151LikesPreferred Racing Surface
11-14-2023, 01:52 PM
#31
The track in post 15 looks pretty awesome.
Regarding carpet tracks, most of the ones I see look to be dedicated to Off Road or On Road. Is anyone using them for both? Run and On Road program on one day/night, add jumps & obstacles and run an Off Road program the next day/night. If this is not already being done, why? Alternate days for Off Road Practice/On Road Practice. I ask because when I raced 1/5th scale 5B's and 5T's ran the same day as F1 and Touring. For the off road vehicles we'd throw out some jumps and plow discs for obstacles, which took about 5-10 minutes. Yes there will be compromises, but I would assume two different race programs under one roof would help keep the track alive, because it would serve more racers.
To answer the OP's question, I have not raced in 10 plus years, so at this point I'd race on any surface available, however if I raced outdoor Off Road I would prefer to race on a proper dirt track that is kind on tires and not on one of these highly prepped high grip tracks you can run slicks on, that's not Off Road and in my opinion you may as well just race on carpet if you want to race on a high grip surface. As far as On Road goes, I raced primarily on carpet and would prefer that because it's indoors and is easier on tires.
I think racing indoors on carpet has a lot of advantages. Indoors is easier on the body (your not getting baked by the elements on hot days), it's easier on tires which brings the cost of racing down, if you are running on multiple tracks using the same type of carpet your setup will more than likely remained unchanged which makes things that much easier, like others have mentioned it's cleaner which again makes things easier, and it's cheaper and easier to lay down and maintain a carpet track than a dirt of any kind Off Road track. If I were to open a track, I would do my best to have a separate On Road and Off Road carpet track and if this was not possible I'd make it a multi use track.
Regarding carpet tracks, most of the ones I see look to be dedicated to Off Road or On Road. Is anyone using them for both? Run and On Road program on one day/night, add jumps & obstacles and run an Off Road program the next day/night. If this is not already being done, why? Alternate days for Off Road Practice/On Road Practice. I ask because when I raced 1/5th scale 5B's and 5T's ran the same day as F1 and Touring. For the off road vehicles we'd throw out some jumps and plow discs for obstacles, which took about 5-10 minutes. Yes there will be compromises, but I would assume two different race programs under one roof would help keep the track alive, because it would serve more racers.
To answer the OP's question, I have not raced in 10 plus years, so at this point I'd race on any surface available, however if I raced outdoor Off Road I would prefer to race on a proper dirt track that is kind on tires and not on one of these highly prepped high grip tracks you can run slicks on, that's not Off Road and in my opinion you may as well just race on carpet if you want to race on a high grip surface. As far as On Road goes, I raced primarily on carpet and would prefer that because it's indoors and is easier on tires.
I think racing indoors on carpet has a lot of advantages. Indoors is easier on the body (your not getting baked by the elements on hot days), it's easier on tires which brings the cost of racing down, if you are running on multiple tracks using the same type of carpet your setup will more than likely remained unchanged which makes things that much easier, like others have mentioned it's cleaner which again makes things easier, and it's cheaper and easier to lay down and maintain a carpet track than a dirt of any kind Off Road track. If I were to open a track, I would do my best to have a separate On Road and Off Road carpet track and if this was not possible I'd make it a multi use track.
Last edited by MULMZ2; 11-14-2023 at 02:37 PM.
11-14-2023, 02:06 PM
#32
Tech Prophet
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Far south suburbs of Chicago area
Posts: 17,642
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
The track in post 15 looks pretty awesome.
Regarding carpet tracks, most of the ones I see look to be dedicated to Off Road or On Road. Is anyone using them for both? Run and On Road program on one day/night, add jumps & obstacles and run an Off Road program the next day/night. If not would this benefit the track? Alternate days for Off Road Practice/On Road Practice. I ask because when I raced 1/5th scale 5B's and 5T's ran the same day as F1 and Touring. For the off road vehicles we'd throw out some jumps and plow discs for obstacles, which took about 5-10 minutes.
Regarding carpet tracks, most of the ones I see look to be dedicated to Off Road or On Road. Is anyone using them for both? Run and On Road program on one day/night, add jumps & obstacles and run an Off Road program the next day/night. If not would this benefit the track? Alternate days for Off Road Practice/On Road Practice. I ask because when I raced 1/5th scale 5B's and 5T's ran the same day as F1 and Touring. For the off road vehicles we'd throw out some jumps and plow discs for obstacles, which took about 5-10 minutes.
