Apologies for the confusion sundance ...


My only interest to help you and have more fun with your Sc10 4x4 ...

Not prove who's a expert or promote after market parts ...

Best bet for you sundance is to do what I and others did after getting a variety of info on the part, test it yourself and see what you think.

No proof needed I am an expert, its obvious by your post that you are a novice. Do you run associated tires or aftermarket tires? what about your ESC is it Associated or aftermarket? and your body i think AE makes a body too but im pretty sure your is not. So you see old grasshopper even YOU run aftermarket parts........

I'll try to help you with the Rollcenter and this info is not what i read in a setup book, but what has worked for me and also what makes the most sense to me.

You have to look at the rollcenter together with your camberlink length. Both highering the inner ball stud and making the camber link shorter provide more negative camber gain when the suspension is compressed. (what happens to the outer tires when you drive into a corner).
Now if you want to stop rolling over in corners, you have to identify the cause for your rolling first:
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1) traction rolling -> when car rolls only in high speed corners, it will be most likely that. You just have too much traction

2) too soft tire flank/edge -> very sudden rolling in every situation. It's caused by the edge of the tire being too soft. When the car drives into the turn, all the weight is shifted to the outside causing the suspension to compress, that means the car drives on the outer flank of the tire:



- other reason that has to do with f/r weight transfer mid corner, which i don't understand yet. try stiffer front springs

3) too aggressive handling -> the car is way too aggressive and you just steer too much, try thicker front oil

4) tire flank has too much grip -> very similar to Nr.1. Not as sudden as Nr.1 because the grip stays the same and is not applied suddenly when the tire flank is compressed. Most likely seen with fresh Minipins or worn tires.
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When you have identified the cause of your rolling, you can try to "fight" it and that's where camber comes into play. Further up I said that lower roll center basically means more camber gain. In Nr. 2 and 4 you can use that very good to prevent rolling. In both situations the outer part of the tire has too much grip in the corner. Now we have two ways to work against that.

-We can higher the roll center which means more camber gain and therefore that the middle part of the tire has more soil contact than the outer part. On a tire that has a profile that is the same overall the tire (like Schumacher Minipin or DBoots Terrabyte), this will reduce rolling because the tire is usually more worn in the middle part and therefore also has less grip in the middle.

-We can also lower the roll center which means less camber gain and therefore that the outer part of the tire has more soil contact. You will ask now: "how can that help when the outer part of the tire IS the problem?" Well, many tires like Schumacher Minipin and DBoots Terrabyte can be cut So you cut the outer profile of the tire (like 1 or 2 rows on the Minipin) and basically have good grip in the middle of the tire (forward grip) and a slick that can slide in the outer part of the tire. (corner grip). That is very good: As soon as the car is about to roll over, it drives on the flank of the tire where no profile is and can drift through the corner because it doesn't have enough traction to roll over. You can also kinda adjust how much the car has to roll before it slides via normal camber setup, as the car has to roll more until it reaches the slick-part without profile when you use -3° instead of for example -1°.

Now only case 1 is left: you can do 2 things to prevent that "traction rolling" (many people also use that term for other causes of rolling), either reducing the overall grip or limiting the weight transfer. You can reduce the weight transfer by limiting the droop or using a thicker arb. (antirollbar). Less droop has usually a bigger effect, but i'd recommend to use a thicker swaybar as it does the same thing but only in corners so you keep your droop over jumps, bumps and f/r weight transfer.

Interesting post Cody

When ever I have traction roll over's ?

I just lower the truck 1mm in the rear ....

C-hub is not a cure but helps ....
Truck will stay flat in the corners when running on high traction conditions.

Thats pretty good generalization but dont confuse camber gain with Roll center. Roll center will actually control how the body "rolls" which has nothing to do with camber gain which is a side effect of roll center adjustments.
short link and high roll center will give massive amounts of camber gain but with low amounts of body roll where as long link high roll center will give low amounts of camber gains but with a lot of body roll. You can gain traction from body roll in one setting and by camber gain on another!

Yes i know it can get confusing!

lol. Very true! I know most guys me included would just want to know "put X here, does Y" with it being maybe that long too!

I am now using lowest roll center and longest camberlink possible on my RC8 to get the least camber gain (because i want it to slide on the cut profile/tire edge), so would it be technically better to have a high roll center and even longer camber link to get the same effect but with less body roll or not?

Ballast Weight


Some use none at all , most run some ..


Almost all the team drivers are using ballast on the nose .
It helps smooth out the steering, keeps the nose down, adds on power steering ...



Ae's drivers are using
1 1/2 oz on each side of the servo , 1/4 oz on front corner of
chassis in next to battery .
1 oz on the back of the rear saddle pack .

when using a 550 motor some use a 1/2 oz next to the spur gear to help offset the 550 additional weight ...



Shorty Pack Ballast suggestions..

If you have trouble sawing off corners ?
add 3/4 oz <> 1 1/2 oz on each side of servo ....

I have heard people say they use blue fronts in the rear. how does this help? why not just use blue rears?

a lot of it comes down for those of who use blue fronts on the rear what kind of weight you have the vehicle at and conditions being used. Blue fronts are stiffer than Blue rears significantly.

Me personally when running indoors carpet, using even the heaviest rear spring didn't provide me with enough suspension action through a rumble section they setup. The vehicle would basically dive into the ruts and get kicked around. Indoors carpet, I would use blue fronts on the rear for this and found that around the rest of the track the truck felt "right" for a lack of a better word. Transitioned much better.

Outdoors, I was down I believe to the green or white fronts on the rear to get the same kind of quick action but better suited for the conditions. Mind you, I was running an exotek chassis for more added weight on the vehicle at the lowest point of the vehicle. A buddy of mine though running an sc10 4x4 at the time without the chassis liked I believe white fronts (whatever the next lowest spring is from blue) indoors carpet.

A lot of it comes down to trial and error, and what you find will work for you. Considering the cost of front springs and how easy the mod is to do, its worth trying to see what you think.

Since we're talking about Front springs on the rear ...I've finished resurrecting my SC10 4x4 and have put the Green front springs on the rear and found that I can't quite get to 24mm ride height that's been suggested to me. Is this most people's experience running the shorter front springs on the back? I'm measuring my ride height from the back edge of the centre chassis section...is that correct? Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Mike

IMO you are making changes for the wrong reasons. in order for camber gain to effect anything body roll has to happen. Camber gain is only a side effect of Roll Center. The links control how the body rolls "into the camber gain". high roll center (lowering the inside points) will give you more initial bite and less on exit,has nothing to do with camber gain which only takes effect after or during weight transfer. Remember that whatever camber gain you have on the outside wheel it does the opposite on the inside so any grip enhancements you get on the outside is eliminated on the inside! this is why "roll center" is so important, how the chassis rolls determines grip between the inside and outside. A long link will not give you much camber gain but the inside wheel will also not go as much positive gain so your overall grip is higher this is why long links increase traction.

Mike

yes
you are using the correct position for measuring ride height ....

another point of view on the springs


Instead of using front springs on the rear , try a stiffer rear spring first ...


If Ae 13mm red rear is not stiff enough ?

Look for another brand " rear" spring that is stiffer for the best rate & performance .
Front spring rates are very stiff & not designed
for a rear suspension . .

I just started to read the Hudy setup guide , so think i will soon start to figure out how everything works