Transponders
11-22-2013 | 08:23 AM
#46
Why? Because no one else is willing to invest the time and money to develop a competing product? How is that MyLaps fault? What is MyLaps doing to ensure that they have a monopoly on the market? They're not stopping anyone from developing their own scoring system are they? There are others out there now, we all know that. Trouble is, well....they suck to be honest, compared to MyLaps/AMB.
See also: MRT transponders...
Compatible with the AMB decoder, doesn't infringe on any patents, etc.
11-22-2013 | 08:30 AM
#47
11-22-2013 | 08:36 AM
#48
I don't understand what anyone's financial situation has to do with the cost of items in our HOBBY? If we were discussing the cost of the basic necessities NEEDED for survival maybe.
Why blame MyLaps in the first place, for coming out with a new decoder? They did it to protect their investment. Companies do it all the time. If you owned MyLaps what would you do, nothing? And just let MRT ride your coat tails, cutting into your profits by basically ripping off/copying your product? If you say yes, you're a liar, and would be a piss pour businessman. If you're going to blame anyone for doing what MyLaps did, blame MRT, and everyone who bought one.
A $100 PT that lasts 5+ years, maybe even 10 years. How much would you pay for a PT that only lasted 6 months? $10? A set of tires only last most of us a week, and we pay more than 10 bucks a set for those.
Even if you could get a $10 PT that lasted 6 months, in 5 years you just paid 20% more for the same thing we have now.
Even if a PT cost the same to produce as a set of tires. Tires, along with many other items we buy are a consumable product. A PT really isn't, we buy one and it last us YEARS. And after that we sell it and re coupe 50%+ of our investment.
PT's are a niche market, with a very limited sales volume compared to just about everything else we buy. A tire company can figure they're going to sell 100k pairs of tires that they may invest say 15k dollars into molds and R&D. If MyLaps knows they're only going sell 10K PT's at best, a year, and those 10K will remain in use for years to come simple business sense tells you that to remain profitable they're going to have to charge a higher mark up.
I've made posts like this in many other "PT" threads. What happens, the thread dies because no body ever tries to argue my point. Do I wish a PT was $50 and not $100, sure who wouldn't. But if you put a little thought into it and look at the business side you'll realize why they can't or don't.
Actual sales numbers would obviously not be correct but you get the point.
Why blame MyLaps in the first place, for coming out with a new decoder? They did it to protect their investment. Companies do it all the time. If you owned MyLaps what would you do, nothing? And just let MRT ride your coat tails, cutting into your profits by basically ripping off/copying your product? If you say yes, you're a liar, and would be a piss pour businessman. If you're going to blame anyone for doing what MyLaps did, blame MRT, and everyone who bought one.
A $100 PT that lasts 5+ years, maybe even 10 years. How much would you pay for a PT that only lasted 6 months? $10? A set of tires only last most of us a week, and we pay more than 10 bucks a set for those.
Even if you could get a $10 PT that lasted 6 months, in 5 years you just paid 20% more for the same thing we have now.
Even if a PT cost the same to produce as a set of tires. Tires, along with many other items we buy are a consumable product. A PT really isn't, we buy one and it last us YEARS. And after that we sell it and re coupe 50%+ of our investment.
PT's are a niche market, with a very limited sales volume compared to just about everything else we buy. A tire company can figure they're going to sell 100k pairs of tires that they may invest say 15k dollars into molds and R&D. If MyLaps knows they're only going sell 10K PT's at best, a year, and those 10K will remain in use for years to come simple business sense tells you that to remain profitable they're going to have to charge a higher mark up.
I've made posts like this in many other "PT" threads. What happens, the thread dies because no body ever tries to argue my point. Do I wish a PT was $50 and not $100, sure who wouldn't. But if you put a little thought into it and look at the business side you'll realize why they can't or don't.
Actual sales numbers would obviously not be correct but you get the point.
As a consumer that is not only alarming, but upsetting and downright wrong. Instead of punishing those of us who supported their product rather than buy rip-off clones, they're just sticking it to us. I make High-End Paintball Triggers and I go above and beyond to ensure the service and courtesy my customers receive is along the lines of how I expect to be treated as a faithful customer myself.
