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Looking for ideas for a fun low cost race class

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Looking for ideas for a fun low cost race class

Old 08-20-2017, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
When people ask the inevitable question, how do we get more new people into race, the common denominator is "must be cheap to get people interested". I think the bigger question is how do you get "kids" away from video games and how do you get parents to invest the time to take their kid to a track to practice and race.

If you are going to run spec class, you have to keep it very restricted and you have to tech the vehicles. Racing by it's very nature is a competitive sport. Add the "youth soccer" mentality of not keeping score and everyone gets a trophy and it is even more difficult. Tamiya has the GT Pro Spec class. Very limited hop-ups on their lower end TT02 chassis. But unless you get a very large turnout that you can have an expert and sportsman class, those "new people", if they have to run against better racers because of experience or set-up skill eventually get tires of being at the back of the pack.

If a track is going to try to build this kind of class, it is most likely going to be a one off at their track. And the bigger picture on these limited spec classes is once the novelty wears off, people start dropping out and then the class slowly dies off because the "spec car class" you created would not be competitive in any of the other regular classes.

Why not just do a better job at locally policing the driver skill in the classes. Start the newer drivers in Novice. If someone comes in with a $ 1,000 car and waxes the field the first two races, bump them up to sportsman immediately. But also don't let the guy who has been racing for ten years but wants to race on the cheap with his ten year old chassis and five year old motors and batteries and one set of tires a year race in novice just so they can win. Most people at your local track know who each other is and their skill level. But it usually takes the track owner to have to be the bad guy to bump someone up a class but they are hesitant as they do not want to upset a paying customer.

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I don't agree with ad-hoc "policing" of driver skill. If it's something that needs to be policed, it needs to be written in the rules. The rules (usually) don't specify driver skill. And if being forced to bump up a class requires someone to buy new equipment (ie a new motor type), that's likely to just drive them away.
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Old 08-21-2017, 05:17 AM
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Stock Slash 12T brushed. Box stock, 7.2v 5000mah lipo. This was an amazing class to race in when it was around. Only gripe was the guys who bought 50x 12t Titan motors to find the one that had the highest rpm....

$189 out of the box. Tough as nails so breakage is kept to a minimum. Tires last forever and speeds aren't out of control.
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Old 08-21-2017, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by gigaplex
I don't agree with ad-hoc "policing" of driver skill. If it's something that needs to be policed, it needs to be written in the rules. The rules (usually) don't specify driver skill. And if being forced to bump up a class requires someone to buy new equipment (ie a new motor type), that's likely to just drive them away.
I get the idea. Especially if a track or group has a crowded novice class. But don't really get the impression that most places do.
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Old 08-21-2017, 02:18 PM
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My take on the subject is the RC needs new people with better attitudes coming in and experienced racers need better attitudes towards the new guys. Money is usually not as big of a issue as people make it out to be, otherwise Vegas would have gone under a long time ago. Point is RC have to be a great experience for you and for other people sharing the same track. Last last week a new comer at my local track was very upset when people where yelling at him for parking the car in the middle of front straight and causing people to crash into it and such. Needless to say nobody win in this situation. The new person never asked people what is the right and wrong things to do on the track and the experienced guys didn't exactly try to approach him afterwards to explain to him either. It's things like these that prevent people from having fun and stick with RC more so than the price of the cars and equipment.

However I'm fully onboard with a well designed class for newbies that is cheap, fun, fair, and low maintenance.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by tobyzhang
Money is usually not as big of a issue as people make it out to be, otherwise Vegas would have gone under a long time ago.
See that's where you are wrong IMO... Vegas lives on the 3% of the population that goes there, many more stay at home and wish they could go!

In RC racing, the same thing happens.. You have people willing to spend 50$ every club race on new tires because it gives them an edge. People are willing to smoke a $100 motor just to win a club race..

Then there are people like me who also have kids in the sport and are forced to race under a budget- trying to make a $79 motor last as long as humanly possible... Using a $50 set of tires for 2 months (8 races) or more if I can manage it.. Hell I've bought the fast/money guys used tires and wheels (1 or 2 race old tires) for ten bucks..

That's where a spec class comes in.. and as I said earlier, the reason my brother's boys and my daughters will be out there in 25.5 blinky legends cars running spec gearing.. They may never have anyone else join them- but it will keep it cheap for us and make it fair and level for them and if anyone joins them.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by darksiede
See that's where you are wrong IMO... Vegas lives on the 3% of the population that goes there, many more stay at home and wish they could go!

In RC racing, the same thing happens.. You have people willing to spend 50$ every club race on new tires because it gives them an edge. People are willing to smoke a $100 motor just to win a club race..

Then there are people like me who also have kids in the sport and are forced to race under a budget- trying to make a $79 motor last as long as humanly possible... Using a $50 set of tires for 2 months (8 races) or more if I can manage it.. Hell I've bought the fast/money guys used tires and wheels (1 or 2 race old tires) for ten bucks..

