2LikesTekno RC EB48 Thread
07-14-2012 | 10:07 PM
#871
Suspended
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 521
Right Rear = 833 (43.4%)
Left Rear = 1087 (56.6%)
Difference = 254g (>9oz)
Right Front = 1025 (55.3%
Left Front = 827 (44.7%)
Difference = 198g (>7oz)
Diagonal
Right Rear + Left Front = 1660g (~44%)
Left Rear + Right Front = 2112g (~56%)
Difference = 452g (>16oz, more than one pound different)
07-14-2012 | 10:10 PM
#872
Serpent owners need to stop harassing this thread. You guys have made your objections and stated your issues, but I don't think that the wonderful people from Tekno should have to respond to some of the silly posts that have been made(although they have done a great job with responding truthfully and with respect). There is no need to bash a buggy that hasn't even come out.
Regarding this layout war, I think very few people on this forum have done as much testing on dual v.s. single packs as Tekno. They have strong evidence to say the single pack layout is better(IN THEIR OPINION). No one ever said the 811be was bad, but if your on the Tekno EB48 thread, you can expect us to say that the EB48 is better. I also expect to hear that the Serpent is the best when I'm on the 811 thread.
IN MY OPINION of course a buggy that weighs well over 8lbs is going to be planted and hard to unsettle. It will also most likely be a tank in terms of strength, but heavy things crash harder. I don't think Serpent is the money saver's choice for r/c. Maybe if you race 1/10 and are willing to run two packs that have been discharged seprately and risk running them together it might be cheaper.
A $70,000 Corvette will always be faster than a $700,000 Rolls Royce and I think that it's just hard for Serpent fanboys to get that.
BTW competition has bread a better result and that result is the EB48......BOOM
I apologise if this post has offended any of the Serpent owners who do not hate on other people's buggies. I'm sorry I brought your car into this.
Regarding this layout war, I think very few people on this forum have done as much testing on dual v.s. single packs as Tekno. They have strong evidence to say the single pack layout is better(IN THEIR OPINION). No one ever said the 811be was bad, but if your on the Tekno EB48 thread, you can expect us to say that the EB48 is better. I also expect to hear that the Serpent is the best when I'm on the 811 thread.
IN MY OPINION of course a buggy that weighs well over 8lbs is going to be planted and hard to unsettle. It will also most likely be a tank in terms of strength, but heavy things crash harder. I don't think Serpent is the money saver's choice for r/c. Maybe if you race 1/10 and are willing to run two packs that have been discharged seprately and risk running them together it might be cheaper.
A $70,000 Corvette will always be faster than a $700,000 Rolls Royce and I think that it's just hard for Serpent fanboys to get that.
BTW competition has bread a better result and that result is the EB48......BOOM
I apologise if this post has offended any of the Serpent owners who do not hate on other people's buggies. I'm sorry I brought your car into this.
I also think Tekno has a solid performer, I've always liked there conversions . Stop being so defensive its a open forum people will chime in just as others geez its a discussion.
The serpent has been out for about a year its been a game changer everything about its design was thought out for one purpose balance and performance when someone makes a bold claim people will question its the nature of the best.
Serpent makes race cars they make specific cars for each class not a company that makes a nitro car then sells conversion why because you cannot beat a specific developed platform. There isnt many companies out there will to do this because of cost and time that's why I driver for serpent they do it the correct way.
Serpent has been in the race scene way before Tekno they sell a lot of KITS not conversion and I'm glad Tekno has stepped up to the plate but as they experienced its not easy when you want to do it right. Time will tell it's not even out so making performance claims are super easy time will tell . All I know is Tekno sells conversions not kits this is their first production kit they're doing it the correct way so I expect great things and look forward to seeing it at the track.
07-14-2012 | 11:16 PM
#873
Not to rub anyone but my caster i have it balance front to back within an oz with just moving a battery pack 1mm backwards. The side to side was 4.3 oz of difference. Then i took off the motor brace and was within 1.6 oz. So the 16 oz of variance seems a bit much.
07-15-2012 | 04:31 AM
#874
with 2s packs, I can share them with 1/10 scale... (not sure why this is 'bad' to do .. never heard of that.. ) where as a single pack you can't. so that's the cost savings I was thinking of, not so much the cost of a single pack comparison, but the total amount you would need to race at the track. Currently I have 6 2s packs, and I have run them in my friends 1/10 scale cars no prob.
I never really considered that people 'forgetting' about charging their packs... most people seem pretty good about monitoring their chargers in case of a fire.
_
To do this correctly, you should always use two packs together so they stay as matched as possible. Hyperion dual chargers have a mode where they will charge two packs as a single matched pack (the balancer will equalize both packs as a single pack). The electronics companies would also have to make ESC's that have dual cutoff circuits that plug into the balance taps of the 2S packs.
07-15-2012 | 04:37 AM
#875
Another note of interest.
The best way you can measure the balance of a car is with two scales and a fulcrum. This will prevent you from measuring the tweak of the suspension.
