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Old 04-14-2006, 03:54 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bosfan
how are you able to hold full throttle with out the car moving?
Simple, richen the engine enough......
And if the car does move, you clutch is set to lose....
I also break in my engines this way......
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Old 04-14-2006, 05:14 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificial-I
Figured I would post a video of the motor in "cyrul mode"
I'm glad the grass didn't catch fire!

That's one of those things you seen on America's Funniest home videos.
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Old 04-14-2006, 05:52 PM   #78
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Yeah I would have left it on the start box but it tends to get it oily. As well when I set it in the grass it kinda muffles the tone so I dont bother the neighbors as much. But I made sure the wheels werent turning at all before setting it in the grass. At the end of the video the car was running out of gas so you could hear it getting ready to take off so I let of throttle and shut it down to refuel.

Best way to break in motors.

Last edited by Artificial-I; 07-14-2006 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 04-15-2006, 12:18 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul
I see a lot of questions about the different procedures on here and here's a few things:

#1 - Not everyone thinks the same about break-in so it's important to do what you are comfortable with. I've used my method for years and it's always worked well for me. Not saying it's the exact perfect way and there is no other, but it's what I've had sucess and I think it's quite easy so I've stuck with it....

#2 - I don't use a temp gun ever!! So, I can give estimates on temps but I can't give exacts on what I break in at or what I run out on the track.

#3 - The main pourpose of the first tanks of running so rich is not so much to break in the engine but to flush loads of fuel through to move any residue oil, film and debris out of the engine so when you do break in the engine it has a 100% clean internals to work with. I don't like running at an idle with a brand new engine as I want that high fuel capacity flushing out the insides so it's ready to start lapping in the piston and sleeve. Once you've gone through the steps and are starting to lean the engine out is really when the "break-in" part of the procedure starts to happen.
I have used your method exactly as stated on your site. Engine has been running great for about a year now.
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Old 04-15-2006, 07:24 PM   #80
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I was not as lucky... My TZ only lasted a galon and 3/4 of the second one. Im still trying to come up with reasons of why my conrod broke. The break-in I believe was one of them, probably rushed it in. I did everything on the instructions for break-in but here are some of the problems I encountered:

-Engine was too cold while running the Cyrul Method. With a Raytech Temp gun, it measured about 140-150F.
-When trying to re-fuel the car since the method says "Run the engine full throttle for 3 tanks and shut the engine down.". When trying to refuel while at full throttle the engine leaned itself and the tires began to move. So, each time I had to refuel I let the throttle close, refuel, then full throttle again. 90% of the time I refueled the engine flamed out. I tried to restart it again quickly and if I couldn't I let it cool down for 15 minutes.



Heres some questions I have...

-Should I try to refuel the tank even if the engine leans out when I open the tank?
-Should I close the carb, refuel, then full throttle again?
-What do I do if it flames out?
-Should I change the conrod after the break-in?
-Should I wrap aluminum foil or Serpent Cleaning Gum around the head of the engine to reach an adequate temperature?
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Old 04-15-2006, 07:44 PM   #81
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I let the engine come to an idle while refueling.... I use the bump up feature on my M8 while refueling. The bottom end should allow it to idle just fine. You will have to feather the throttle back up to WOT after refueling.

If the engine flames out, just lean it a half turn and restart it. Open the needle back up after it gets running.

Some people change the con-rod, but personally I just inspect it on a periodic basis and keep running it for up to 1.5- 2 gallons.

Don't worry too much about the temp while running it WOT. WOT is just to flush crap out of the engine. I do try to keep my engine at least 140F when running WOT. Just get it so the wheels barely turn on a full tank- as the tank empties it will lean out and the wheels will spin a little faster. If you have a rear diff, just grab a wheel to bring the temps up.
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Old 04-15-2006, 07:47 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdelong
I let the engine come to an idle while refueling.... I use the bump up feature on my M8 while refueling. The bottom end should allow it to idle just fine. You will have to feather the throttle back up to WOT after refueling.

