Team Tekin New Speedos
04-26-2007, 02:12 PM
#421
Originally Posted by DA_cookie_monst
sensorless would allow easier cross-motor use
04-26-2007, 05:20 PM
#424
Sense or Senseless
from rumors i've heard, it won't matter soon when it comes to Spec classes like 10.5/4300 or 13.5 if ROAR goes to the watt rating system. Watts would become the standard for determing what class your BL will run in. winds would become a non-issue. in testing LRP's 15.5 was just as fast as a Novak 13.5, Orion over in Europe has been testing their 13.5 and 10.5 and they are faster than the Novak counterparts. That is probably the reason for just going with WATT ratings to classify spec class BL motors
you could end up with situations/examples below:
Stock BL 180-210 watt class
Novak 13.5,
Lrp 15.5
Tekin 19.5 sensorless
Orion 16.5
Mamba 18.5 sensorless
Spec Mod 220-240 watt class (like 19T, 10.5/4300)
Novak 10.5
LRP 11.5
Orion 13.5
Tekin 14.5 sensorless
Mamba 15.5 sensorless
if ROAR adopts this method the motors wouldn't probably even have their winds listed. example: Novak 10.5 would become a Novak 235Watt. sensored or sensorless won't matter then
you could end up with situations/examples below:
Stock BL 180-210 watt class
Novak 13.5,
Lrp 15.5
Tekin 19.5 sensorless
Orion 16.5
Mamba 18.5 sensorless
Spec Mod 220-240 watt class (like 19T, 10.5/4300)
Novak 10.5
LRP 11.5
Orion 13.5
Tekin 14.5 sensorless
Mamba 15.5 sensorless
if ROAR adopts this method the motors wouldn't probably even have their winds listed. example: Novak 10.5 would become a Novak 235Watt. sensored or sensorless won't matter then
04-26-2007, 05:36 PM
#425
Originally Posted by secretsg
Doubts yes. Anything can fail. What we hear now are mostly made by the marketing department anyways. But how valid is your opinion when you haven't even seen the product and just continue to bag it? So if castles can't do then that means xxx company has no chance of doing it?
As for fanbois. This will be the first Tekin product I will buy. Never owned or even wanted to own a Tekin branded product before. Yea I'm a Tekin Fanboi alright.
As for fanbois. This will be the first Tekin product I will buy. Never owned or even wanted to own a Tekin branded product before. Yea I'm a Tekin Fanboi alright.
"continue to bag it"
-Dude, that was like my first post in this thread! "So if Castles can't do the that means xxx company has no chance of doing it?"
-Man, I don't even USE Castle's stuff, never have.(their speed control is too big for my TC) So I have no idea what Castle can or can't do. I use a LRP BL speed control. So as for me backing Castle...try again.I'm a gamer, so trust me, I know fanboys. And using a product doesn't make you a fanboy. Jumping on anyone who dares to voice a opposing opinion about a product is what makes you a fanboy. And lets see, I said the price was high, and I needed a speedcontrol that handles Novak's sensored motors, and you jump on me....so yeah...that makes you a fanboy. Especially when the company rep takes the questions in stride and says their working on it.
Heres a hint, if the company rep doesn't have a problem with a question, neither should you.
04-26-2007, 05:40 PM
#426
Originally Posted by fast-ho-cars
from rumors i've heard, it won't matter soon when it comes to Spec classes like 10.5/4300 or 13.5 if ROAR goes to the watt rating system. Watts would become the standard for determing what class your BL will run in. winds would become a non-issue. in testing LRP's 15.5 was just as fast as a Novak 13.5, Orion over in Europe has been testing their 13.5 and 10.5 and they are faster than the Novak counterparts. That is probably the reason for just going with WATT ratings to classify spec class BL motors
you could end up with situations/examples below:
Stock BL 180-210 watt class
Novak 13.5,
Lrp 15.5
Tekin 19.5 sensorless
Orion 16.5
Mamba 18.5 sensorless
Spec Mod 220-240 watt class (like 19T, 10.5/4300)
Novak 10.5
LRP 11.5
Orion 13.5
Tekin 14.5 sensorless
Mamba 15.5 sensorless
if ROAR adopts this method the motors wouldn't probably even have their winds listed. example: Novak 10.5 would become a Novak 235Watt. sensored or sensorless won't matter then
you could end up with situations/examples below:
Stock BL 180-210 watt class
Novak 13.5,
Lrp 15.5
Tekin 19.5 sensorless
Orion 16.5
Mamba 18.5 sensorless
Spec Mod 220-240 watt class (like 19T, 10.5/4300)
Novak 10.5
LRP 11.5
Orion 13.5
Tekin 14.5 sensorless
Mamba 15.5 sensorless
if ROAR adopts this method the motors wouldn't probably even have their winds listed. example: Novak 10.5 would become a Novak 235Watt. sensored or sensorless won't matter then
It even opens the door for understanding where you might place a brushed guy if you were still a small club and needed to integrate the classes.