Some also run oval. Carpet is more versatile for different types of racing.
11-14-2023, 04:14 PM
#33
The majority of my racing took place outside, during the summer, racing off road on grass & dirt. 'Proper' off road racing. Or perhaps a less controversial way of putting it: 'actual' off road racing, in 1/8th and 1/10th (4 classes).
Indoors, we used to race off road buggies on hard, polished floor, with wooden jumps - no carpets. Traction was so minimal, it didn't really matter what motor you had. Sadly, the tyre of choice at that time was the Schumacher mini pins on the yellow compound. 1 set of tyres would last 1 meeting. If you were super competitive, you would use 2 sets of tyres per meeting, then sell them.
Then we raced at a venue with carpet for off road racing. Big jumps, road rail markings, banked turns etc. With traction came speed, necessitating good batteries, motors and tyres. Additives were advantageous but were banned (oil of winter green). Off road buggies in this environment used to break, jump track markings and generally didn't work as harmoniously as touring cars indoors. This ultimately meant that winter seasons indoors became touring car only.
Now in the UK, there are plenty of clubs doing 1/10th off road indoors on carpet. It looks a good laugh and new buggies are much more robust.
Clay tracks indoors are very rare here - Neo at Harper Adams is about the only one I can think of. I've always liked the idea of the big Supercross style jumps, big air etc, but there's simply nowhere anywhere near where I live to try it.
So for me - touring cars, carpet all the way. For 1/8th Off Road - Grass/Dirt. For 1/10th Off Road Grass/Dirt.
I appreciate that my choices would be contrary to the current trend for 1/10th buggies to all be carpet editions. Take it easy on me!
Indoors, we used to race off road buggies on hard, polished floor, with wooden jumps - no carpets. Traction was so minimal, it didn't really matter what motor you had. Sadly, the tyre of choice at that time was the Schumacher mini pins on the yellow compound. 1 set of tyres would last 1 meeting. If you were super competitive, you would use 2 sets of tyres per meeting, then sell them.
Then we raced at a venue with carpet for off road racing. Big jumps, road rail markings, banked turns etc. With traction came speed, necessitating good batteries, motors and tyres. Additives were advantageous but were banned (oil of winter green). Off road buggies in this environment used to break, jump track markings and generally didn't work as harmoniously as touring cars indoors. This ultimately meant that winter seasons indoors became touring car only.
Now in the UK, there are plenty of clubs doing 1/10th off road indoors on carpet. It looks a good laugh and new buggies are much more robust.
Clay tracks indoors are very rare here - Neo at Harper Adams is about the only one I can think of. I've always liked the idea of the big Supercross style jumps, big air etc, but there's simply nowhere anywhere near where I live to try it.
So for me - touring cars, carpet all the way. For 1/8th Off Road - Grass/Dirt. For 1/10th Off Road Grass/Dirt.
I appreciate that my choices would be contrary to the current trend for 1/10th buggies to all be carpet editions. Take it easy on me!
11-14-2023, 08:15 PM
#34
Tech Adept
I know a few carpet tracks that are off road only. I’ve been to a number that run both. Run Saturday on road then switch for Sunday. Or Saturday off road and switch for Sunday. My two local tracks are this way. Island Speedway in Iowa runs off road only. They used to run both but on road number dropped. So they expanded into 1 really big off road carpet track.RCOne in Detroit used to have on road once a month. Grand River in Grand Rapids runs both, Queen City near Cincinnati runs both. TR Speedway near Pittsburgh runs both. MRCR in South Bend runs both on same night. Just moved the ramps during each round.
Some also run oval. Carpet is more versatile for different types of racing.
Some also run oval. Carpet is more versatile for different types of racing.
11-15-2023, 07:04 AM
#35
Tech Adept
I guess I considered that occasional as I never go to the points, trophy or other events on the weekends. I find club racing on a weekday night when most aren't too wound up more fun. I try to be competitive, but mostly I'm there just to have some fun and learn something new from the better, more experienced racers. Lucky that most at the track on a weekday night are very helpful.
