I personally don't like to use flux other than the flux that is in the solder itself. I found that it just creates a bigger mess than it's worth.

YouTube limits us to 10-minutes, some of the repetitive details have to fall on the cutting room floor to make room.

I'm wondering if they're calling tinning pre-heating perhaps?

????
 

Marine, what are your thoughts on the butane powered soldering irons?? I used to have a nice one made by Master, don't know where it went but was thinking of buying another. My local Snap-On guy has a nice one just trying to figure out what the tips are made of!!:tire::cool:

Interesting...


Here is the full text (I added two blue arrows to show where the pre-heat instruction is)
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2503/tempwx.jpg
What do you think about this pre-heat thing?

Just not written well is all. Should be tin, not heat.

Thanks. Three more questions:

RCGaryK, I notice that use the "Novak Lead-Free Silver Solder NOV5832". What's its composition? did you try the (not lead-free) Sn63Pb37?

The guide http://www.teamnovak.com/tech_info/h...der/index.html says to remove the flux before soldering (text: "The rosin is a flux and flux removes oxide by suspending it in solution and floating it to the top. Flux is not a cleaning agent! The work must be cleaned before soldering. Flux is not part of a soldered connection, it merely aids the soldering process.")
Does it say a wrong thing? doesn't the rosin flux need heat to be activated?

The same guide states "Apply solder to the wire (not to the soldering iron tip!). When the wire end reaches a sufficient temperature, the solder will melt and the capillary action of the wire will draw the molten solder up into the strands".
Do they exclude with exclamation point what Marine did in the video?

I couldn't tell you, I don't know. I just know that I tried it and it works and works well. I don't get all caught up in the 60/40-63/37 mix issues that some have. IMHO if you have a good enough iron that 3% difference will have a minimal impact on soldering.

They're not saying it doesn't need to be heated. What I get from that is them saying that simply smathering a boatload of flux onto a surface before soldering doesn't eliminate the need to clean and prep a surface before soldering.

I haven't watched Marine's video, sorry. I'll defer to him on that one. However what they describe is what I show in my video. You apply the heat to the wire and the wire does draw the solder up.

The physical difference between 60/40 and 63/37 is that the second is eutectic at the lowest temperature. While the first has a mix melting point at 183-190°C, the second is eutectic (has an unique melting point) at 183°C.
Anyway you're using a solder that is at least 37% different because it completely misses the Pb (lead) part and this is what interests me most.
I read many times that solders with lead are better.

Ah, thanks, I got confused on this. I thought that the "work" were referred to the flux.

I'll wait the opinion of Marine on this...

Page 4 of this Kester PDF http://kester.com/en-us/marketingdoc...alog_92206.pdf also talks of "Preheat/pre-heat". Still sure that Tekin confused "pre-heat" with "tin"? (the two blue arrows are added by me)

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/3...eenshotwbq.jpg

Ok guys sorry, been busy and have not checked back in a while. Also, I have not been getting my email notifications.

Shoveling: Using that technique to do final soldering is bad form, but sometimes you may have to do it. You need to start with a small amount of solder on the tip to help heat flow anyway. When tinning solid contacts, this small amount is more than enough to cover it with a thin layer. When tinning wire this small amount will help heat flow but you will most likely need to add more solder. When making final connections, sometimes that small amount will actually be about enough to make the connection, but touching it up with a bit more solder helps create an even flow.

All solders will work, if they didn't they wouldn't make them, but I find that the 63/37 solder to be the easiest to use and has less chance for problems. This is perfect for beginners and experienced solderers alike.

These rules are guidelines to help beginners make good solder connections. There are times when the rules seem to go out the window when soldering some components, (I recently had to use shoveling to solder components together, do to only being able to reach it with one hand) once you get some experience, you will know how to stretch the rules when need be, but that should not happen often in R/C.

That chart is referring to machine soldering, they actually heat up the entire board and the components, as it is sitting enclosed in the machine, to a "preheat" temp to aid in soldering. You see the times listed as several minutes, this is because the machines can be soldering hundreds of components to the board and that can take a while. Also solder paste is meant to be heated by hot air and components reaching the proper temp, once the components are in place the whole board assembly is heated up to soldering temps.

Ok, what they are referring to, is how you apply the solder after you heat up the wire.

Basically what they are saying is, after you touch the tip to the wire and let the wire get hot, (lets say the right side of the wire) you then apply solder to the wire to tin it. You would apply the solder directly to the wire on the opposite side from the tip (in this case the left side) and not directly to the tip or to the area where the tip touches the wire.

Adding a little solder to the tip before you start helps heat flow as I mentioned before. You apply solder to the side of the part opposite of the tip. Shoveling is bad form, because it can cause uneven heat, and therefor uneven solder flow. Like I said above, I have been forced to use shoveling to solder parts, but it requires using extra care to ensure good flow and proper connections. So I don't recommend beginners to use it, and it is unlikely that you ever will in this hobby.

