Transponders
11-21-2013 | 10:34 AM
#31
Now THAT'S a huge relief!!!
I have 4 of the AMBrc DP's and that's $400 I just threw out if they decided to phase them out. I've been wanting to upgrade to the RC4 hybrid but their discount is literally an insult of the most epic proportions and a downright joke if you ask me. You can score Hybrids for $89 here and there when sales pop up. A fair price for the swap/upgrade would be $30 for 1-2 units and $20 per for 3 or more units.
I have 4 of the AMBrc DP's and that's $400 I just threw out if they decided to phase them out. I've been wanting to upgrade to the RC4 hybrid but their discount is literally an insult of the most epic proportions and a downright joke if you ask me. You can score Hybrids for $89 here and there when sales pop up. A fair price for the swap/upgrade would be $30 for 1-2 units and $20 per for 3 or more units.
11-21-2013 | 10:58 AM
#32
11-21-2013 | 05:15 PM
#35
Tech Master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,162
From: Monroe, GA USA
It's a bit comical how people cry over the cost of transponder yet have no problems paying, and even bragging how much they pay for other R/C related products. "Yeah man, I paid $750 for this nitro motor but worth every penny!" then they blow it up after a half dozen races and brag about that, turn around and do it again without thinking twice! How much does it cost Tekin to make that $200 speedo? Don't hear any bitching about that!
Why doesn't MRT come out with their own decoder system and transponders? Probably because they make more money riding on MyLaps back! And they probably spend less making the "clone" than MyLaps spends.
Why doesn't MRT come out with their own decoder system and transponders? Probably because they make more money riding on MyLaps back! And they probably spend less making the "clone" than MyLaps spends.
11-21-2013 | 10:48 PM
#36
First of all Bob, there is nothing comical about this, and not everyone who partakes in this hobby willingly spends as much money as possible and brags about it. I am the sole bread winner in my home and in case you've missed it, it's much harder to live on a single salary today than it was for the past several dozen generations.
I do a whole lot of communicating with many people who are much more in the know about products in the industry and rather than opting for the most expensive high-end ESC's, Motors and equipment, I go for products who's performance is up to par with those more expensive brands at a considerably lower price point. And not because I'm a cheap-o, but because I know that just because a product is less expensive doesn't mean it is indeed of lesser quality or lacks performance. In fact, being as many of those absurdly priced products are actually made by the same people producing the less expensive ones, more often than people think, the products are near identical in every way and some are 100% identical. That's what happens when you take production overseas, which brings me to my next point… If companies move production overseas to lower production costs, why then do those products still retain the same price point they did before production costs were cut?
I currently run 2 RS Pro's because I scored them for under $90 each and my LRP motor was acquired for $35. For my other car I needed a high quality performance motor and after consulting with a good friend, I went with a Speed Passion V3 because it is just as good as anything else and the only cost $40. And guess what? It's been a year since I bought it and it's still going strong. For my son's buggy, I bought him A Reventon R 17.5 combo and it too is ripping just as hard as all the other $250-ish combos everyone else out there is running.
As for how much ESC's cost, compared to a SIMPLE transponder, ESC's are intricately complex amplifiers that control and manage mass amounts of power running through them to power electronics with an amazing level of efficiency. There is an amazing amount of technology under those cases.
While I do think Transponders are overpriced, I realize I had no choice but to go with genuine AMB Products or be stuck with paper weights. Now, having invested $400+ for my transponders, if you do not see the validity of the points I made, nothing ever will. You keep spending your cash how you see fit and enjoy a hearty chuckle while doing so and let people who know the value of money value theirs.
I do a whole lot of communicating with many people who are much more in the know about products in the industry and rather than opting for the most expensive high-end ESC's, Motors and equipment, I go for products who's performance is up to par with those more expensive brands at a considerably lower price point. And not because I'm a cheap-o, but because I know that just because a product is less expensive doesn't mean it is indeed of lesser quality or lacks performance. In fact, being as many of those absurdly priced products are actually made by the same people producing the less expensive ones, more often than people think, the products are near identical in every way and some are 100% identical. That's what happens when you take production overseas, which brings me to my next point… If companies move production overseas to lower production costs, why then do those products still retain the same price point they did before production costs were cut?