That's where a spec class comes in.. and as I said earlier, the reason my brother's boys and my daughters will be out there in 25.5 blinky legends cars running spec gearing.. They may never have anyone else join them- but it will keep it cheap for us and make it fair and level for them and if anyone joins them.
I don't think people like us own tracks or hobby shops.
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Old 08-22-2017, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by prien007
I don't think people like us own tracks or hobby shops.
What do you mean by that? I love to open place. Maybe not a track but someplace to run once winter arrives. Cold doesn't stop me, but it does most that I know. Once temps drop below freezing most I know either shutdown till spring or run small scale stuff, like MiniZ.
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Old 08-22-2017, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Billy Kelly
What do you mean by that? I love to open place. Maybe not a track but someplace to run once winter arrives. Cold doesn't stop me, but it does most that I know. Once temps drop below freezing most I know either shutdown till spring or run small scale stuff, like MiniZ.
I mean most tracks I have seen or experienced aren't run by business people. They are run by ex racers/ or cool kids. They cater to that genre only or let me sell you a basher and now get out of my shop. They don't focus on beginner or keeping an easily accessed class that is completely understandable. The conversation immediately drifts to what a-hole is in my way while I'm running my perfect hot lap around my blue grooved clay "offroad" course indoors.....

I couldn't even begin to tell you what would be needed to run my local track. No rules are posted or are easy to find. No clarification of rules or anything. I would have to work to give them my money. Seems strange to me. Nothing about that screams fun.
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Old 08-22-2017, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by darksiede
See that's where you are wrong IMO... Vegas lives on the 3% of the population that goes there, many more stay at home and wish they could go!

In RC racing, the same thing happens.. You have people willing to spend 50$ every club race on new tires because it gives them an edge. People are willing to smoke a $100 motor just to win a club race..

Then there are people like me who also have kids in the sport and are forced to race under a budget- trying to make a $79 motor last as long as humanly possible... Using a $50 set of tires for 2 months (8 races) or more if I can manage it.. Hell I've bought the fast/money guys used tires and wheels (1 or 2 race old tires) for ten bucks..

That's where a spec class comes in.. and as I said earlier, the reason my brother's boys and my daughters will be out there in 25.5 blinky legends cars running spec gearing.. They may never have anyone else join them- but it will keep it cheap for us and make it fair and level for them and if anyone joins them.
I understand where you coming form but the point is not we should not care about the cost but rather accept there are people willing to spend tons of money and also accept there are people who are cost conscious. Thus I fully support a fun, cheap, fair, and low maintenance class, that will become widely accepted I may add tailored to those needs, especially for new comers.

The Vegas example is trying to show that today people are still willing to spend big money for things that are fun and exciting. It's not there to down play the cost issue many faces with racing.
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Old 08-22-2017, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by prien007
I mean most tracks I have seen or experienced aren't run by business people. They are run by ex racers/ or cool kids. They cater to that genre only or let me sell you a basher and now get out of my shop. They don't focus on beginner or keeping an easily accessed class that is completely understandable. The conversation immediately drifts to what a-hole is in my way while I'm running my perfect hot lap around my blue grooved clay "offroad" course indoors.....

I couldn't even begin to tell you what would be needed to run my local track. No rules are posted or are easy to find. No clarification of rules or anything. I would have to work to give them my money. Seems strange to me. Nothing about that screams fun.
Gotta have a passion for it if going to own a track. Business people smart enuff to see how small the race market is. The operating cost have to high, especially for an indoor facility. I know the monthly rent killed my idea before it really even started

Track owners are in a tough spot. Try to hard to bring in new people. Risk driving off the regular customer. For most places there's no real reason to keep a basic class running. Maybe some places get a walk in crowd. But it would need to be very consistent to keep a novice class on the schedule.
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Old 08-22-2017, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by darksiede
See that's where you are wrong IMO... Vegas lives on the 3% of the population that goes there, many more stay at home and wish they could go!

In RC racing, the same thing happens.. You have people willing to spend 50$ every club race on new tires because it gives them an edge. People are willing to smoke a $100 motor just to win a club race..

Then there are people like me who also have kids in the sport and are forced to race under a budget- trying to make a $79 motor last as long as humanly possible... Using a $50 set of tires for 2 months (8 races) or more if I can manage it.. Hell I've bought the fast/money guys used tires and wheels (1 or 2 race old tires) for ten bucks..

