63LikesThe New Werks B5 .21 Racing Engine
01-31-2010 | 07:49 PM
#1503
i was intrested in getting this motor for my mugen mbx6t. What would be the best pipe combo the 2013 or 2035?
I run on a big track, im looking for better fuel mileage. I run at revalation, in CA.
also, what kind of fuel mileage are you guys getting on a big track in a truggy/
thanks
I run on a big track, im looking for better fuel mileage. I run at revalation, in CA.
also, what kind of fuel mileage are you guys getting on a big track in a truggy/
thanks
01-31-2010 | 07:51 PM
#1504
Tech Master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,555
From: south carolina
stock losi 2.0-t clutch(green/gold with 4-aluminum shoes) and an ORION 2013 pipe..........had the same INSANE bottom end with both a 2013 and 2035(associated) pipe......temps bout 210-240 after engine/chassis is completely warmed up.....just lookin for a pinch more top end at a sacrifice of a pinch of the bottom end. but, i feel that considering hor outragious this engine is that even with the 15t bell, the bottom end will not be compromised at all...
01-31-2010 | 08:21 PM
#1506
Tech Addict
iTrader: (22)
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 587
The B5 will pull one tooth up clutchbell easy, The losi clutches ar pretty aggresive. You might want to try a 3 shoe setup with 1.0 springs. The 2035 tames the bottom quite a bit. The 2056 will tame it even more and also tame the midrange, The 2056 tmaes the bottom but has great mida nd top end, I run a 2013 in my d8t with dynamite aluminum shoes and mugen 1.0 springs and it is perfect for me, I did try the 2056(baseball bat pipe) and ite really calms down the bottom, a bit too much for me. The 2056 or the 2057 I think will be your best choice for what you are wanting. So I would suggest either change your clutch, or try a 2057 or 2056 pipe. The Whichever you choose. BUt if the 2035 that you tried is way to much bottom still then I am thinking your clutch should be the first tuning step to help smooth out the bottom Hope this helps
01-31-2010 | 08:25 PM
#1507
Tech Addict
iTrader: (22)
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 587
croracer, For a truggy either pipe will work great.I like the punch that the 2013 delivers for a truggy. The 2035 still has great power but a little less punch on the bottom. The mileage WIll be pretty close. I tested the 2035 a couple weeks ago and compared runtimes and they were pretty close, and I actually seemed to get about 20 second s more from the 2013.
01-31-2010 | 08:48 PM
#1510
Tech Adept
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 178
From: savannah
I've read the bulk of this thread but just want to verify before buying twice.....is the orion 2013 (in stock) the same as the werks 2013 (out of stock) or should I just wait for the werks to come back in stock? Thanks
01-31-2010 | 10:34 PM
#1514
Tech Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 79
From: College Station, Tx
Thanks guys,
I had a race this weekend and had an expert tune the engine. He had the engine running great.
The three quailifers(6min) the engine ran great. Then the main came(30min), and the engine would die during the race. Happen three times duirng the race. The engine still has great compression.
I know when the engine was new the engine would idle with no problem. I feel like the engine is close to tune. I know temp outside and etc would effect the tune a little. Just was wondering if you guys think the engine is done.
Thanks
Oh, when I finished the race the temp was 215F. During the fuel pits the temp was always around that temp. I have never run the engine above 220F.
I had a race this weekend and had an expert tune the engine. He had the engine running great.
The three quailifers(6min) the engine ran great. Then the main came(30min), and the engine would die during the race. Happen three times duirng the race. The engine still has great compression.
I know when the engine was new the engine would idle with no problem. I feel like the engine is close to tune. I know temp outside and etc would effect the tune a little. Just was wondering if you guys think the engine is done.
Thanks
Oh, when I finished the race the temp was 215F. During the fuel pits the temp was always around that temp. I have never run the engine above 220F.
I was hoping Ron would answer this....but here are my thoughts from reading all of Ron's posts.
At 5.5 gallons I doubt your engine is spent unless it's been abused for it's whole life. So I'm going to assume that you haven't abused it and it is still in decent condition.
Setting your idle gap at a cc size is the way to go, which you did. However, at 5.5 gallons a flush setting is probably too rich all the way around which you found out because you couldn't get temps up even after driving around for a bit. If you've adjusted the low to the point where you could get a steady idle how long was it steady before cutting off? I would get the engine fired up at whatever low needle setting your at, start driving it to heat saturate the block and chassis, then take a temp reading. If you're still in the 150 F range, start leaning the top 1-2 hrs at a time. During this time do whatever is needed with the throttle to keep the engine running (blip the throttle before it reaches the point where it'd die). With leaning the HSN you are leaning the total amount of fuel available so by default are continuing to lean the fuel at idle or on the lsn. At some point with leaning the HSN, your temps will start to rise. If when getting your temps up with the HSN your idle also starts to rise, then you know you've gotten to a point where there isn't enough fuel being delivered on the LSN and you'd begin to richen the LSN. If you don't ever cause the idle to rise by leaning the HSN and you have a good idle that doesn't die, your done. Or if the idle doesn't hold and the engine does die, lean your LSN some more until you achieve a steady idle that holds.