Did you get that info from a thread that I could read, or alternate sources?
04-26-2007, 06:01 PM
#427
the part about LRP 15.5 being faster or as fast as a Novak 13.5 was in a comment on RCtech...thread? search LRP 15.5 and it should show.
Rick Howhart in a Rctech thread? made the comment about the Orion 13.5 and 10.5 over in Europe and concerns about them being faster, etc. This one can be searched by author or maybe Orion 13.5
ROAR discussions, due to being under the effect of UFOs, Aliens, Communists, or mind altering drugs...i can not divulge the info at this time
Rick Howhart in a Rctech thread? made the comment about the Orion 13.5 and 10.5 over in Europe and concerns about them being faster, etc. This one can be searched by author or maybe Orion 13.5
ROAR discussions, due to being under the effect of UFOs, Aliens, Communists, or mind altering drugs...i can not divulge the info at this time
04-26-2007, 06:04 PM
#428
Originally Posted by fast-ho-cars
from rumors i've heard, it won't matter soon when it comes to Spec classes like 10.5/4300 or 13.5 if ROAR goes to the watt rating system. Watts would become the standard for determing what class your BL will run in. winds would become a non-issue. in testing LRP's 15.5 was just as fast as a Novak 13.5, Orion over in Europe has been testing their 13.5 and 10.5 and they are faster than the Novak counterparts. That is probably the reason for just going with WATT ratings to classify spec class BL motors
But that also leads to another point. The reason why clubs who have adopted BL early(without needing Roar to hold their hand) have just decided to go with one brand of motor. And keep in mind that this isn't usually the tracks decision. This is usually a bunch of racers deciding 'hey, we want a spec class, lets all use this'.
And because the Novak motors are so readily availible, and people trust Novak quality and customer service, their motors get picked.
I can understand why other companies don't want to have to design their stuff around Novak's ideas, but whether people(or companies) like it or not, Novak is dug in at a lot of clubs, and it will be tough to convince guys who went to brushless to get away from motor wars, that based on watts, they should go from a single motor set up, to multiple motors allowed.
I know locally we've argued about it, and most of the motors we're arguing about haven't even hit the market yet.
04-26-2007, 06:22 PM
#429
Darkseid
i agree with you. their has been alot of bashing/battling behinds the scenes when it comes to the 13.5 and 10.5/4300, these 2 motors are so seeded deep now, no one wants anything else or allow other brands. no one else right now has put anything out to compare, so they can't really complain. everyone else has basicly released top end race or basher hi-speed motors...nothing really for spec stock or spec mod racing.
BRL just announced that they are making "N" the only motor for 13.5 and 10.5 classes. Many tracks have or will follow this line of thought. even though BRL covers onroad oval racing, many tracks that race roadcourse use BRL rules.
i can't say if this is good or bad, shutting out technology can lead to stagnation in the hobby. if blocking logic was used years ago in 27T Brushed motors what stock motor would we be runnning today. would it be rebuildable? would the masses been happy running a Paradox or MVP for the past 5+ years?
The watt system is supposed to garner acceptance of the late comers into BL spec or spec mod motors. winds will not be referenced if it is put in the rules
i agree with you. their has been alot of bashing/battling behinds the scenes when it comes to the 13.5 and 10.5/4300, these 2 motors are so seeded deep now, no one wants anything else or allow other brands. no one else right now has put anything out to compare, so they can't really complain. everyone else has basicly released top end race or basher hi-speed motors...nothing really for spec stock or spec mod racing.
BRL just announced that they are making "N" the only motor for 13.5 and 10.5 classes. Many tracks have or will follow this line of thought. even though BRL covers onroad oval racing, many tracks that race roadcourse use BRL rules.
i can't say if this is good or bad, shutting out technology can lead to stagnation in the hobby. if blocking logic was used years ago in 27T Brushed motors what stock motor would we be runnning today. would it be rebuildable? would the masses been happy running a Paradox or MVP for the past 5+ years?
