Initial Brake Force?
 

Hobbywing XERUN XR10 Justock ESC.

Can anyone clarify this ESC setting. It's not explained in the manual.

Initial Brake Force: Option 1 = Drag Brake Force / Option 2 - 0% / Option 3 - 20% / Option 4 - 40%

There's also Drag Brake Force and Max Brake Force, those I understand. I just can't figure out what's meant by Initial Brake Force.

Thanks!

It's how much brake is applied when the brakes are starting to be applied. Personal preference if you want more brakes when you tap the brakes.

Thanks for clarifying.

I have Drag Brake set to 40%. Max Brake set to 75%.

I understood Drag Brake to be simulated motor braking off throttle (neutral.) Max Brake is 75% of total. So, I thought that Drag Brake was acting essentially as 40% Initial Braking.

No?

Braking was my biggest suprise last summer racing. Never realized how much they were used. Running solo for so long I’d learned to just let of throttle and roll through turns.
Wasn’t till after racing ended I got a programming box and started trying different brake settings. I ran with a Trackstar esc, came set at 80 percent. Which was suprising since it felt like I barely had any. Just moving to 85 percent cut 2+ seconds off my laps.
I’ve also got a hobbywing esc. Came set a 75 percent Moved to 100. Big improvement.
Never liked the feel of drag brake. Though I may give it a try in my F1 this summer.

I used them really for the first time last night. The throw from throttle on to brakes on seems really long and so for me is an awkward movement. I did move my trigger back and that helped. You're right though, 75% braking feels like nothing and the car just continues to roll. At 100% it seems too sudden though.

The first option under Initial Braking is Option 1 = Drag Brake Force. That's my current setting. My thinking was that at neutral trigger I had 40% brakes then if I tapped the trigger I had 75% so no sudden braking, just gradual and smooth. Otherwise, at 100% the brake application is too much.

I'll have to start experimenting. I'll take off the Drag Brake and up the Initial Brake.

Pretty sure this video shows when I changed brake setting to 100 percent. It’s with my 17.5 Serpent.

https://youtu.be/-kjho_t8-G4

If you feel like you have to move the trigger too far, you can try and reduce your deadband/neutral range if it defaults to a wider/higher number. I think Hobbywing ESC's default to narrow which is the lowest setting.

I also have a problem sensing where neutral is and applying light brakes. I have a habit of applying full brakes. I don't want super strong springs as that would make it uncomfortable to drive. Would like some sort of tactile feedback of when I'm in neutral.

I'm glad to see somebody having the same problem as me (I guess lol.) Yes, I reduced the ESC deadband/neutral to the narrowest setting and it helped immensely. At the default ESC setting the trigger throw was horrible. Basically dead until halfway through.

Absolutely! The steering has the detent that you can feel when the steering is centered and that would be nice on the trigger maybe. Yesterday I moved my trigger back quite a bit and it really helped. With the ESC set to 100% braking force, you're right, it's all or nothing it seems that even at the end of a long straight bam the car just stops.

Definitely more playing to do with the ESC and transmitter but feedback like this will definitely help me and hopefully others as well!

Apparently there is an entire thread just for the Hobbywing ESC. Turns out that there is a bit of discussion about the brakes. Some clarification is given in the description of Intial Brake Force as being the same as Minimum Brake Force. That sort of helps me better understand the setting. Let me know what you think.

I found this comment from the Hobbywing rep:

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"Here is some info for you to understand the braking system and how it works.

Maximum brake force: The esc provides proportional braking function. The Braking force relates to the position of the throttle stick. Maximum braking force refers to the force when the throttle stick is located at the top (end point) of the reverse zone. A very large brake force can shorten the braking time but can strip your spur gear.

Initial brake force : Also known as Minimum brake force, and it refers to the force when the throttle lever is located at the initial position of the reverse zone. The default value is is equal to the drag brake force so the braking effect can be very linear and smooth.

Drag Brake force : Sets the amount of drag braking applied at the neutral throttle position to simulate the light braking effect of a neutral brushed motor while coasting."

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Additionally, several posters commented that they don't use Drag Brake at all since it apparently generates quite a bit of heat into the motor.

Yes, the manual explains it pretty well.

If you have your Drag Brake set at 40% and the Initial Brake Force set at 0%... that just makes no sense. You would have that 40% fluctuation as soon as you move the trigger, and activating the brakes.

Starting point for brakes (Initial Brake Force) should be ≥ Drag Brake Force.

The throttle already has a detent. Most high end radios have adjustable spring tension for the steering wheel and throttle trigger. If your radio has adjustable spring tension for the throttle try a stiffer setting to see if it helps you feel where the brakes start.