Put the scales under the front wheels and the fulcrum in the center of the rear end of the chassis. Mark down the numbers. Do the same with the scales under the rear wheels and the fulcrum up front.
The best way you can measure the balance of a car is with two scales and a fulcrum. This will prevent you from measuring the tweak of the suspension.
Put the scales under the front wheels and the fulcrum in the center of the rear end of the chassis. Mark down the numbers. Do the same with the scales under the rear wheels and the fulcrum up front.
07-15-2012 | 08:14 AM
#876
Tech Adept
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 145
From: Michigan
Harassment when some claims something then people will ask questions its simple. The serpent owners chimed in because of the neobuggy article its stated facts verses single and dual packs. As you can see I drive a Serpent its a awesome performer in all categories its one of the best dual pack plateform even Tekno agrees. Is a single pack better well I beg to differ is having the lightest kit mean its the best NO it can add more headaches if not done correctly.
I also think Tekno has a solid performer, I've always liked there conversions . Stop being so defensive its a open forum people will chime in just as others geez its a discussion.
The serpent has been out for about a year its been a game changer everything about its design was thought out for one purpose balance and performance when someone makes a bold claim people will question its the nature of the best.
Serpent makes race cars they make specific cars for each class not a company that makes a nitro car then sells conversion why because you cannot beat a specific developed platform. There isnt many companies out there will to do this because of cost and time that's why I driver for serpent they do it the correct way.
Serpent has been in the race scene way before Tekno they sell a lot of KITS not conversion and I'm glad Tekno has stepped up to the plate but as they experienced its not easy when you want to do it right. Time will tell it's not even out so making performance claims are super easy time will tell . All I know is Tekno sells conversions not kits this is their first production kit they're doing it the correct way so I expect great things and look forward to seeing it at the track.
I also think Tekno has a solid performer, I've always liked there conversions . Stop being so defensive its a open forum people will chime in just as others geez its a discussion.
The serpent has been out for about a year its been a game changer everything about its design was thought out for one purpose balance and performance when someone makes a bold claim people will question its the nature of the best.
Serpent makes race cars they make specific cars for each class not a company that makes a nitro car then sells conversion why because you cannot beat a specific developed platform. There isnt many companies out there will to do this because of cost and time that's why I driver for serpent they do it the correct way.
Serpent has been in the race scene way before Tekno they sell a lot of KITS not conversion and I'm glad Tekno has stepped up to the plate but as they experienced its not easy when you want to do it right. Time will tell it's not even out so making performance claims are super easy time will tell . All I know is Tekno sells conversions not kits this is their first production kit they're doing it the correct way so I expect great things and look forward to seeing it at the track.
07-15-2012 | 09:33 AM
#877
I have nothing against Serpent or any of the other cars out on the market. In fact I have only driven a handful of the many 1/8 scales out, so many cars (including the 811) I have no reason to be negative towards. I'm sorry If my earlier post offended you or was negative towards the car you race. We all have opinions, including you and me. And as you said we all have the right to post on this forum including you and me. Lets put the drama behind us and continue enjoying the hobby.
07-15-2012 | 10:51 AM
#878
Big Jay, please review the numbers below. The 811e is pretty badly out of balance. Clearly it was designed with something else in mind as I cannot believe that a company that makes things of the quality that Serpent does would try for balance and miss by that much.
Thanks for the comments. At the end of our article we mentioned about the motor and battery and how far they are away from center will affect the final balance. Honestly, the Serpent buggy is the best dual pack layout buggy because the ESC is far out on the right to balance out the motor better.
But others that put the ESC on the center diff or above the batteries really suffer (hence the article).
One thing I would note on the scale readings on the Serpent however is the difference (balance) between individual wheels.
Yes, when you add both the left tires vs. the right tires you come up with a good balance. And also when you add both the front tires vs. the rear tires. But the readings between diagonal pairs varies quite a bit. This will result in inconsistency. So, here's another critical measurement to look at.
---------------
Serpent 811Be:
Right Rear = 833 (43.4%)
Left Rear = 1087 (56.6%)
Difference = 254g (>9oz)
Right Front = 1025 (55.3%
Left Front = 827 (44.7%)
Difference = 198g (>7oz)
Diagonal
Right Rear + Left Front = 1660g (~44%)
Left Rear + Right Front = 2112g (~56%)
Difference = 452g (>16oz, more than one pound different)
Total weight: 3772g (8.298lb)
----------------
Tekno RC EB48:
Right Rear = 860 (49.7%)
Left Rear = 870 (50.3%)
Difference = 10g (.36oz)
Right Front = 820 (51.2%)
Left Front = 780 (48.8%)
Difference = 40g (1.43oz)
Diagonal
Right Rear + Left Front = 1640g (49.2%)
Left Rear + Right Front = 1690g (50.8%)
Difference = 50g (1.79oz)
Total weight: 3330g (7.326lb)
---------------
Given the above numbers based on the two (non-USDA certified
) scale readings for the two cars, you can see that the EB48 is well balanced left/right, front/back and also on the diagonal. The Serpent, while well balanced left/right and front/back has a very heavy left-rear and right-front to the tune of over a 1lb difference when compared with the other diagonal pair of wheel measurements. That's a lot of weight that is not in balance.