Gary was able to answer several questions, and I hope I covered the rest. If not just ask again. :lol:

Thanks Marine but I'm still confused. I watched again the first seconds of the second part of your video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcsEvJ9nmK4 where you use shoveling and I don't understand what forced you to use it in that situation. If you're forced there, I can't imagine a situation where you are not forced. Can you please clarify this point?

Again on the pre-heating issue, I see that Kester (I believe the world's biggest producer of solder wires) uses the same words in explaining how to solder in the datasheet of the solder wire:
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2808/screenshota.jpg
Are they always just describing the method used by Gary in his video?


Another question: is the disadvantage of using RA cored wire instead of RMA cored wire only that of faster consuming the tips of the iron? if so, could you try to esteem the cost of this disadvantage? I mean, if I can do 100 solder works instead of 200 with a $10 tip, it would cost $0,01 more for use. Does the advantage of RA over RMA worth the cost? I would think so...

I was adding a bit of solder to the tip to help the heat transfer to the wire faster, you do not need to do it, but it does help a good bit. True shoveling is where you put a lot of solder on the tip and apply only that solder to the part. You never touch the part with extra solder from the roll/spool. In the video I used the strand of solder to apply more solder after the part heated up. The time I mentioned being forced to use shoveling, I could only use one hand, there was no way for me to hold the iron and the solder at the same time. In the video, you saw how when I did the actual soldering, I applied solder directly to the part. I touched the iron tip to the bottom of the wire, then when it got hot, I applied solder to the top of the wire, and not the part of the wire where the tip touched or just to the tip itself. That is what it means when it says apply solder to the part and not the tip.

RA flux is more chemically active, meaning it is more corrosive and conductive than RMA, increasing the risk of problems from improper cleaning. If you use it, just clean really well.

Ok, got it. Thanks Marine and Gary for all the clarifications!

No problem.

Bump... Don't want this thread to get lost from inactivity.

Marine, I just want to say thanks. I'm slowly getting back into the hobby, and thanks to you I'm soldering better than I ever thought possible. Everything you recommend makes a huge difference in the ease and quality of the finished product.

Thanks again!

No problem, glad to help. And thanks

I say thanks to Marine too.

I purchased a RMA flux pen, Sn63Pb37 no flux wire, Sn63Pb37 58% RMA wire and Sn63Pb37 66% RA wire, and the Team Associated soldering station, and I made experiments with all the combinations of them, remembering all the concepts expressed by Marine.

Now my soldering works are drastically better than before and now that I understand how correct soldering work looks like I smile if I think at how I soldered before!

For me the flux and the technique of putting the soldering wire to the *heated* joint make the big difference. Likely it's only because rosin-based flux is inert at room temp and needs high-temp to do his job.

Glad I could help guys.

Whew! That was a nice, long "work break"!

I just found this post and am very glad I did! I've only been soldering for various hobbies for 15+ years - all self taught, probably like 90% of everyone else in the hobby - and I can easily see that I can get a lot better just by following the advice you've provided here and getting some better equipment.

Thanks marine6680!

-jake

No problem, and thanks.

I wish I had kept my Weller soldering station I got from my shipyard worker friends while stationed in Philly on Big John. Now I have this stupid cheap Radio Shack pencil iron. It's temperature controlled by me unplugging it when it gets too hot. Very informative post. I really need those helping hands things when soldering Dean's on my stuff. I have old Archer (radio shack) 60/40 resin core light duty solder that I have had forever. Love it. Thanks again.

I have found that having a large tip is helpful when using a cheap iron. If you can find replacement tips that fit it, get a large chisel type tip, and it may help.

Cool, thanks. I'll hit up the shack.

Awesome guide thanks for reminding me about some of things I have forgotten over the years.

Frustrated
 

I've been amateur soldering for like 30 years. Just every now and then. Sometimes not for years, sometimes a few times per year. So not a lot but I know what I'm doing.

I'm now trying to solder a deans plug to a battery and all of a sudden the soldering does not "work" anymore.

Okay, I use a cheap soldering iron ($10) but I've used it many times before.

The problem is that the solder does not "stick" to either the iron, the wire or the plug. It also does not liquefy very well and instead of quicksilver I get something that is the opposite of shiny (sorry, English not mother tongue).

The solder almost looks static. The wire I put some solder on looks really weird. All individual wires are still there. It did not liquefy and melt together. Real strange. I actually wasted some plugs because I applied the iron too long and the plastic melted. Super hot but the solder did not melt. It did but in a static way; wire and plug did NOT want to "merge"

Any clues what goes wrong? I use S39 (flux?). I also tried another iron thinking temperature was a problem. Also bought new solder. Still same result; static solder that does not want to merge/melt/blend...