I currently run 2 RS Pro's because I scored them for under $90 each and my LRP motor was acquired for $35. For my other car I needed a high quality performance motor and after consulting with a good friend, I went with a Speed Passion V3 because it is just as good as anything else and the only cost $40. And guess what? It's been a year since I bought it and it's still going strong. For my son's buggy, I bought him A Reventon R 17.5 combo and it too is ripping just as hard as all the other $250-ish combos everyone else out there is running.
As for how much ESC's cost, compared to a SIMPLE transponder, ESC's are intricately complex amplifiers that control and manage mass amounts of power running through them to power electronics with an amazing level of efficiency. There is an amazing amount of technology under those cases.
While I do think Transponders are overpriced, I realize I had no choice but to go with genuine AMB Products or be stuck with paper weights. Now, having invested $400+ for my transponders, if you do not see the validity of the points I made, nothing ever will. You keep spending your cash how you see fit and enjoy a hearty chuckle while doing so and let people who know the value of money value theirs.
11-22-2013 | 07:33 AM
#37
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,743
From: RIP 'Chopper', 4/18/13 miss you bud:(
I don't understand what anyone's financial situation has to do with the cost of items in our HOBBY? If we were discussing the cost of the basic necessities NEEDED for survival maybe.
Why blame MyLaps in the first place, for coming out with a new decoder? They did it to protect their investment. Companies do it all the time. If you owned MyLaps what would you do, nothing? And just let MRT ride your coat tails, cutting into your profits by basically ripping off/copying your product? If you say yes, you're a liar, and would be a piss pour businessman. If you're going to blame anyone for doing what MyLaps did, blame MRT, and everyone who bought one.
A $100 PT that lasts 5+ years, maybe even 10 years. How much would you pay for a PT that only lasted 6 months? $10? A set of tires only last most of us a week, and we pay more than 10 bucks a set for those.
Even if you could get a $10 PT that lasted 6 months, in 5 years you just paid 20% more for the same thing we have now.
Even if a PT cost the same to produce as a set of tires. Tires, along with many other items we buy are a consumable product. A PT really isn't, we buy one and it last us YEARS. And after that we sell it and re coupe 50%+ of our investment.
PT's are a niche market, with a very limited sales volume compared to just about everything else we buy. A tire company can figure they're going to sell 100k pairs of tires that they may invest say 15k dollars into molds and R&D. If MyLaps knows they're only going sell 10K PT's at best, a year, and those 10K will remain in use for years to come simple business sense tells you that to remain profitable they're going to have to charge a higher mark up.
I've made posts like this in many other "PT" threads. What happens, the thread dies because no body ever tries to argue my point. Do I wish a PT was $50 and not $100, sure who wouldn't. But if you put a little thought into it and look at the business side you'll realize why they can't or don't.
Actual sales numbers would obviously not be correct but you get the point.
Why blame MyLaps in the first place, for coming out with a new decoder? They did it to protect their investment. Companies do it all the time. If you owned MyLaps what would you do, nothing? And just let MRT ride your coat tails, cutting into your profits by basically ripping off/copying your product? If you say yes, you're a liar, and would be a piss pour businessman. If you're going to blame anyone for doing what MyLaps did, blame MRT, and everyone who bought one.
A $100 PT that lasts 5+ years, maybe even 10 years. How much would you pay for a PT that only lasted 6 months? $10? A set of tires only last most of us a week, and we pay more than 10 bucks a set for those.
Even if you could get a $10 PT that lasted 6 months, in 5 years you just paid 20% more for the same thing we have now.