11-15-2023, 08:08 AM
#36
Tech Prophet
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Far south suburbs of Chicago area
Posts: 17,642
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
I guess I considered that occasional as I never go to the points, trophy or other events on the weekends. I find club racing on a weekday night when most aren't too wound up more fun. I try to be competitive, but mostly I'm there just to have some fun and learn something new from the better, more experienced racers. Lucky that most at the track on a weekday night are very helpful.
Best thing I did was start going to new places. Never expected to.
I get the thing about avoiding trophy races. They can feel overwhelming. And it’s hard to get track time. But once get passed it, they car fun. Can be a long day
11-16-2023, 01:07 AM
#37
The track in post 15 looks pretty awesome.
Regarding carpet tracks, most of the ones I see look to be dedicated to Off Road or On Road. Is anyone using them for both? Run and On Road program on one day/night, add jumps & obstacles and run an Off Road program the next day/night. If this is not already being done, why? Alternate days for Off Road Practice/On Road Practice. I ask because when I raced 1/5th scale 5B's and 5T's ran the same day as F1 and Touring. For the off road vehicles we'd throw out some jumps and plow discs for obstacles, which took about 5-10 minutes. Yes there will be compromises, but I would assume two different race programs under one roof would help keep the track alive, because it would serve more racers.
To answer the OP's question, I have not raced in 10 plus years, so at this point I'd race on any surface available, however if I raced outdoor Off Road I would prefer to race on a proper dirt track that is kind on tires and not on one of these highly prepped high grip tracks you can run slicks on, that's not Off Road and in my opinion you may as well just race on carpet if you want to race on a high grip surface. As far as On Road goes, I raced primarily on carpet and would prefer that because it's indoors and is easier on tires.
I think racing indoors on carpet has a lot of advantages. Indoors is easier on the body (your not getting baked by the elements on hot days), it's easier on tires which brings the cost of racing down, if you are running on multiple tracks using the same type of carpet your setup will more than likely remained unchanged which makes things that much easier, like others have mentioned it's cleaner which again makes things easier, and it's cheaper and easier to lay down and maintain a carpet track than a dirt of any kind Off Road track. If I were to open a track, I would do my best to have a separate On Road and Off Road carpet track and if this was not possible I'd make it a multi use track.
Regarding carpet tracks, most of the ones I see look to be dedicated to Off Road or On Road. Is anyone using them for both? Run and On Road program on one day/night, add jumps & obstacles and run an Off Road program the next day/night. If this is not already being done, why? Alternate days for Off Road Practice/On Road Practice. I ask because when I raced 1/5th scale 5B's and 5T's ran the same day as F1 and Touring. For the off road vehicles we'd throw out some jumps and plow discs for obstacles, which took about 5-10 minutes. Yes there will be compromises, but I would assume two different race programs under one roof would help keep the track alive, because it would serve more racers.
To answer the OP's question, I have not raced in 10 plus years, so at this point I'd race on any surface available, however if I raced outdoor Off Road I would prefer to race on a proper dirt track that is kind on tires and not on one of these highly prepped high grip tracks you can run slicks on, that's not Off Road and in my opinion you may as well just race on carpet if you want to race on a high grip surface. As far as On Road goes, I raced primarily on carpet and would prefer that because it's indoors and is easier on tires.
I think racing indoors on carpet has a lot of advantages. Indoors is easier on the body (your not getting baked by the elements on hot days), it's easier on tires which brings the cost of racing down, if you are running on multiple tracks using the same type of carpet your setup will more than likely remained unchanged which makes things that much easier, like others have mentioned it's cleaner which again makes things easier, and it's cheaper and easier to lay down and maintain a carpet track than a dirt of any kind Off Road track. If I were to open a track, I would do my best to have a separate On Road and Off Road carpet track and if this was not possible I'd make it a multi use track.
Onroad carpet is a bit too grippy for offroad. Offroad cars are hard on carpet. Generally dual use tracks have simple lame jumps. Good jumps are kinda heavy and hard to move. Onroad has a sub floor. Offroad doesnt require that. Onroad requires a smooth carpet and maintenance. Offroad carpet can be a torn up wrinkled disaster, which is actually preferred.
And carpet tracks can never be too big. The larger tracks are absolutely more fun. The postage stamp tracks are kinda lame. So 2 small tracks, in one medium sized facility, should be avoided at all cost.
Two large size tracks in one building is very possible, but rare. I'm lucky to have exactly that within a 1.5hr drive. And one small onroad track, and one tiny dual use track nearby.
