Wild Cherry

Not quite right , Darwin created the Theory of Natural Selection , no such thing as "Theory of Evolution" ...

A lot people think evolution is a theory and it is not ....

Lilja

I try to keep myself out of religious debates normaly but I just have to write something here, and Ill try to do that with a neutral standpoint.
First of all I would like to point out that evolution is not a theory. Darwins version of evolution is called evolution through natural selection, THAT is a theory. But the fact that we have evolved and pretty much all other species along with us, is NOT a theory. We know this cause we have observed it happening and we have fossil records dating back millions, even billions of years that we can follow (with a few exeptions). We also have a clear understanding of how cells and DNA works. The evidence is so overwhelming infact that you cant deny evolution as a fact. But the cause of it is as you said still a theory, called natural selection.

So by saying this I have never claimed that god does not exist. I just want to clarify that alot of what the religious community believes science tells you is missunderstood and wrong.
If I where you I would actualy start reading up on biology and genetics before I would continue my belief in the bible.

Jsaves

iTrader: (4)

You want to stay neutral, but you question the fact of the Bible?
So many people have tried to discount the Word of God and failed.
Remember something very important, we were created, not some random accident. Earth was created in a wonderful harmony and we as humans have done a good job of trying to destroy it.
Whether you believe it or not, God is my Lord and yours.
Jesus died for everyone's sin, including yours whether you believe it or not.
I pray that you, and any who agree with you see the light and are saved.
Remember Eternity is at stake
God Bless

raycerZ

iTrader: (2)

Belief in the Bible and belief in Jesus can be two different things. Thomas Jefferson crossed out everything in his bible except for the teachings of Jesus. Fortunately my bible has Jesus' words in red text. This is all I read and try to live by in my bible; the rest of the book is just a distraction.

BTW, I'm not so aloof like many Christians I know to believe that I'll actually go to heaven just by getting baptized and accepting Jesus. I haven't learned to (and probably can't) love my enemies and donating the money I was saving for LiPo batteries to An Angel In Queens is a far cry from selling all of my possessions and giving them to the poor. But I'll settle for not going to hell!

Lilja

Ive never questioned anything, not even the bible.But since we can now prove that we have evolved from simpler organisms we can not be ignorant and say that thats never happend, ignorance leads to blind faith, and blind faith kills our ability to think for our selves, which is never a good thing.
However despite evolution being absolute truth it still doesnt rule out any theory of creation. We can still have been created by god, just not in the form were in now. Science cant explain how life on earth started, so theres god for you if you will.

raycerZ

iTrader: (2)

You SHOULD question anything you don't know or are not sure about. If people are more skeptical and would question things more, maybe we wouldn't have so many suicide bombers...

Lilja

I ment in my previous post :P I am very skeptical to alot of things, most of the things in the bible, even though I think the bible is more of a metafor than a word by word story about real events.

When it comes to god existing or not, well he could exist, theres also a possibility that science is right and he doesnt. We might never know so what we believe in that question is highly personal.

Wild Cherry

You can learn a lot about a Watch maker by taking apart his Watch and learning how it works...

WYLDTHING

iTrader: (159)

Question for you...

You suggest that WE read the material you are suggesting, but I wonder if you have taken the time to seriously read ALL the Bible?

The Bible has proven itself through centuries with different prophecies constantly coming true...yet this theory of evolution has never proven anything that doesn't use human theories and means to measure. Thus, the theory of evolution is based on human findings, where the Bible is inspired by God Himself.
Myself, I would say that it is much wiser to believe what the Maker says, rather than the made.

Another thing about evolution that disproves itself to me....

If we as humans evolved from apes, then your left with solving the problem of where the apes came from.

Brad

Wild Cherry

Once Again

No such thing as a Theory of Evolution..






Again, there is the Theory of Natural Selection....


And yes, we Homosapians are related to the other Hominid's like Ape & Chimps.
Lots of proof ......