During this excercise always be sure you're seeing smoke at the exhaust throughout the entire rpm range and have some oil residue on your body and left rear tire. If you've done all of this and still can't get a steady idle, replace your glow plug w/ a brand new one (may actual want to do this first to eliminate the possibility of a bad plug). If the plug is good, start checking for air leaks in your fuel delivery system (tank, fuel lines, exhaust, couplers). If they're all good check for leaks around the carb base, backplate, cooling head and front bearing. Do a soap bubble test...spray a small amount of soapy water/windex to see if bubbles are made, if so, there's an air leak.
I'd also compare w/ my buddy, run the same fuel, being at the same place so atmoshpheric conditions are the same and see where his needles are as a reference.
Fuel, air, and ignition is all it takes for an engine to run. Adjusting needles is adjusting the fuel/air ratio and your glow plug is the ignition. Once you initially apply voltage to it to cause it to glow, the ensuing combustion w/in the chamber keeps it hot enough to continue to provide the spark needed for continued combustion. Air leaks are gremlins which play with your fuel/air mixture and bad fuel is just that...bad.
Good luck, let us know how you make out.
At 5.5 gallons I doubt your engine is spent unless it's been abused for it's whole life. So I'm going to assume that you haven't abused it and it is still in decent condition.
Setting your idle gap at a cc size is the way to go, which you did. However, at 5.5 gallons a flush setting is probably too rich all the way around which you found out because you couldn't get temps up even after driving around for a bit. If you've adjusted the low to the point where you could get a steady idle how long was it steady before cutting off? I would get the engine fired up at whatever low needle setting your at, start driving it to heat saturate the block and chassis, then take a temp reading. If you're still in the 150 F range, start leaning the top 1-2 hrs at a time. During this time do whatever is needed with the throttle to keep the engine running (blip the throttle before it reaches the point where it'd die). With leaning the HSN you are leaning the total amount of fuel available so by default are continuing to lean the fuel at idle or on the lsn. At some point with leaning the HSN, your temps will start to rise. If when getting your temps up with the HSN your idle also starts to rise, then you know you've gotten to a point where there isn't enough fuel being delivered on the LSN and you'd begin to richen the LSN. If you don't ever cause the idle to rise by leaning the HSN and you have a good idle that doesn't die, your done. Or if the idle doesn't hold and the engine does die, lean your LSN some more until you achieve a steady idle that holds.
During this excercise always be sure you're seeing smoke at the exhaust throughout the entire rpm range and have some oil residue on your body and left rear tire. If you've done all of this and still can't get a steady idle, replace your glow plug w/ a brand new one (may actual want to do this first to eliminate the possibility of a bad plug). If the plug is good, start checking for air leaks in your fuel delivery system (tank, fuel lines, exhaust, couplers). If they're all good check for leaks around the carb base, backplate, cooling head and front bearing. Do a soap bubble test...spray a small amount of soapy water/windex to see if bubbles are made, if so, there's an air leak.
I'd also compare w/ my buddy, run the same fuel, being at the same place so atmoshpheric conditions are the same and see where his needles are as a reference.
Fuel, air, and ignition is all it takes for an engine to run. Adjusting needles is adjusting the fuel/air ratio and your glow plug is the ignition. Once you initially apply voltage to it to cause it to glow, the ensuing combustion w/in the chamber keeps it hot enough to continue to provide the spark needed for continued combustion. Air leaks are gremlins which play with your fuel/air mixture and bad fuel is just that...bad.
Good luck, let us know how you make out.
02-01-2010 | 04:33 AM
#1515
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 786
Thanks guys,
I had a race this weekend and had an expert tune the engine. He had the engine running great.
The three quailifers(6min) the engine ran great. Then the main came(30min), and the engine would die during the race. Happen three times duirng the race. The engine still has great compression.
I know when the engine was new the engine would idle with no problem. I feel like the engine is close to tune. I know temp outside and etc would effect the tune a little. Just was wondering if you guys think the engine is done.
Thanks
Oh, when I finished the race the temp was 215F. During the fuel pits the temp was always around that temp. I have never run the engine above 220F.
I had a race this weekend and had an expert tune the engine. He had the engine running great.
The three quailifers(6min) the engine ran great. Then the main came(30min), and the engine would die during the race. Happen three times duirng the race. The engine still has great compression.
I know when the engine was new the engine would idle with no problem. I feel like the engine is close to tune. I know temp outside and etc would effect the tune a little. Just was wondering if you guys think the engine is done.
Thanks
Oh, when I finished the race the temp was 215F. During the fuel pits the temp was always around that temp. I have never run the engine above 220F.
* Check your fuel lines for small holes, especially around the throttle linkage.
* Replace your glowplug.
* Your idle may have dropped during the main as the chassis and engine mount saturates with heat.
* Take your clutch bell off and make sure the shoes don't have excessive wear or burs. I got bit by this one once and it managed to take 2 clutch bells and a spur gear before I realized the shoes were uneven and engaging at different times causing the bell to wobble under load, the bearings to break, and ultimately affect the gear mesh.
Good luck in solving your problem.