Even if a PT cost the same to produce as a set of tires. Tires, along with many other items we buy are a consumable product. A PT really isn't, we buy one and it last us YEARS. And after that we sell it and re coupe 50%+ of our investment.
PT's are a niche market, with a very limited sales volume compared to just about everything else we buy. A tire company can figure they're going to sell 100k pairs of tires that they may invest say 15k dollars into molds and R&D. If MyLaps knows they're only going sell 10K PT's at best, a year, and those 10K will remain in use for years to come simple business sense tells you that to remain profitable they're going to have to charge a higher mark up.
I've made posts like this in many other "PT" threads. What happens, the thread dies because no body ever tries to argue my point. Do I wish a PT was $50 and not $100, sure who wouldn't. But if you put a little thought into it and look at the business side you'll realize why they can't or don't.
Actual sales numbers would obviously not be correct but you get the point.
Last edited by racer1812; 11-22-2013 at 08:16 AM.
11-22-2013 | 07:48 AM
#38
The point is that AMB/mylaps has a monopoly on the transponder market for most forms of racing(1/1, foot, bike, etc) They can charge whatever they want for transponders and people will have to buy them.
They're not 'expensive' in whatever form of racing the transponder was made for, but they are grossly overpriced compared to the price of the components.
The big issue is that they are not serviceable. You only need one transponder to race, but moving that transponder between cars will break the wires in a short time.
IMO, it's no different than having to buy all the same brand esc, motor, battery, etc to race. And then that brand doubles the price on all of their products.
Novak tried something similar with with the early havok systems(they only work with novak motors), it failed miserably.
They're not 'expensive' in whatever form of racing the transponder was made for, but they are grossly overpriced compared to the price of the components.
The big issue is that they are not serviceable. You only need one transponder to race, but moving that transponder between cars will break the wires in a short time.
IMO, it's no different than having to buy all the same brand esc, motor, battery, etc to race. And then that brand doubles the price on all of their products.
Novak tried something similar with with the early havok systems(they only work with novak motors), it failed miserably.
11-22-2013 | 07:49 AM
#39
I don't understand what anyone's financial situation has to do with the cost of items in our HOBBY? If we were discussing the cost of the basic necessities NEEDED for survival maybe.
Why blame MyLaps in the first place, for coming out with a new decoder? They did it to protect their investment. Companies do it all the time. If you owned MyLaps what would you do, nothing? And just let MRT ride your coat tails, cutting into your profits by basically ripping off/copying your product? If you say yes, you're a liar, and would be a piss pour businessman. If you're going to blame anyone for doing what MyLaps did, blame MRT, and everyone who bought one.
A $100 PT that lasts 5+ years, maybe even 10 years. How much would you pay for a PT that only lasted 6 months? $10? A set of tires only last most of us a week, and we pay more than 10 bucks a set for those.
Even if you could get a $10 PT that lasted 6 months, in 5 years you just paid 20% more for the same thing we have now.
Even if a PT cost the same to produce as a set of tires. Tires, along with many other items we buy are a consumable product. A PT really isn't, we buy one and it last us YEARS. And after that we sell it and re coupe 50%+ of our investment.
PT's are a niche market, with a very limited sales volume compared to just about everything else we buy. A tire company can figure they're going to sell 100k pairs of tires that they may invest say 15k dollars into molds and R&D. If MyLaps knows they're only going sell 10K PT's at best, a year, and those 10K will remain in use for years to come simple business sense tells you that to remain profitable they're going to have to charge a higher mark up.
I've made posts like this in many other "PT" threads. What happens, the thread dies because no body ever tries to argue my point. Do I wish a PT was $50 and not $100, sure who wouldn't. But if you put a little thought into it and look at the business side you'll realize why they can't or don't.
Why blame MyLaps in the first place, for coming out with a new decoder? They did it to protect their investment. Companies do it all the time. If you owned MyLaps what would you do, nothing? And just let MRT ride your coat tails, cutting into your profits by basically ripping off/copying your product? If you say yes, you're a liar, and would be a piss pour businessman. If you're going to blame anyone for doing what MyLaps did, blame MRT, and everyone who bought one.