Science means "the pursuit of knowledge and truth".
If we learn by science something that is true , does not that in it self mean we are learning about God ?

niznai

That actually is wrong. The theory (as you say) of evolution predicts that all forms of life constantly change to adapt to the change in their environment. Simple things such as the adaptation of various organs in your body to cope with the environmental conditions better (one case in point is the populations living at high altitudes in South America where their lungs are better at scavenging oxygen than ours after many generations living there) as well as more complicated things such as adaptations of various enzymes (basically proteins) used by your body to break down food, to trigger hormone release, etc, etc. This has been demonstrated to happen under our very eyes in populations with high turnover of generations (i.e. creatures with a very short life, so we can grow many generations in a short time span, for instance Drosophylla Melanogastera (a little fly)).

In fact, the evolution theory has found a very good explanation for how things are what we see today in the world of the living creatures. The advantage of the scientific method is that it is self correcting too, so in the long term, progress is guaranteed.

Sure, there is a long way to go before everything is explained neatly down to the very last detail, but as time goes by, I feel the present religions are starting to clutch at straws.

I think the point of religion as it was intended in the various stages of its evolution/revolution cycles was to provide a way of reconciling the self with the inherent hopelessness of an existence with no obvious ultimate sense. God after all is what people make out of their lone-ness (not loneliness). There are many religions which have kept the course, and many religions that have expanded into all sorts of algorithms to achieve this or that. The latter basically lost the plot in my view and threw God by the wayside along the way and are engaged in a struggle to adapt to the ever new advance of science/society. I think this is a very clumsy response to what is perceived as a threat to their authority. In fact, my opinion is that a religion should first of all not be interested in any authority but in finding the answers science does not intend and can not find (such as why does my sould which is immaterial hurt when I lose something/someone dear? Why do I like poetry? Or music? Why do I need these things to live when it is obvious there is no biological reason?). I would really be interested ina religion that could help me with that. Sure, science can tell you that certain biological reactions that culminate with the release of "happy hormones" (i.e. serotonin) in my brain can be triggerred by various environment excitants of which good music or poetry are just a couple, but that is just half the story.

I think there will always be a good place in society for religion but I am afraid we have lost that religion and someone (current religious leaders) needs to remember that. Current religions are too involved in things they should have nothing to do with and keep well away from (such as wars for instance, if you can't think of a better example). Perhaps we first need to let all current religions die out and start fresh.

But if you really are interested in religion there's a lot of good writings in the US you can read. Mircea Eliade (professor of Religion History some half a century ago at the University of Chicago if I remember correctly) has written some really good books about it. Or you can go straight to the source and try your patience with the early writings of christianism (sorry I am not cognisant enough to recommend good books of islam or judaism or whatever else). I am pretty sure they exist, it's just a matter of trying.

One thing I can guess though. The answer is not in a radio control forum. Or who knows?

WYLDTHING

iTrader: (159)

My response is in red...

WYLDTHING

iTrader: (159)

[QUOTE=niznai;6852288]That actually is wrong. The theory (as you say) of evolution predicts that all forms of life constantly change to adapt to the change in their environment. Simple things such as the adaptation of various organs in your body to cope with the environmental conditions better (one case in point is the populations living at high altitudes in South America where their lungs are better at scavenging oxygen than ours after many generations living there) as well as more complicated things such as adaptations of various enzymes (basically proteins) used by your body to break down food, to trigger hormone release, etc, etc. This has been demonstrated to happen under our very eyes in populations with high turnover of generations (i.e. creatures with a very short life, so we can grow many generations in a short time span, for instance Drosophylla Melanogastera (a little fly)).

In fact, the evolution theory has found a very good explanation for how things are what we see today in the world of the living creatures. The advantage of the scientific method is that it is self correcting too, (how can absolute truth be always changing?) so in the long term, progress is guaranteed.

[COLOR="red"]First off...thank you very much for your thoughts!

I guess we have a differing opinion about the definition of evolution. To me, evolution as it is taught today, means....one living species evolving/being created from another. And if that theory is true, then to me, that would have to mean that all apes and chimps would have to be extinct because they would have evolved into humans. To me, what you are describing would be the theory of adaptation, not evolution. And to that I agree. Yes, we as humans are always adapting to our surroundings, physically, emotionally, etc... but that isn't the same as humans evolving from apes. I have no doubt that our human bodies adapt to our circumstances and surroundings over generations. Proof of that is the different skin pigments%2

niznai

Perhaps because most of our DNA (over 99.9%) is identical?