Also, with so much drag brake (40%) and then an initial brake strength lower than 40%, it would make it so as soon as you get on the brakes, it would actually apply less braking force. Try decreasing drag brake to something like 15-20%, set initial strength to "drag brake". Then, dial in your max braking % so if you hammer the brakes all the way it brings the car to a stop as fast as possible without locking up the tires and skidding out of control. This will make the brakes very consistent, and easier to use effectively.

My radio has adjustable wheel spring tension and trigger position, but I'm not sure about trigger spring. You're right, that might help. Gonna double check my manual.

Yes, it's all starting to make sense and the feedback is helping me reason through it. Yesterday was the first day that I actually experimented with the brakes and didn't just rely on Drag Brake. I was shocked at how well (regular brakes) helped the car rotate into corners. I like your idea of 15-20% Drag Brake and 100% brake. I'll just have to do more practice with the brakes and as I do I'm sure that I'll become more skilled at being able to feel the subtle differences. Thanks!

I set this way.

- End of the longest strait, hit the brakes. You want to break, but not lose control. = Break force. Or how hard your brakes are applied. 4x4 has 4 wheel brakes. Buggy vs. Truck would be different.

- Drag brake, is how much brake is applied when you take your finger off the throttle. I like to set this so when you jump, take your finger off the throttle, so your nose goes down on your vehicle. So when you jump and in the air, gas it to bring the nose up. Hit the brakes to bring the nose down. Drag brake for a consistent bring the nose down a bit. Maybe a 45 degree down, so you hit the back of the jump.

That is what I do.

Thanks! That's probably the best application for drag brake that I've heard so far. Makes sense.

Drag brake is mostly for making weight transfer forward so your car has steering going into a corner. Knowing exactly how the car is going to act when the trigger hits neutral makes it so you can hit your apexes at exactly the same speed every lap. Corner speed is king, especially in spec classes like 17.5

Yeah, for on road this makes perfect sense. The challenge here when using Brake Force as you described it, would be to make sure that you have enough drag force dialed in to affect the weight transfer of the car. Too little and it's essentially useless but if it's enough you may not even have to tap the brakes going into certain corners. The down side is that you have to get the trigger to neutral, which means that you're off the throttle. Thanks!

Although I agree with the basis for his thinking as to his personal use of drag brake in sea1swk's post, I do not think this applies to JC3. JC3 Is running on road cars per his picture and description.

Yes, you're right I run road. However, I think the way sea1swk used it was very effective for controlling attitude in jumps. Also, I thought it was a good visual on how weight got transferred to the front. Thanks!

Drag brake is hardly use in SPEC classes as it will kill your corner speed big time. The natural drag of the motor in spec classes is quite enough to slow down the car in corners. I use 75% of initial break setting on the ESC. If it feels like car is on a sudden abrupt stop when you applied the break best thing is to adjust your radio turn down the end point between 80% - 90% whatever you feel more comfortable with. Corner speed with very smooth breaking is the key to go fast in spec classes.

Your settings will probably help him best. I'm pretty sure you're both talking about tc. My suggestions were based off of my experience with 2wd buggies. My drag brake settings would probably be better suited for an F1 or 1/12th scale.

Thanks for the advice. I'll say again that all of the feedback I've received has really helped me understand how to best use this feature.

So, based on what you said: Drag Brake = 0/Initial Brake = 75%/Max Brake = 100%. Correct?

I'll give it a try, along with a couple of other things, at practice tomorrow. Thanks!

I would set the break it as follows for spec classes like 17.5/USGT/VTA:

Drag break = 0%
Initial Break = 75% (Smoother breaking on sweepers high speed corner so you don't kill the momentum of the car)
Max Break = 40% (Smoother breaking in low speed corners)
Radio End point = 80% - 90% (depend how hard you want the break to feel)

I drive smooth on corner and this how I setup mine. However I mainly drive mod but when I race spec class I hardly use break specially on USGT they are so freaking slow lol.

Note: Some driver is point and shoot type of driving and they tend to use a more hard breaking.

Drag break is the enemy of 2wd buggies IMO.. my break setting is pretty close on my TC if I'm running 2wd buggy mod or SPEC but even more lighter break feel on initial breaking. I just use enough break just to slow it down in corner. Mid air if you have a lot of drag break car just won't jump right drag break slow the inertia of the rear wheel and the car will nose down abruptly. If you have a tons drag break under breaking you will loose the rear end guarantee. But if your running 4wd mod buggies drag break is your friend :)

[QUOTE=Jochim_18;15184819]I would set the break it as follows for spec classes like 17.5/USGT/VTA:

Drag break = 0%
Initial Break = 75% (Smoother breaking on sweepers high speed corner so you don't kill the momentum of the car)
Max Break = 40% (Smoother breaking in low speed corners)
Radio End point = 80% - 90% (depend how hard you want the break to feel)

I drive smooth on corner and this how I setup mine. However I mainly drive mod but when I race spec class I hardly use break specially on USGT they are so freaking slow lol.