While I believe PT's could and should carry a lower price tag, I realize you get what you pay for which is why I went with genuine AMB/MyLaps, and if they should decide to render the products I invested in as obsolete, I think I have every right to be pissed off and irate.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that no one should be comfortable with companies playing with their money in this fashion.
11-22-2013 | 08:37 AM
#50
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,743
From: RIP 'Chopper', 4/18/13 miss you bud:(
It is, or was, a compatible product. Is MyLaps not allowed to make changes to their own system, for whatever reason? If those changes render MRT's obsolete is that MyLaps fault or issue? You obviously support MRT, I don't, fine not the issue. Can you honestly blame MyLaps for doing what they did from a business standpoint?
We also need to remember that neither of these companies are based in the US so our patent laws don't apply to them
We also need to remember that neither of these companies are based in the US so our patent laws don't apply to them
11-22-2013 | 08:41 AM
#51
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,743
From: RIP 'Chopper', 4/18/13 miss you bud:(
11-22-2013 | 08:44 AM
#52
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,743
From: RIP 'Chopper', 4/18/13 miss you bud:(
@ incubus..I have 4 of the AMB PT's as well....and it would a tough kick in the shorts if they became obsolete at some point. Based on what has happened in the last year I would think it would be a few more years before that would happen and I would consider my 4 Pt's well bought and paid for at that point.
11-22-2013 | 08:45 AM
#53
What if tekin/novak/lrp/castle announced that their esc's would stop working with other manufacturers motors, you needed to send them in to 'update' them for $50, and if you didn't, they would stop working?
Everyone would stop buying them and move to another manufacture.
We don't have that option with mylaps. Nearly every track in the world was raped by mylaps for $330+ because there are no other options.
Everyone would stop buying them and move to another manufacture.
We don't have that option with mylaps. Nearly every track in the world was raped by mylaps for $330+ because there are no other options.
11-22-2013 | 09:02 AM
#54
People who are upset with MyLaps all you have to do is open your own company to develop a competing product. Put everything you own on the line, take out loans, invest your own money and hire a team of people. Then when you have a competing product all you have to sue is market it.
Sounds easy, what are you waiting for?
I'm not going to take that risk, therefor I'll pay the $100 for a PT.
Sounds easy, what are you waiting for?
I'm not going to take that risk, therefor I'll pay the $100 for a PT.
11-22-2013 | 09:06 AM
#55
What if tekin/novak/lrp/castle announced that their esc's would stop working with other manufacturers motors, you needed to send them in to 'update' them for $50, and if you didn't, they would stop working?
Everyone would stop buying them and move to another manufacture.
We don't have that option with mylaps. Nearly every track in the world was raped by mylaps for $330+ because there are no other options.
Everyone would stop buying them and move to another manufacture.
We don't have that option with mylaps. Nearly every track in the world was raped by mylaps for $330+ because there are no other options.
Did MyLaps offer a decoder and say "will work with any other transponders" and then down the road change so that it only works with their decoder? No, they sold a decoder that's compatible with THEIR transponders and it's still compatible with their transponders.
I bought a used transponder back in 2006 that my son uses to this day, it's at least 8 years old and it works flawlessly whenever he races. What, in this hobby, can you buy for $100 and in 8 years still works without issue? If that transponder stops working in the next year or two I'll buy a new one because in the grand scheme of things that thing cost me about $10 a year to own. You can't even buy a set of tires today for less than $10 and they'll only last you a month if your lucky.
Last edited by EricW; 11-22-2013 at 09:16 AM.
11-22-2013 | 09:20 AM
#56
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,743
From: RIP 'Chopper', 4/18/13 miss you bud:(
I'm still waiting for someone to argue the business aspect of the whole thing..
If you can't fault MyLaps from a business standpoint, how can you really complain?
I personally have a dollar figure that makes a PT a product I won't buy based on the use and "perceived value" I get from it, but it's well above a hundred bucks. Based on a product I can use for many years.
I'm always willing to debate points, just don't focus on one aspect. Look big picture...Address the many points I made in my original post..
If you can't fault MyLaps from a business standpoint, how can you really complain?
I personally have a dollar figure that makes a PT a product I won't buy based on the use and "perceived value" I get from it, but it's well above a hundred bucks. Based on a product I can use for many years.