Have 4 new batteries but can't get the ready without soldering :flaming:

I would try some new 60/40 resin core solder and cleaning your tip by letting it heat, tin it (coat with melted solder), then wipe off on a wet sponge. If it isn't melting it to a shiny silver, your iron is probably bad. I just bought a 15/30 watt soldering pencil at Radio Shack for $10.99. It works well and 15 watts is plenty. My old one was a 30w pencil and I continually had to unplug it as the solder just fell off.
What you're describing is "cold" solder. If you solder something and it isn't quite hot enough for the application, the solder won't wick into the wiring strands and it cools quick and looks very dull. That's what we called a "cold" solder joint and wasn't acceptable in the Navy, or anywhere else.

You both describe the problem exactly:

I actually changed the tip already. The solder went on the tip nicely but (again) refused to get on the plug or wire in a fluid way. I'm starting to think my flux is the problem. It's a rather large bottle and I've been using it as long as I can remember (10 years?). Could that be an issue; flux past "due date"?

Marine 6680,

Big thanks for this. I learned to solder from my dad when I was a kid, but did not pay attention to the finer points. also the years have eroded my memory of those lessons.

Watching your videos, and working carefully and neatly has improved my soldering jobs 1000%. I can't wait to solder something else! Somebody send me a battery and a deans plug!;)

thanks again!

My old Archer solder is quite old and works fine, but it's a very small "gauge" of solder. You are making sure there's a little solder on your tip as you heat the wire then feed in the solder right?

Marine6680,

Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge. I have been soldering for quite a while and within the last week or so I started wondering if there were any tips or tricks that I was missing since no one ever taught me, I just started going for it. After reading your post I feel more confident with my skills and definitely have to change a few bad habits. :D. Once again thanks for taking the time, subscribed.

Weird. I did a search for soldering tips about 2 weeks ago and this did not turn up.

I had to switch from craptastic Losi mini connectors for my batts and Mini-T and mini crawler. So I jumped right in. I got a soldering iron from the 1970's that my pops had laying around at his pad. Grabbed some solder from HD and away I went.

First tested out doing some TRX plugs from an old nimh batt I had laying around. Burned my finger, dropped hot solder on to my Chuck Taylors, bent a plug and pretty much destroyed all that I tried to solder together... I did manage to stick the roll of solder to the traxxas plug before I quit for the day!

2nd attempt pretty much went the same way except I did not solder the roll to the plug :rolleyes: I did however switch from trying to do TRX to Deans for my Mini vehicles. I'll keep everything on the 1/10th side TRX I guess.

3rd attempt... I was introduced to a little something called "pre-tinning". For you solder novices like my dumb azz this basically means putting solder on each of the things you want to solder together. What you then do is just pre-tin then put the two objects together and solder away. Sweet.

Now my soldering jobs look like globs of soggy cereal but I did it and I did it all on my own :lol: Sweet! Lesson here: try it out. be patient. practice practice practice. AND PRE-TIN

I gotta post up a pic up of my handy work. You'll all get a kick out of it! My signature move is melting the red plastic and shrink tubing together into one glob!

PS. Subscribed

Thank you for the guide, I bought a Hakko 936 to replace my craptastic RatShack irons, used it for the first time yesterday and holy cow it's soooo much easier to solder. I waited to order the Kester solder and I'm glad I did, it melts and flows so much better than any crap I'd used before, plus it doesn't gunk up the tip like crap solder does and tins the tip oh so nice. If not for your guide, I'd be soldering like crap, thanks again marine6680.

Just surfing around and found a Weller, which is the brand I believe I had back in my Navy days (1989-1995). This seems like a great deal, had I not just spent $11 at Radioshack, I might have bought this one http://www.wellersolderingstation.ne...ourselfer.html
I also recommend a solder sucker, or desoldering tool. It's spring loaded and sucks up the hot solder you're removing if you don't already have one.

That might be a good mid range Iron. I have used their pro models, and they work well, but the lower end pro model hakko is cheaper than weller's low end pro models.

Flux that old could be an issue. Try fresh RMA type flux and a good 63/37 or 60/40 lead solder. If you still have issues, maybe a new iron as well; it may be getting weak from age and use. They do wear out, so most very high end models can be repaired, but the hobby grade ones are just as cheap to replace the whole thing. (the hakko iron handle costs $60 by itself) Also, make sure you put a small amount of solder on the iron tip before you touch it to the plug, that drop of solder helps heat to flow quicker.

PS. I have been relying on RC tech to email me when I get a reply here, and it has been failing it seems. I have not been to the site lately due to money issues forcing me out of the hobby for right now; though I do not want to abandon you guys. I wrote this guide and I want to support those who need help. RCtech will email me when I get a private message, so send one my way if you don't hear from me on this thread after a day or so and you need help. I do try to pop in here every few weeks just to check. I will also update the original post if anything gets brought up in here I think I need to touch on in the guide.