Note: Some driver is point and shoot type of driving and they tend to use a more hard breaking.[/QUOTE

Very interesting. I'm not sure that I understand this. How is this different from having Initial 40% and Max 75%? Thanks.

Same here!

Same here too! There just doesn't seem to be enough time to work the brakes. I'm just now starting to come to terms with when/how to use them instead of rolling through the turns. For me, the effect is so abrupt that it disrupts the car.

So far, only one of the settings that I've tried seem to be fit into my driving style. Drag Brake. I think that's because I don't have to actually 'use' it but I just 'rely' on it being there automatically when I'm off the gas. Roll into a turn knowing that drag brake is working and that's it.

As I become more comfortable getting around the track I am trying to experiment with other brake settings because I realize that this Drag Brake use probably isn't the best way to go in the long run. It's a challenge.

[QUOTE=JC3;15184833]Initial break is when you first applied the break from full throttle. Max break when you applied the break after the initial breaking when car start slowing down this prevent the car from bogging down too much in corners. Put it this way when your driving your real car you step on the break before you turn (Initial Break) then you keep your feet on the break pedal just lightly to slow down the car when you are make that turn (max Break) does that make sense to you?

Rolling the car into the corner without breaking means you have to let off gas really early so you don't over shoot the corners. But if you use break you can stay on gas longer and hit the break late just before the corner and let the car roll into the corner and without drag break car will corner faster.

[QUOTE=Jochim_18;15185229]Yes, the comparison to the real car really helps. I'm just trying to process all of the suggestions that people are making and be sure I understand before I add them to the list of things that I want to try.

I really like your idea because it means that the initial braking is hard (75%) as you pass the trigger through the neutral zone and then softens (40%) while you are still on the brake. To me that means that I don't have to be quite so worried about the car coming to such an abrupt stop plus I can be turning in as well. Very interesting. Thanks for taking the time to share and clarify!

Dude, I'm talking 5-15% drag brake. Just enough to get the weight to transfer forward.

Maybe if traction is good but on loamy dirt loose track definitely no drag break. If you only using 5%-15% heck why even use it I don't think you'll feel much difference without a drag break lol.

Yeah, and most people that race 2wd buggy race on high grip.

This last weekend I went to a points series finally race for 1/10th scale. The track normally runs 1/8th scale, so it was not high grip by any means. I tried drag brake strength from 5-15% and settled at 8% based on layout and grip level. I've been racing rc cars for 28 years, I can feel tiny changes like that.

for HW XR10 Pro


I run 2wd buggy in carpet, 13.5 class
I am a point and shoot driver. apex to apex.
Brake Force : (0-100%)
the amount of brake the esc can do. I usually have it at default 100%
Initial Brake : (=drag brake, 0=50) I have it at 0 - 5 . In real cars, It's the amount of brake you apply while braking. 0 would be instant (no delay) 50 would be maximum delay in braking. If you have it on "=drag brake" setting ... set your drag brake. I don't use drag brake.

That's not what the initial brake setting does. If you set initial brake to 50%, a slight touch of the brakes would jump straight to 50% brake strength. It's not a delay.

my esc must be broken....because when it's on 0 the brake is instant and when its on 50% the buggy travels a few feet before it really stops. btw what esc do you have?

Hobbywing Xerun 3.1. The brake settings should be pretty similar to the XR10. Check the manual and it explains what the setting means.

Ok JC3, your question here got my interest enuff to finally get my 25.5 car going. I know what just changing max brake force has done to improve my driving over winter. Will see what and how this effects this car.
Base setting are 80 percent max brake. I raced with this setting in USGT last summer, very little brakes.
And it shows initial brake force as “ drag brake 5 percent.

Did first runs with it after adjusting this. Good start. Weather not looking positive for next few days. May need weekend before can get results

I've got mine set to: Drag = 0, Initial = 40, and Max = 100. I'd like to say that it works well, but honestly, I'm just now starting to get used to using the brakes intentionally and with some skill. I do however feel okay about this configuration so far.

Interested to see/hear your experience.

Same setting here.

I’d been running max=100
Drag=0
Initial=0