Last edited by Zerodefect; 11-16-2023 at 01:46 AM.
11-16-2023, 05:40 AM
#38
Tech Prophet
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Far south suburbs of Chicago area
Posts: 17,642
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Same track for onroad and offroad is less than optimal.
Onroad carpet is a bit too grippy for offroad. Offroad cars are hard on carpet. Generally dual use tracks have simple lame jumps. Good jumps are kinda heavy and hard to move. Onroad has a sub floor. Offroad doesnt require that. Onroad requires a smooth carpet and maintenance. Offroad carpet can be a torn up wrinkled disaster, which is actually preferred.
And carpet tracks can never be too big. The larger tracks are absolutely more fun. The postage stamp tracks are kinda lame. So 2 small tracks, in one medium sized facility, should be avoided at all cost.
Two large size tracks in one building is very possible, but rare. I'm lucky to have exactly that within a 1.5hr drive. And one small onroad track, and one tiny dual use track nearby.
Onroad carpet is a bit too grippy for offroad. Offroad cars are hard on carpet. Generally dual use tracks have simple lame jumps. Good jumps are kinda heavy and hard to move. Onroad has a sub floor. Offroad doesnt require that. Onroad requires a smooth carpet and maintenance. Offroad carpet can be a torn up wrinkled disaster, which is actually preferred.
And carpet tracks can never be too big. The larger tracks are absolutely more fun. The postage stamp tracks are kinda lame. So 2 small tracks, in one medium sized facility, should be avoided at all cost.
Two large size tracks in one building is very possible, but rare. I'm lucky to have exactly that within a 1.5hr drive. And one small onroad track, and one tiny dual use track nearby.
11-16-2023, 06:58 AM
#39
There's also the advantage of not spending 20 minutes cleaning the dirt off you car after every run
11-16-2023, 07:39 AM
#40
Agreed.
I'll eat my hat if Xray doesn't have a TC chassis prototype, with XB4 arms, shocks, and towers on it. You'd have to beef the hinge pin holders with a couple extra screws, lengthen and widen the chassis to protect the motor and battery, and leave room for lead weight. But that's no problem.
But it still ain't onroad with jumps. It's way harder than it looks. Faster than most onroad classes.
I'll eat my hat if Xray doesn't have a TC chassis prototype, with XB4 arms, shocks, and towers on it. You'd have to beef the hinge pin holders with a couple extra screws, lengthen and widen the chassis to protect the motor and battery, and leave room for lead weight. But that's no problem.
But it still ain't onroad with jumps. It's way harder than it looks. Faster than most onroad classes.
11-16-2023, 08:19 AM
#41
I've run 1/10th Buggy (2wd & 4wd) on carpet indoor tracks over the winter months in the UK. This was very popular for a time and seems to be going through something of a resurgence. I concur that buggies need far less cleaning when raced on carpet.
Carpet versions of the main buggies are now available, utilising components designed to take advantage of all the extra traction. Different diff heights etc. So clearly, there are enough people that like racing buggies on carpet.
I prefer racing off road buggies off road, on dirt, grass etc. It's good to have extra space to let them unwind. But over the winter, given the choice of no racing Vs racing buggies indoors on carpet - I'd take the latter option, please.
Our club, which I was chairman for a number of years, did extremely well catering for buggies and touring cars over the winter indoors.
Touring cars found favour, but we didn't exclude those that wanted to race buggies.
With touring cars, we ran control tyres and limited the motors to Stock and 19turn classes back in the brushed motor days. This formula worked extremely well for indoor tracks, kept the costs down and made it fairer. Anyone thinking that this wasn't competitive is mistaken - it was used for a national series for years and attracted some very prominent drivers, including 2 world champions.
These tight, indoor tracks required racers to 'gear to the track', even at the bigger venues (basically gym/leisure centres) From memory, rounds were every 2 - 3 weeks from November through to March, best 6 to count. These were affiliated races and were fully scrutineered.
Clubs need to cater for the majority in any particular area. Times are hard. But RC racing is here to stay, right?
Not being collosal dicks to each other really helps with that.
Carpet versions of the main buggies are now available, utilising components designed to take advantage of all the extra traction. Different diff heights etc. So clearly, there are enough people that like racing buggies on carpet.