A $100 PT that lasts 5+ years, maybe even 10 years. How much would you pay for a PT that only lasted 6 months? $10? A set of tires only last most of us a week, and we pay more than 10 bucks a set for those.
Even if you could get a $10 PT that lasted 6 months, in 5 years you just paid 20% more for the same thing we have now.
Even if a PT cost the same to produce as a set of tires. Tires, along with many other items we buy are a consumable product. A PT really isn't, we buy one and it last us YEARS. And after that we sell it and re coupe 50%+ of our investment.
PT's are a niche market, with a very limited sales volume compared to just about everything else we buy. A tire company can figure they're going to sell 100k pairs of tires that they may invest say 15k dollars into molds and R&D. If MyLaps knows they're only going sell 10K PT's at best, a year, and those 10K will remain in use for years to come simple business sense tells you that to remain profitable they're going to have to charge a higher mark up.
I've made posts like this in many other "PT" threads. What happens, the thread dies because no body ever tries to argue my point. Do I wish a PT was $50 and not $100, sure who wouldn't. But if you put a little thought into it and look at the business side you'll realize why they can't or don't.
11-22-2013 | 07:54 AM
#41
First of all Bob, there is nothing comical about this, and not everyone who partakes in this hobby willingly spends as much money as possible and brags about it. I am the sole bread winner in my home and in case you've missed it, it's much harder to live on a single salary today than it was for the past several dozen generations.
I do a whole lot of communicating with many people who are much more in the know about products in the industry and rather than opting for the most expensive high-end ESC's, Motors and equipment, I go for products who's performance is up to par with those more expensive brands at a considerably lower price point. And not because I'm a cheap-o, but because I know that just because a product is less expensive doesn't mean it is indeed of lesser quality or lacks performance. In fact, being as many of those absurdly priced products are actually made by the same people producing the less expensive ones, more often than people think, the products are near identical in every way and some are 100% identical. That's what happens when you take production overseas, which brings me to my next point… If companies move production overseas to lower production costs, why then do those products still retain the same price point they did before production costs were cut?
I currently run 2 RS Pro's because I scored them for under $90 each and my LRP motor was acquired for $35. For my other car I needed a high quality performance motor and after consulting with a good friend, I went with a Speed Passion V3 because it is just as good as anything else and the only cost $40. And guess what? It's been a year since I bought it and it's still going strong. For my son's buggy, I bought him A Reventon R 17.5 combo and it too is ripping just as hard as all the other $250-ish combos everyone else out there is running.
As for how much ESC's cost, compared to a SIMPLE transponder, ESC's are intricately complex amplifiers that control and manage mass amounts of power running through them to power electronics with an amazing level of efficiency. There is an amazing amount of technology under those cases.
While I do think Transponders are overpriced, I realize I had no choice but to go with genuine AMB Products or be stuck with paper weights. Now, having invested $400+ for my transponders, if you do not see the validity of the points I made, nothing ever will. You keep spending your cash how you see fit and enjoy a hearty chuckle while doing so and let people who know the value of money value theirs.
I do a whole lot of communicating with many people who are much more in the know about products in the industry and rather than opting for the most expensive high-end ESC's, Motors and equipment, I go for products who's performance is up to par with those more expensive brands at a considerably lower price point. And not because I'm a cheap-o, but because I know that just because a product is less expensive doesn't mean it is indeed of lesser quality or lacks performance. In fact, being as many of those absurdly priced products are actually made by the same people producing the less expensive ones, more often than people think, the products are near identical in every way and some are 100% identical. That's what happens when you take production overseas, which brings me to my next point… If companies move production overseas to lower production costs, why then do those products still retain the same price point they did before production costs were cut?