I haven't bumped the thread in a while, though it should turn up in search, so very odd.

I am glad you are all finding this useful. And thanks/your welcome to everyone offering kind words.

Pictures of that nature may make my brain implode... :lol:

Thanks for this! And a question..
 

Hi Marine,

Thanks!

Very self less of you to have gone to such long lengths and posted this. I also liked the whole approach to your post! Making clear up-front why someone should listen to you - was a gem :)

And then the whole format - summary followed by details - then pictures - all very nicely done -with a lot of "heart".

I am NOT into RC. I just registered to thank you and ask you a question.

I was trying my hand at electronics and just couldn't get good soldering done. I was trying "free-forming" - soldering components directly on to IC sockets. (This was for small robots).

The whole thing looked ugly - I had solder blobs and it all looked very untidy and weak. I searched for tips and stumbled on your post.

So thanks again. I learnt so much - probably everything there is to know about soldering.

I guess its practising this now - that will make me good. The "fundamentals" are up here.

So here are my questions - please spare some time - and help:
- After reading your post - I went home - stuck a IC socket into a general purpose PCB and began to solder
- Gun tip was cleaned and tinned.
- I held the tip BEHIND the IC socket's pin, applied the solder in front and waited for the solder to melt and form the joint
- I counted more than 10 seconds and still no melting!
- I then took the solder and now applied BETWEEN the gun tip and IC pim.
- NOW it melts and forms - what I feel a good joint. Concave.
- I even applied reasonable amount flux in more attempts. Still couldn't do it under 6 secs.
- Would take more than 10-15 secs even. Seemed like a long time - pressing and pressing and waiting.

So - I have violated the 6 sec rule. And I think not done properly - it should have melted from the heat when applied from behind the IC pin.


Question is: Could this be attributed to the quality of solder? Or the gun tip?

My previous soldering attempts - I have kept the gun on for more than an hour :) Now that I read your post - I know thats a sin. But I did it earlier - could that have damaged the tip?

What color should the solder tip be? Mine is drak grey. Its not shiny. Shoiuld it be?

Should I file or sand-paper the tip? Will that damage the nickel plating? (Wow - I learnt so much from your post - didn't I :))

I use a Goot (Japanese) soldering gun 30 Watts.

Once again Marine thanks for your time.

regards Rajesh

Thanks for the complement :D

Solder color should be shiny, unless it is lead free solder; it tends to be duller in looks when used.

No sandpaper, it can help clean the tip, but after a short while, the tip will be ruined. (the more sanding done the faster this happens, if you see copper when sanding, you have just minutes) You could use it as a last resort effort to do a quick solder job, but then the tip will need replaced. The tip should be clean and shiny, not pitted, covered in black gunk, or discolored; if you can't get it back to clean and silvery shiny, then replace it.

The soldering your doing is even more sensitive to heat. R/C can get away with some breakage of the 6 second rule for things like bullet connectors and plugs.

What type of solder are you using, what is your temperature set to? Lead free needs more heat and more time to melt and flow. If using lead solder and good flux, 650*F should do the trick, but 700 degrees may be needed sometimes. Lead free solder needs about 50* more on average.

Is the solder older, the flux? You should not be having that much difficulty with PCB soldering. Is the flux RMA type or at least rosin based? Did you try putting a small amount of solder on the tip before attempting to solder the connection? That small amount of melted solder will spread out and increase the surface area when it touches the part; this helps heat flow better.

Try a bigger tip in the iron, but not too big, experiment with different ones and see what you work best with. As far as changing up the technique, (solder between the tip and component) just remember sometimes you must bend a rule on occasion; bending one rule a bit in order to follow the rest, and/or do a good job/just get it to work. This is where experience pays off, you learn what to look for and how to read a situation.

Thanks - for replying.

Well you are right :) The tip was covered with black sticky kind of coating.

I got a new replacement tip and I feel like I got off a bicycle and sat in a Mustang!!!!!!!

It solders under 2 secs. Infact now it heats up the wires so fast that I sometimes melt a previously soldered connection that is near by (if the same wire is running between them).

So I am having to learn to - first let the previous solder cool. Then solder the next connection and be quick about it!

Oh by-the-way :) After I had asked you about sanding and filing the tip and hadn't heard from you for a couple of days - I actually went ahead and did it!!!

And yes - I damaged the tip :) But I learnt from this experience.

What I am trying to learn now is - applying the heat to the component and the solder to the component. Occassionally am getting the solder all stuck up on the tip! and nothing on the component.

I hope I am done bothering you :) Thanks for the detailed post - I guess I am good to go on my own now.