I prefer racing off road buggies off road, on dirt, grass etc. It's good to have extra space to let them unwind. But over the winter, given the choice of no racing Vs racing buggies indoors on carpet - I'd take the latter option, please.
Our club, which I was chairman for a number of years, did extremely well catering for buggies and touring cars over the winter indoors.
Touring cars found favour, but we didn't exclude those that wanted to race buggies.
With touring cars, we ran control tyres and limited the motors to Stock and 19turn classes back in the brushed motor days. This formula worked extremely well for indoor tracks, kept the costs down and made it fairer. Anyone thinking that this wasn't competitive is mistaken - it was used for a national series for years and attracted some very prominent drivers, including 2 world champions.
These tight, indoor tracks required racers to 'gear to the track', even at the bigger venues (basically gym/leisure centres) From memory, rounds were every 2 - 3 weeks from November through to March, best 6 to count. These were affiliated races and were fully scrutineered.
Clubs need to cater for the majority in any particular area. Times are hard. But RC racing is here to stay, right?
Not being collosal dicks to each other really helps with that.
11-16-2023, 08:26 AM
#42
11-16-2023, 08:38 AM
#43
Tech Prophet
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Far south suburbs of Chicago area
Posts: 17,642
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
My point was that if someone sees carpet as on road only. There’s no discussion. No pro or con. It’s an absolute. Cold temperatures mess with clay during winter. I’m planning trip this weekend to a track that run clay during spring/summer. But run carpet during winter because of problems cold was causing
11-16-2023, 12:20 PM
#44
Durango did what? They were gone before I started racing.
My point was that if someone sees carpet as on road only. There’s no discussion. No pro or con. It’s an absolute. Cold temperatures mess with clay during winter. I’m planning trip this weekend to a track that run clay during spring/summer. But run carpet during winter because of problems cold was causing
My point was that if someone sees carpet as on road only. There’s no discussion. No pro or con. It’s an absolute. Cold temperatures mess with clay during winter. I’m planning trip this weekend to a track that run clay during spring/summer. But run carpet during winter because of problems cold was causing
I just thought you'd be amused!
Durango is now basically Arrma.
Carpet isn't really off road, but off road cars can be good to race on road. Let's be honest - 1/10th tracks have to be groomed and manicured in this day and age. It isn't 1987 any more (those tracks were gnarly). So I get where you're coming from. Jumps really add an extra dimension to racing.
I would love to race on a clay track, but they just don't exist anywhere where I live.
Racing outdoors isn't feasible during the winter for most of us anyway, so if indoors means carpet - so be it. It's not a choice unless you live in a warm climate.
Or live next to an indoor equestrian ménage that also hosts RC racing.
11-16-2023, 01:01 PM
#45
Tech Prophet
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Far south suburbs of Chicago area
Posts: 17,642
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Durango did a 1/10th off road buggy based on the TC3 touring car. Straight up. I knew what you were saying.
I just thought you'd be amused!
Durango is now basically Arrma.
Carpet isn't really off road, but off road cars can be good to race on road. Let's be honest - 1/10th tracks have to be groomed and manicured in this day and age. It isn't 1987 any more (those tracks were gnarly). So I get where you're coming from. Jumps really add an extra dimension to racing.
I would love to race on a clay track, but they just don't exist anywhere where I live.
Racing outdoors isn't feasible during the winter for most of us anyway, so if indoors means carpet - so be it. It's not a choice unless you live in a warm climate.
Or live next to an indoor equestrian ménage that also hosts RC racing.
I just thought you'd be amused!
Durango is now basically Arrma.
Carpet isn't really off road, but off road cars can be good to race on road. Let's be honest - 1/10th tracks have to be groomed and manicured in this day and age. It isn't 1987 any more (those tracks were gnarly). So I get where you're coming from. Jumps really add an extra dimension to racing.
I would love to race on a clay track, but they just don't exist anywhere where I live.
Racing outdoors isn't feasible during the winter for most of us anyway, so if indoors means carpet - so be it. It's not a choice unless you live in a warm climate.
Or live next to an indoor equestrian ménage that also hosts RC racing.
Back in the last months of the old URC forum, I almost bought a durango TC. Forum shutdown and that member didn’t come over this way.
And yes, back then I thought carpet off road sounded silly. But started seeing some of the videos for it from overseas. Thought it looked crazy fast. Even now it looks crazy fast when I’m not driving in it.