But an even stronger line of evidence is mitochondrial DNA which is the same across species. If you forgot what mitochondria is, read here

http://micro.magnet.fsu.edu/cells/mi...ochondria.html

We don't really know what mitochondria is for as their role in the cell metabolism is not clear, but we know every cell on this planet has it . The truly mindblowing fact is they all have the same DNA as if they're all the same.

Yes, crocs, humans, elephants and zebras, pandas and coackroaches, indeed the lot have the absolute same mitochondrial DNA. 100% identical.
Mitochondria if you don't know is inherited from parents. That means all life on this planet has the same ultimate parent/source. It is almost like a fingerprint of life on this planet, so if you find another form of life elsewhere in this universe, check their mitochondrial DNA first. If it's like ours, then we're brothers, no matter what they look like.

There are missing links in the chain of evolution, indeed, but it's only patches like say sand dunes on the road from Cairo to Gizeh. Even if you don't see all of it, you see enough to know where it's going.

No worries, these thoughts are not exactly mine (or entirely) mine, others have contributed heavily, so they can be yours as well (I'm happy to share).

There are two stages in evolution. The first is the adaptation which happens by a fenotype change (the physical characteristics change without a change in DNA, say enlargement of lungs) induced by environment and the second is the genotype change (the DNA changes as it is passed down to the next generation) induced by natural selection (in cooperation with natural variability granted by spontaneous mutations in our genes. Spontaneous mutation is random and doesn't have a purpose. It happens due to a number of factors including radioactive radiation for instance and sometimes we know it as cancer).
What you talk about is the genotype change (by selection of successfully endowed individuals out of a population). This is how a new species appears (to use your words a species becomes another; though I think the expression is very unfortunate to say the least. I think someone did a really sloppy job of explaining the theory to you. Perhaps it is really worth it to brush up a bit). But changes are very tiny on a short timescale (say a human lifespan) and that's what I was talking about. The emrgence of a new species requires timescales that boggle the mind (it is easy to say millions of years, everybody is throwing around numbers like these all over the place, but to get a feel for what a few million of years means I recommend you visit the Grand Canyon and look at the river bed for a few days or until you get bored to check out how much things change, then try to imagine how long it would take the river to cut the canyon again at the same rate of change).

The fossil record however is brilliant and almost every month we find fossils predicted to exist by the theory. This is indeed a remarkable feat of evolutionary science. Imagine that. To be able to predict with such accuracy that a form of life existed before you can actually find the palpable proof. We can only wish meteorology was as good (yet we all look up the weather forecast and choose our attire accordingly every day, don't we?).

As to your argument that all is man made proof and theory built upon theory, I just want to say it's another misconception. Science is only telling it how it is, just as you yourself see the light of stars. Science only built more sensitive instruments to detect things our eyes woudln't otherwise see. That's pretty much all. We (mankind) didn't make up anything, and that's a good thing because I don't think we're a very talented lot as a species. Save for some very talented individuals whom we are very quick to ostracise, condemn and stigmatise and sistematically never listen to until we really get in trouble.

Carbon dating since you mention it is just an application of something that happens naturally. No human intervention there. We just invented soem machines capable of counting tiny little atoms, that's it. Nothing different from counting beans. Radiactive decay is natural and happens all the time since the universe began (actually a bit later for at the beginning there were no atoms).

One exception is political science. We sure as hell made that one up (but if you ask me that has nothing to do with science).

Wild Cherry

Many , many people misinterpret the term Evolution, My College professor would always have a fit if we even use the word ...


Personally feel just about all of the old testament needs to be edited from the Bible ..
Only the parts with Jesus need to remain..

BDW just because you had read the Bible means nothing ..

Most interpret it quite literally and miss the true meaning or intentions , think Jesus says so some where in bible even ...This is main reason God gave us Jesus...

You what proof ?
or do just wish to ignore it ?

First look at the latest work on mapping our genome . Our geans are 99% the same as Chimps & Gorilla's...Proves we are related...

2nd

There's that frozen Iceman they found , he's not a human . he's a Neathetal...
He 's real ....

3rd

Fossil's are real physical proof , lets look at Lucy ..
Her teeth has a Y valley between her molars just us humans...
All hominids related to Homosapians share this feature...
Its the best ways we can tell who is related to us BDW...


Recommend you do research and learn more about Anthropology then reading the Bible & misinterpreting it some more...

Even Albert Einstein believed in a creator...