The watt system is supposed to garner acceptance of the late comers into BL spec or spec mod motors. winds will not be referenced if it is put in the rules
04-26-2007, 06:42 PM
#430
Originally Posted by fast-ho-cars
Darkseid
i agree with you. their has been alot of bashing/battling behinds the scenes when it comes to the 13.5 and 10.5/4300, these 2 motors are so seeded deep now, no one wants anything else or allow other brands. no one else right now has put anything out to compare, so they can't really complain. everyone else has basicly released top end race or basher hi-speed motors...nothing really for spec stock or spec mod racing.
BRL just announced that they are making "N" the only motor for 13.5 and 10.5 classes. Many tracks have or will follow this line of thought. even though BRL covers onroad oval racing, many tracks that race roadcourse use BRL rules.
i can't say if this is good or bad, shutting out technology can lead to stagnation in the hobby. if blocking logic was used years ago in 27T Brushed motors what stock motor would we be runnning today. would it be rebuildable? would the masses been happy running a Paradox or MVP for the past 5+ years?
The watt system is supposed to garner acceptance of the late comers into BL spec or spec mod motors. winds will not be referenced if it is put in the rules
i agree with you. their has been alot of bashing/battling behinds the scenes when it comes to the 13.5 and 10.5/4300, these 2 motors are so seeded deep now, no one wants anything else or allow other brands. no one else right now has put anything out to compare, so they can't really complain. everyone else has basicly released top end race or basher hi-speed motors...nothing really for spec stock or spec mod racing.
BRL just announced that they are making "N" the only motor for 13.5 and 10.5 classes. Many tracks have or will follow this line of thought. even though BRL covers onroad oval racing, many tracks that race roadcourse use BRL rules.
i can't say if this is good or bad, shutting out technology can lead to stagnation in the hobby. if blocking logic was used years ago in 27T Brushed motors what stock motor would we be runnning today. would it be rebuildable? would the masses been happy running a Paradox or MVP for the past 5+ years?
The watt system is supposed to garner acceptance of the late comers into BL spec or spec mod motors. winds will not be referenced if it is put in the rules
And what's helping to keep the N motors seeded in, is the completely negative experience most people had with Brushed motors and NiMH right before they switched to BL/Lipo. So those people, some of which feel BL save R/C for them, and TC as a class, will fight hard against what they see as BL becoming "brushed(part 2)"
So its going to be hard. I don't think locking out anybody is a good thing, even if some of them are late comers.
Interesting times are definitely ahead. Just think, all this discussion and most of the new motors and speed controls haven't even hit the market yet. Just wait till they do, then people will really start picking sides!
04-26-2007, 06:46 PM
#431
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Originally Posted by fast-ho-cars
Darkseid
i agree with you. their has been alot of bashing/battling behinds the scenes when it comes to the 13.5 and 10.5/4300, these 2 motors are so seeded deep now, no one wants anything else or allow other brands. no one else right now has put anything out to compare, so they can't really complain. everyone else has basicly released top end race or basher hi-speed motors...nothing really for spec stock or spec mod racing.
BRL just announced that they are making "N" the only motor for 13.5 and 10.5 classes. Many tracks have or will follow this line of thought. even though BRL covers onroad oval racing, many tracks that race roadcourse use BRL rules.
i can't say if this is good or bad, shutting out technology can lead to stagnation in the hobby. if blocking logic was used years ago in 27T Brushed motors what stock motor would we be runnning today. would it be rebuildable? would the masses been happy running a Paradox or MVP for the past 5+ years?
The watt system is supposed to garner acceptance of the late comers into BL spec or spec mod motors. winds will not be referenced if it is put in the rules
i agree with you. their has been alot of bashing/battling behinds the scenes when it comes to the 13.5 and 10.5/4300, these 2 motors are so seeded deep now, no one wants anything else or allow other brands. no one else right now has put anything out to compare, so they can't really complain. everyone else has basicly released top end race or basher hi-speed motors...nothing really for spec stock or spec mod racing.
BRL just announced that they are making "N" the only motor for 13.5 and 10.5 classes. Many tracks have or will follow this line of thought. even though BRL covers onroad oval racing, many tracks that race roadcourse use BRL rules.
i can't say if this is good or bad, shutting out technology can lead to stagnation in the hobby. if blocking logic was used years ago in 27T Brushed motors what stock motor would we be runnning today. would it be rebuildable? would the masses been happy running a Paradox or MVP for the past 5+ years?