That's where a spec class comes in.. and as I said earlier, the reason my brother's boys and my daughters will be out there in 25.5 blinky legends cars running spec gearing.. They may never have anyone else join them- but it will keep it cheap for us and make it fair and level for them and if anyone joins them.
Around Melbourne Australia I've run into maybe a dozen or so people who saw the track and started asking questions. Every time the question of price came up, they were gone. The only "new" faces I've seen on the track are either older people getting back into the hobby after a hiatus, or kids of people who are already racing. There have been a couple of people who have brought cars to the track to play around, but they're usually either monster trucks, drifters or cheap Walmart-style toy grade cars. We let them do their thing but we know they won't buy all new gear to start racing.
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Old 08-22-2017, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Billy Kelly
Gotta have a passion for it if going to own a track. Business people smart enuff to see how small the race market is. The operating cost have to high, especially for an indoor facility. I know the monthly rent killed my idea before it really even started

Track owners are in a tough spot. Try to hard to bring in new people. Risk driving off the regular customer. For most places there's no real reason to keep a basic class running. Maybe some places get a walk in crowd. But it would need to be very consistent to keep a novice class on the schedule.
Our tracks are usually city council owned, and we run the clubs as non-profit volunteer groups. The councils offer grants that help cover major construction, and the membership fees covers ongoing costs. I don't know if that sort of thing is feasible where you are.
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Old 08-22-2017, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Billy Kelly
Gotta have a passion for it if going to own a track. Business people smart enuff to see how small the race market is. The operating cost have to high, especially for an indoor facility. I know the monthly rent killed my idea before it really even started

Track owners are in a tough spot. Try to hard to bring in new people. Risk driving off the regular customer. For most places there's no real reason to keep a basic class running. Maybe some places get a walk in crowd. But it would need to be very consistent to keep a novice class on the schedule.
I understand that predicament. But, I don't get ignoring the fact that complex classes for seasoned racers are too complex for any normal person to be interested in. That one has no apex for people to enter into racing at this or that track. I don't know that I buy into the multiple classes necessary to keep interest like some suppose, or the usual complaint that racers want to grow into a higher class. I'm not sure any greater competition occurs at "higher" classes only the ability to more personally decide your equipment.

Fun and low cost racing is everyone using the cheapest high quality kit that is readily available, all the using the same kit from the same manufacturer, all agreeing to use the same basic equipment that is reasonably priced and then ruthlessly enforcing those rules of use and price capping any optionals. Although, a run what you brung breakout seems fun too, some like to run similar cars because that is what they see on TV. I know Legends don't get a lot of press nor does spec slash much anymore, but these truly the most accessible versions of racing. Anyone could walk in and invest the very minimum and get a reasonable experience. Then turn around and go home and run these in their driveway for no more than they would have spent anyways. The track can easily advertise the entry requirements and rent if they would like to. I don't know how a track gets repeat customers, or ones that stay interested in participating if the track is expecting everyone that shows up to already know whats up when they come in.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by gigaplex
Around Melbourne Australia I've run into maybe a dozen or so people who saw the track and started asking questions. Every time the question of price came up, they were gone. The only "new" faces I've seen on the track are either older people getting back into the hobby after a hiatus, or kids of people who are already racing. There have been a couple of people who have brought cars to the track to play around, but they're usually either monster trucks, drifters or cheap Walmart-style toy grade cars. We let them do their thing but we know they won't buy all new gear to start racing.
I'm the new racer in my group. And only 2 of us have stayed of 5 that started in June. It took 6 years for me to try racing. It's wasn't a track even. It was a group that setup their own parking lot races.

Been asked the cost question countless times. And get the same stunned reaction. Even worse when they ask how many vehicles I own or have owned. Thing is I also run in a open for fun 1/18 group. $1,000 Touring cars is intimidating, but how about a $100 brushed touring or SCT/buggy. We'd had good turnouts previous years. This year vehicles sell, just can't get them to come back and run.

The other question is how fast do they go.
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Old 08-22-2017, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by darksiede
See that's where you are wrong IMO... Vegas lives on the 3% of the population that goes there, many more stay at home and wish they could go!

In RC racing, the same thing happens.. You have people willing to spend 50$ every club race on new tires because it gives them an edge. People are willing to smoke a $100 motor just to win a club race..

Then there are people like me who also have kids in the sport and are forced to race under a budget- trying to make a $79 motor last as long as humanly possible... Using a $50 set of tires for 2 months (8 races) or more if I can manage it.. Hell I've bought the fast/money guys used tires and wheels (1 or 2 race old tires) for ten bucks..

That's where a spec class comes in.. and as I said earlier, the reason my brother's boys and my daughters will be out there in 25.5 blinky legends cars running spec gearing.. They may never have anyone else join them- but it will keep it cheap for us and make it fair and level for them and if anyone joins them.
So based on your comments, what do you consider fun ? Only if you can go out and race your $ 79 motor and well worn tires..... and finish at the top ? In any kind of amateur sports, there will always be a variance in incomes. If fun is just being able to go out and run (practice or racing) with older equipment, hang out with friends and family and enjoy the time, who cares how much you spend or where you finish in the race, right ? The problem is when the idea of "fun" is tied into having to be a class that is cheap AND everyone can win. That is not reality. You can spec the heck out of everything but what is next ? It is unfair the person who is winning can afford to practice twice a week but the person who only wants to run once a month (due to time available, costs or whatever) feels they are being "out spent" and it is unfair they don't win ?

The best way to form a "cheap fun class" is to get some friends together, create your own class with your own rules, make sure you have enough to make your own class at your local track and support your local track by continuing to race every week or every other week depending on their schedule. But when someone outside your group wants to join, what do you do ? Sorry, you cannot race in our class because you are to fast ?

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