I currently run 2 RS Pro's because I scored them for under $90 each and my LRP motor was acquired for $35. For my other car I needed a high quality performance motor and after consulting with a good friend, I went with a Speed Passion V3 because it is just as good as anything else and the only cost $40. And guess what? It's been a year since I bought it and it's still going strong. For my son's buggy, I bought him A Reventon R 17.5 combo and it too is ripping just as hard as all the other $250-ish combos everyone else out there is running.
As for how much ESC's cost, compared to a SIMPLE transponder, ESC's are intricately complex amplifiers that control and manage mass amounts of power running through them to power electronics with an amazing level of efficiency. There is an amazing amount of technology under those cases.
While I do think Transponders are overpriced, I realize I had no choice but to go with genuine AMB Products or be stuck with paper weights. Now, having invested $400+ for my transponders, if you do not see the validity of the points I made, nothing ever will. You keep spending your cash how you see fit and enjoy a hearty chuckle while doing so and let people who know the value of money value theirs.
In 3 years try to unload your motors and speedos and let us know what you get for them. Then unload your $400 worth of PTs and let us know what you get for them.
11-22-2013 | 07:58 AM
#42
It was I who said $50 would be about right, because having produced parts for Paintball Markers, I know all too well the processes and the efforts required to produce an actual product. I understand R&D and such but Transponders aren't quantum physics and are rather simple and inexpensive enough to produce, that @ $50 they'd recoup their money rather quickly. Also Mylaps produces transponders for a wide variety of sports and I happen to know for a fact they produced the RC4 in the tens of thousands and the Hybrid model in the hundreds of thousands. Most RC enthusiasts like ourselves who love to race usually have more than one car (usually 3) and as such they tend to buy a transponder for each of their cars. If you took 50,000 RC guys and multiplied that by 3 you're already well into 6 figures for the total amount units per person. Bearing in mind many guys have even more vehicles, it's not practical for a company who owns and controls the market and has everyone pretty much by the gonads, to do small runs when they have a clear projection as to how many units they will move.
Now moving into phase 2 of this changeover whereby they will phase out their own genuine product for no other reason than to sell more units, they'll have produced a great deal more units to drive their cost per unit as low as their cash flow will allow and MyLaps has plenty of scratch.
Now moving into phase 2 of this changeover whereby they will phase out their own genuine product for no other reason than to sell more units, they'll have produced a great deal more units to drive their cost per unit as low as their cash flow will allow and MyLaps has plenty of scratch.
11-22-2013 | 08:00 AM
#43
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,743
From: RIP 'Chopper', 4/18/13 miss you bud:(
The point is that AMB/mylaps has a monopoly on the transponder market for most forms of racing(1/1, foot, bike, etc) They can charge whatever they want for transponders and people will have to buy them.
They're not 'expensive' in whatever form of racing the transponder was made for, but they are grossly overpriced compared to the price of the components.
The big issue is that they are not serviceable. You only need one transponder to race, but moving that transponder between cars will break the wires in a short time.
IMO, it's no different than having to buy all the same brand esc, motor, battery, etc to race. And then that brand doubles the price on all of their products.
Novak tried something similar with with the early havok systems(they only work with novak motors), it failed miserably.
They're not 'expensive' in whatever form of racing the transponder was made for, but they are grossly overpriced compared to the price of the components.
The big issue is that they are not serviceable. You only need one transponder to race, but moving that transponder between cars will break the wires in a short time.
IMO, it's no different than having to buy all the same brand esc, motor, battery, etc to race. And then that brand doubles the price on all of their products.
Novak tried something similar with with the early havok systems(they only work with novak motors), it failed miserably.
11-22-2013 | 08:03 AM
#44
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,743
From: RIP 'Chopper', 4/18/13 miss you bud:(
If brand X tire company could make a tire that performed as well as what we use now AND last 10x longer than what we have now do you think we would be paying current prices? From a business standpoint would that make sense for them?
I'm not saying the sticker shock of a $100 PT isn't there, or that I like it. I'm just saying look at the big picture from all sides before claiming "why are we paying $100 for something that should cost us half that".