The watt system is supposed to garner acceptance of the late comers into BL spec or spec mod motors. winds will not be referenced if it is put in the rules
04-26-2007, 06:52 PM
#432
Originally Posted by wyd
Well that sucks unless your a Novak fan.
Back in the day, I was a Tekin guy, bordering on fanboy
, so Novak was a no go. I always thought the Tekin G-series was better than that crap Novak spewed out, and I always thougt Novak users were a little too cocky...kinda like people perceive Mac users now. But now, today, in 2006-2007, once I got to see how close and fun it was for everybody to run the 13.5 or 10.5, I got over it.I think if some other company can match Novak in distribution and consistency, and beat them in price, that club racers would have no problem switching motors. I just don't think many of them will want to mix brands. <speaking in Yoda talk> For that way lies the path to the motor wars
04-26-2007, 07:24 PM
#433
Since when was I referring to your posts? 
Originally Posted by Darkseid
Dude you are so off, its ridiculous!
"continue to bag it" -Dude, that was like my first post in this thread!
"So if Castles can't do the that means xxx company has no chance of doing it?" -Man, I don't even USE Castle's stuff, never have.(their speed control is too big for my TC) So I have no idea what Castle can or can't do. I use a LRP BL speed control. So as for me backing Castle...try again.
I'm a gamer, so trust me, I know fanboys. And using a product doesn't make you a fanboy. Jumping on anyone who dares to voice a opposing opinion about a product is what makes you a fanboy. And lets see, I said the price was high, and I needed a speedcontrol that handles Novak's sensored motors, and you jump on me....so yeah...that makes you a fanboy. Especially when the company rep takes the questions in stride and says their working on it.
Heres a hint, if the company rep doesn't have a problem with a question, neither should you.
"continue to bag it"
-Dude, that was like my first post in this thread! "So if Castles can't do the that means xxx company has no chance of doing it?"
-Man, I don't even USE Castle's stuff, never have.(their speed control is too big for my TC) So I have no idea what Castle can or can't do. I use a LRP BL speed control. So as for me backing Castle...try again.I'm a gamer, so trust me, I know fanboys. And using a product doesn't make you a fanboy. Jumping on anyone who dares to voice a opposing opinion about a product is what makes you a fanboy. And lets see, I said the price was high, and I needed a speedcontrol that handles Novak's sensored motors, and you jump on me....so yeah...that makes you a fanboy. Especially when the company rep takes the questions in stride and says their working on it.
Heres a hint, if the company rep doesn't have a problem with a question, neither should you.
04-26-2007, 10:42 PM
#434
The only reason Novak is being used as a benchmark is they were the first main stream company to market. They were the first to propose a motor design to be approved by racing organizations.
The sad thing is that having a sensor doesn't neccessarily give you better feedback. Sensors have limitations built into them. Sensored motors are built different enough for the sensorless esc to "see" the postion. It can be done, it just takes a tremendous amount of testing and software. Tekin will not release inferior products just to get them out there.
There are a lot of different motors being readied for Roar review right now. Tekin will surely be one of them with a few different designs.
Buy an R1 and split the cases...I'm sure it's not going to resemble a CC controller. This particular "theory" makes me irritated at best. Castle has not and most likely will not enter the racing scene. There's been quite a few Trinity drivers using their esc and not being happy with it's "limitations." Trinity, Orion, Gm,etc are all heading down the sensorless road. Do you really think Ernie P. is going to invest in technology he can't sell!? Come on guys...
The sad thing is that having a sensor doesn't neccessarily give you better feedback. Sensors have limitations built into them. Sensored motors are built different enough for the sensorless esc to "see" the postion. It can be done, it just takes a tremendous amount of testing and software. Tekin will not release inferior products just to get them out there.
There are a lot of different motors being readied for Roar review right now. Tekin will surely be one of them with a few different designs.
Buy an R1 and split the cases...I'm sure it's not going to resemble a CC controller. This particular "theory" makes me irritated at best. Castle has not and most likely will not enter the racing scene. There's been quite a few Trinity drivers using their esc and not being happy with it's "limitations." Trinity, Orion, Gm,etc are all heading down the sensorless road. Do you really think Ernie P. is going to invest in technology he can't sell!? Come on guys...