I'm always willing to debate points, just don't focus on one aspect. Look big picture...Address the many points I made in my original post..
11-22-2013 | 09:28 AM
#57
It is, or was, a compatible product. Is MyLaps not allowed to make changes to their own system, for whatever reason? If those changes render MRT's obsolete is that MyLaps fault or issue? You obviously support MRT, I don't, fine not the issue. Can you honestly blame MyLaps for doing what they did from a business standpoint?
We also need to remember that neither of these companies are based in the US so our patent laws don't apply to them
We also need to remember that neither of these companies are based in the US so our patent laws don't apply to them
I'm still waiting for someone to argue the business aspect of the whole thing.
If you can't fault MyLaps from a business standpoint, how can you really complain?
I personally have a dollar figure that makes a PT a product I won't buy based on the use and "perceived value" I get from it, but it's well above a hundred bucks. Based on a product I can use for many years.
I'm always willing to debate points, just don't focus on one aspect. Look big picture...Address the many points I made in my original post..
If you can't fault MyLaps from a business standpoint, how can you really complain?
I personally have a dollar figure that makes a PT a product I won't buy based on the use and "perceived value" I get from it, but it's well above a hundred bucks. Based on a product I can use for many years.
I'm always willing to debate points, just don't focus on one aspect. Look big picture...Address the many points I made in my original post..
@EricW,
Please reference all my previous posts in here to understand the validity of my concerns and issues with MyLaps. None of what I've posted is in any way absurd or off base. As well, I too have paid $100 for my PT's, but would prefer they didn't cost that much. Nothing wrong with that. No one goes to an automobile dealership with the mindset of I'm so going to pay sticker price for that baby and like it!!!
To further drive my point in the hopes some of you realize what's most concerning about this in my eyes…
It takes considerably more R&D and engineering to produce an OLED monitor (it's in the tens of millions) and the cost for production trumps a little transponder about ten thousand fold. Yet, I can buy a monitor of this type for $5 less than a damn transponder? That should make sense to no one!
You guys make it seem like Lap timing systems are some super high tech space age technology when in fact it's quite simple. A sensor than registers when a transponder passes over it. Wow Rocket Science. I realize AMB/MyLaps took the initiative to develop and standardize their systems for a broad range of competition, including RC, but to suggest a transponder @ $120 is not overpriced is preposterous. Yes they are a business and as such they are in it to make money, which is totally understandable, but I am also educated enough to know how much things cost to produce.
And I don't have short arms and deep pockets. Just someone who works hard to earn a living and am cautious as to how I spend my pennies.
11-22-2013 | 09:46 AM
#58
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,743
From: RIP 'Chopper', 4/18/13 miss you bud:(
MRT fans, spin it this way. They (MRT) spent nothing on development of their product, only the cost to copy, as best they could and they obviously couldn't get it perfect, MyLaps. They likely make more money per PT than MyLaps does. Who's sticking it in your butt deeper? MyLaps or MRT..?
11-22-2013 | 10:02 AM
#59
MRT fans, spin it this way. They (MRT) spent nothing on development of their product, only the cost to copy, as best they could and they obviously couldn't get it perfect, MyLaps. They likely make more money per PT than MyLaps does. Who's sticking it in your butt deeper? MyLaps or MRT..?
There is nothing similar(circuit wise) between the AMB and MRT transponders.
MRT spent the time and money to develop a transponder that was compatible with a product that was widely used.
The iphone was the 'first' smart phone, samsung, google, HTC, copied apple.
Do you own a iphone because everything else is just a copy?
11-22-2013 | 10:13 AM
#60
There is nothing similar(circuit wise) between the AMB and MRT transponders.
MRT spent the time and money to develop a transponder that was compatible with a product that was widely used.
The iphone was the 'first' smart phone, samsung, google, HTC, copied apple.
Do you own a iphone because everything else is just a copy?
MRT spent the time and money to develop a transponder that was compatible with a product that was widely used.
The iphone was the 'first' smart phone, samsung, google, HTC, copied apple.
Do you own a iphone because everything else is just a copy?
(And BTW, Apple didn't have the first smart phone, IBM did)