70LikesTransponder Hack
03-19-2024, 04:57 PM
#76
I've got a couple ideas to solve the expensive transponder issue.
1. Build an open source decoder that will read mylaps transponders as well as open source transponders. Hardware cost could be brought down significantly.
2. Live time supports running multiple loops, will it support running 2 different decoders doing this? Could you run mylaps and trackmate at the same time?
3. Custom firmware for the mylaps decoders to open them back up to detect older transponders.
1. Build an open source decoder that will read mylaps transponders as well as open source transponders. Hardware cost could be brought down significantly.
2. Live time supports running multiple loops, will it support running 2 different decoders doing this? Could you run mylaps and trackmate at the same time?
3. Custom firmware for the mylaps decoders to open them back up to detect older transponders.
03-20-2024, 12:18 AM
#77
For 3 there is no custom firmware needed, you only need V4.4 It is not possible to downgrade so you need to extract the actual firmware and upload it directly into the processor.
03-20-2024, 12:50 AM
#78
Thats....not how that works at all. Processor's inherently do not have any storage. Maybe some volatile cache, but thats moot. There's a boot loader that looks for the local image of the firmware on the ROM. If the bootloader or ROM image fail a checksum check, then it won't boot. The boot loader has a method for overwriting the current ROM, but it will check and make sure its incrementing the version number only. Your only hope would be to hex edit the old firmware and try to pass it off as an upgrade, but they have a few other checks they do to make this pretty much impossible. They are locked down pretty tight, understandably so.
03-20-2024, 12:54 AM
#79
I'm not sure exactly how Live Time integrates the timing feeds, our software could do this easily as we are just parsing the feed from the decoder to get Tx numbers and time stamps, thats all its really sending (there some other info like RSSI, but we just throw it away). So any software can easily just add a new parser to consume a new feed. Once those tx and times are in the software it doesn't matter where they originated from. A few of the companies we worked with even emulated MyLaps decoder feed just to make it easy on the software developers to integrate their product.
03-20-2024, 09:07 PM
#80
Thats....not how that works at all. Processor's inherently do not have any storage. Maybe some volatile cache, but thats moot. There's a boot loader that looks for the local image of the firmware on the ROM. If the bootloader or ROM image fail a checksum check, then it won't boot. The boot loader has a method for overwriting the current ROM, but it will check and make sure its incrementing the version number only. Your only hope would be to hex edit the old firmware and try to pass it off as an upgrade, but they have a few other checks they do to make this pretty much impossible. They are locked down pretty tight, understandably so.
03-20-2024, 11:22 PM
#81
Their terminology was wrong but they're mostly correct. You can't just use their firmware update software and hand over the downgraded version. You need to do board level flashing manually. Either by desoldering the EEPROM and using a flashing tool directly, or using a special clamping jig to interface with the EEPROM in situ.
03-21-2024, 12:07 AM
#82
With such microprocessors it is normal possible to erase the bootloader and upload a different one. I bet there is a programming port on the systemboard.
On a daily base with repairing electronics I need to upload software to mostly STM32 and Renesanse processors. But you do need the right files and I bet the files are well hidden away in their available updates.
On a daily base with repairing electronics I need to upload software to mostly STM32 and Renesanse processors. But you do need the right files and I bet the files are well hidden away in their available updates.
04-05-2024, 06:03 AM
#83
This is actually right in my wheel house. I ran a timing software company for about 17 years and we were a distributor for MyLaps, as well as others. We had about 1600 customers paying about $750/months for our software in 70 different countries. Go karts, motocross, full size race tracks, shit even the Nurburgring used us.
Across all of those sports, Mylaps was always the heavy hitter. It cost the most by a long shot but man was it reliable. It was also good over 300mph which most wouldn't touch. There's nothing particularly innovative about it until you get into the big money stuff, GPS tracking, having 20 loops on your track, automated light controls, a central server to track all the decoders and ancillary devices. None of that really matters to RC.
There are tons of other viable timing hardware companies. Tag Heuer, DeHaardt, Pixel, LapSnapper, Race Result, Apex, Alien RFID.... All of them work, none of them were as reliable as MyLaps. I can tell you from the millions of laps our customers logged we hardly ever got a support call from a MyLaps customer. But they're still over priced mainly because of the market penetration they have. No track is going to alienate themselves by not having a ML decoder onsite. The only one I would think would have a shot at eating into their market is the RFID guys. Xponders are seriously $2 a pop and they're a small sticker you slap on the car. They're super resilient too. Only downside is you need an over head gantry for the antenna, doable but not idea. But at $2 a piece you could just give them a sticker with their entry fee. With all that said, that's just the hardware, there's a ton of software to manage race days, registration, live timing over web sockets, scoreboards, top times, yada yada yada...
Across all of those sports, Mylaps was always the heavy hitter. It cost the most by a long shot but man was it reliable. It was also good over 300mph which most wouldn't touch. There's nothing particularly innovative about it until you get into the big money stuff, GPS tracking, having 20 loops on your track, automated light controls, a central server to track all the decoders and ancillary devices. None of that really matters to RC.
There are tons of other viable timing hardware companies. Tag Heuer, DeHaardt, Pixel, LapSnapper, Race Result, Apex, Alien RFID.... All of them work, none of them were as reliable as MyLaps. I can tell you from the millions of laps our customers logged we hardly ever got a support call from a MyLaps customer. But they're still over priced mainly because of the market penetration they have. No track is going to alienate themselves by not having a ML decoder onsite. The only one I would think would have a shot at eating into their market is the RFID guys. Xponders are seriously $2 a pop and they're a small sticker you slap on the car. They're super resilient too. Only downside is you need an over head gantry for the antenna, doable but not idea. But at $2 a piece you could just give them a sticker with their entry fee. With all that said, that's just the hardware, there's a ton of software to manage race days, registration, live timing over web sockets, scoreboards, top times, yada yada yada...
04-05-2024, 07:12 AM
#84
Thank you for confirming what we all knew "But they're still over priced mainly because of the market penetration they have". It still baffles me when people say stuff like "I blow so much money in this hobby this really is just a drop in the bucket". They try to justify getting screwed by companies.
Just stop whining, now I think about it, it is probably more that you are forced to buy and use a MyLaps transponder and basically with RC4 you have no other choice. Yes, if you know what is inside the transponder it is probably not more than 10 dollar total production costs (transponder with manual and package) but who cares, there is a lot of development done and there is a lot more behind it like a "free" lifetime recording of the laps. Or do you want a 30 dollar transponder, 20 dollar registration costs and a 40 euro a year subscription for the laps recording? If you treat your transponder well the costs will not be more than 10 dollar a year.
04-05-2024, 08:52 AM
#85
I tend to agree, they are overpriced on the hardware but they offer a lot in ancillary features through software that makes it well worthwhile imo. I'm absolutely shocked they haven't gone to a subscription service yet. They've been talking about it for years. Paying $50 a year for your transponders to work on their system is going to be a lot worse than a 1-time-many-year purchase.
04-06-2024, 12:13 PM
#86
Tech Adept
Roeloff has some points there.
Concerning a subscription, they probably haven't done it yet, because then a technically solution is needed to decide, which transponder has an active subscription. That would mean new decoders and mandatory internet connection, I reckon. I guess, that's not too easy. But maybe they will charge for their speedhive service sooner or later.
Andi
Concerning a subscription, they probably haven't done it yet, because then a technically solution is needed to decide, which transponder has an active subscription. That would mean new decoders and mandatory internet connection, I reckon. I guess, that's not too easy. But maybe they will charge for their speedhive service sooner or later.
Andi
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