I'm not saying the sticker shock of a $100 PT isn't there, or that I like it. I'm just saying look at the big picture from all sides before claiming "why are we paying $100 for something that should cost us half that".
Last edited by racer1812; 11-22-2013 at 08:18 AM.
11-22-2013 | 08:20 AM
#45
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,743
From: RIP 'Chopper', 4/18/13 miss you bud:(
First of all Bob, there is nothing comical about this, and not everyone who partakes in this hobby willingly spends as much money as possible and brags about it. I am the sole bread winner in my home and in case you've missed it, it's much harder to live on a single salary today than it was for the past several dozen generations.
I do a whole lot of communicating with many people who are much more in the know about products in the industry and rather than opting for the most expensive high-end ESC's, Motors and equipment, I go for products who's performance is up to par with those more expensive brands at a considerably lower price point. And not because I'm a cheap-o, but because I know that just because a product is less expensive doesn't mean it is indeed of lesser quality or lacks performance. In fact, being as many of those absurdly priced products are actually made by the same people producing the less expensive ones, more often than people think, the products are near identical in every way and some are 100% identical. That's what happens when you take production overseas, which brings me to my next point… If companies move production overseas to lower production costs, why then do those products still retain the same price point they did before production costs were cut?
I currently run 2 RS Pro's because I scored them for under $90 each and my LRP motor was acquired for $35. For my other car I needed a high quality performance motor and after consulting with a good friend, I went with a Speed Passion V3 because it is just as good as anything else and the only cost $40. And guess what? It's been a year since I bought it and it's still going strong. For my son's buggy, I bought him A Reventon R 17.5 combo and it too is ripping just as hard as all the other $250-ish combos everyone else out there is running.
As for how much ESC's cost, compared to a SIMPLE transponder, ESC's are intricately complex amplifiers that control and manage mass amounts of power running through them to power electronics with an amazing level of efficiency. There is an amazing amount of technology under those cases.
While I do think Transponders are overpriced, I realize I had no choice but to go with genuine AMB Products or be stuck with paper weights. Now, having invested $400+ for my transponders, if you do not see the validity of the points I made, nothing ever will. You keep spending your cash how you see fit and enjoy a hearty chuckle while doing so and let people who know the value of money value theirs.
I do a whole lot of communicating with many people who are much more in the know about products in the industry and rather than opting for the most expensive high-end ESC's, Motors and equipment, I go for products who's performance is up to par with those more expensive brands at a considerably lower price point. And not because I'm a cheap-o, but because I know that just because a product is less expensive doesn't mean it is indeed of lesser quality or lacks performance. In fact, being as many of those absurdly priced products are actually made by the same people producing the less expensive ones, more often than people think, the products are near identical in every way and some are 100% identical. That's what happens when you take production overseas, which brings me to my next point… If companies move production overseas to lower production costs, why then do those products still retain the same price point they did before production costs were cut?
I currently run 2 RS Pro's because I scored them for under $90 each and my LRP motor was acquired for $35. For my other car I needed a high quality performance motor and after consulting with a good friend, I went with a Speed Passion V3 because it is just as good as anything else and the only cost $40. And guess what? It's been a year since I bought it and it's still going strong. For my son's buggy, I bought him A Reventon R 17.5 combo and it too is ripping just as hard as all the other $250-ish combos everyone else out there is running.
As for how much ESC's cost, compared to a SIMPLE transponder, ESC's are intricately complex amplifiers that control and manage mass amounts of power running through them to power electronics with an amazing level of efficiency. There is an amazing amount of technology under those cases.
While I do think Transponders are overpriced, I realize I had no choice but to go with genuine AMB Products or be stuck with paper weights. Now, having invested $400+ for my transponders, if you do not see the validity of the points I made, nothing ever will. You keep spending your cash how you see fit and enjoy a hearty chuckle while doing so and let people who know the value of money value theirs.