The other notable measurement is overall weight. The Serpent is almost 1lb heavier than the EB48. I realize some of the equipment is different, but we've weighed a couple other Serpents around here and all of them were about 1lb heavier with similar equipment.
We sincerely appreciate your post and comments as it really brought another aspect of balance to light. We're definitely not hating on any of the other cars or companies out there. We're simply trying to show (what we think is) an even better way of designing a 1/8th electric buggy. We hope you'll agree and share this info with other Serpent and dual pack owners.
Thanks!
But others that put the ESC on the center diff or above the batteries really suffer (hence the article).
One thing I would note on the scale readings on the Serpent however is the difference (balance) between individual wheels.
Yes, when you add both the left tires vs. the right tires you come up with a good balance. And also when you add both the front tires vs. the rear tires. But the readings between diagonal pairs varies quite a bit. This will result in inconsistency. So, here's another critical measurement to look at.
---------------
Serpent 811Be:
Right Rear = 833 (43.4%)
Left Rear = 1087 (56.6%)
Difference = 254g (>9oz)
Right Front = 1025 (55.3%
Left Front = 827 (44.7%)
Difference = 198g (>7oz)
Diagonal
Right Rear + Left Front = 1660g (~44%)
Left Rear + Right Front = 2112g (~56%)
Difference = 452g (>16oz, more than one pound different)
Total weight: 3772g (8.298lb)
----------------
Tekno RC EB48:
Right Rear = 860 (49.7%)
Left Rear = 870 (50.3%)
Difference = 10g (.36oz)
Right Front = 820 (51.2%)
Left Front = 780 (48.8%)
Difference = 40g (1.43oz)
Diagonal
Right Rear + Left Front = 1640g (49.2%)
Left Rear + Right Front = 1690g (50.8%)
Difference = 50g (1.79oz)
Total weight: 3330g (7.326lb)
---------------
Given the above numbers based on the two (non-USDA certified
) scale readings for the two cars, you can see that the EB48 is well balanced left/right, front/back and also on the diagonal. The Serpent, while well balanced left/right and front/back has a very heavy left-rear and right-front to the tune of over a 1lb difference when compared with the other diagonal pair of wheel measurements. That's a lot of weight that is not in balance.The other notable measurement is overall weight. The Serpent is almost 1lb heavier than the EB48. I realize some of the equipment is different, but we've weighed a couple other Serpents around here and all of them were about 1lb heavier with similar equipment.
We sincerely appreciate your post and comments as it really brought another aspect of balance to light. We're definitely not hating on any of the other cars or companies out there. We're simply trying to show (what we think is) an even better way of designing a 1/8th electric buggy. We hope you'll agree and share this info with other Serpent and dual pack owners.
Thanks!
07-15-2012 | 11:25 AM
#879
The car tested was tweaked, not out of balance. Again, you can not check balance of a car on scales with shocks on the car. If spring rates are not identical at each wheel, your readings are wrong. You will have just figured out that the tweak is off.
Springs are progressive which means as they are compressed, the spring rate increases. So if the shocks are not compressed to yield identical spring rates, This doesnt work. Also, if you get the spring rates identical, the ride height may not be perfectly level, which again, throws the whole test off. The Serpent is a balanced car and from the looks of it, the EB48 should be also. I cant say for certain on the EB48 as i do not have one in my hands.
The balance argument really is getting out of hand. Its not even a selling point as far as im concerned because the Serpent is balanced also. The thing that stands out on the EB48 for me is its light weight. That is what makes me want to give it a whirl.
Springs are progressive which means as they are compressed, the spring rate increases. So if the shocks are not compressed to yield identical spring rates, This doesnt work. Also, if you get the spring rates identical, the ride height may not be perfectly level, which again, throws the whole test off. The Serpent is a balanced car and from the looks of it, the EB48 should be also. I cant say for certain on the EB48 as i do not have one in my hands.
The balance argument really is getting out of hand. Its not even a selling point as far as im concerned because the Serpent is balanced also. The thing that stands out on the EB48 for me is its light weight. That is what makes me want to give it a whirl.
07-15-2012 | 11:40 PM
#881
07-16-2012 | 12:03 AM
#882
David if read the prior post to this one then you wouldn't have known Tekno response to my postN I'm fully aware. As stated there a many variables could some make a serpent have less tolerances expecially if were doing a article sure and I agree this is getting old this isn't my kit is better then yours. The facts are the serpent is a balanced roller is it perfect NO - I'm looking for to Teknos release.
07-16-2012 | 08:50 AM
#885
I would love to hear more about his experience running mechanical brakes. Thanks!