If the engine flames out, just lean it a half turn and restart it. Open the needle back up after it gets running.

Some people change the con-rod, but personally I just inspect it on a periodic basis and keep running it for up to 1.5- 2 gallons.

Don't worry too much about the temp while running it WOT. WOT is just to flush crap out of the engine. I do try to keep my engine at least 140F when running WOT. Just get it so the wheels barely turn on a full tank- as the tank empties it will lean out and the wheels will spin a little faster. If you have a rear diff, just grab a wheel to bring the temps up.
Thanks, I now remember that I tried to quickly go back to WOT after refueling.
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Old 04-25-2006, 09:06 AM   #83
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Would this method be used for all nitro engines, both on and off-road?
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Old 04-25-2006, 09:49 AM   #84
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Would or Could?

But yes this works for most all motors. Some motors have different piston and sleeves so you will want to take precaution and probably do it the manufacturer suggest route.

Kinda like the Team Orion Wasp Rev coming out. I have a feeling that would be a motor you would want to stick with the manu method. But im sure people will test it out and once word comes around that its ok then there you go.
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Old 04-25-2006, 05:00 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificial-I
Would or Could?

But yes this works for most all motors. Some motors have different piston and sleeves so you will want to take precaution and probably do it the manufacturer suggest route.

Kinda like the Team Orion Wasp Rev coming out. I have a feeling that would be a motor you would want to stick with the manu method. But im sure people will test it out and once word comes around that its ok then there you go.
I wish the manufacturers were clearer on how to break in the engine. Here is an exerpt OS .12 TZ manual:

Excessively rich running and prolonged low speed running mean nothing. Prolonged low speed running and low temperature running may result in the oil in the fuel being gelled and piston/liner being agglutinated.

Try to make time to run the car at full throttle. Lengthen full throttle running time gradually. When the car can run full throttle with rich mixture at the straight, close the needle-valve a little. Repeat this procedure until the car runs at the maximum speed at the latter straight course.

The following procedure is suitable for these engines when the O.S. T-1040 tuned silencer and a fuel containing up to 30% nitromethane are used.

When the engine starts, first allow it to operate in short runs at the very rich starting settings, with the glowplug battery still connected and the driving wheels clear of the ground. The rich mixture will, under these conditions, provide adequate lubrication and cooling, indicated by profuse smoke from the exhaust.

Attention: It is vitally important to set the throttle at the correct position before starting the engine. If the engine is allowed to run with the throttle too far open under ''no load'' conditions (i.e. with the driving wheels not in contact with the ground) it will rapidly over-heat and may be
seriously damaged.

Next, disconnect the glowplug battery and try running the car on the track. If the engine stalls, open the throttle fractionally, but try to keep the engine running as rich as possible: if it stops because of being excessively overrich, close the Needle-Valve 15° and try again.


If you've never broken in an engine before, this is incredibly vague. What length of time is prolonged? Agglutinated is just too hilarious. Short runs with the wheels off the ground? Does this mean to idle the car? And what exactly are short runs? And have you ever been able to start a car with the throttle full open? Not me. In fact it's the first thing I spot check if the car won't start. And yeah, the guy at my LHS told me to buy the RDLogics Pipe and 20% fuel. What's up with this T-1040 pipe and 30% fuel? Try to make time to run the car at full throttle? Am I so busy that I need to schedule an appointment? What duration of time would be considered gradually? If you put the engine on the ground and it stalls, don't you have to restart it again? And why in the world would you open the throttle more? Doesn't the stall mean that your engine is loading up because it's too rich? Yeah, let's keep on opening that puppy until it doesn't stall. Oh and then if you've turned it too far (How do you determine that? When the screw pops out?), start turning it 15 degrees at a time until it doesn't stall. Great. Just great.

You can probably get good advice from someone that has the same engine, that has successfully broken in more than a few engines, but if you get advice from someone that has never run your engine before or it's his first engine, it's a toss up. One experienced racer running a JP motor told me to butt the front of the car up against a wall and let it idle for 10 tanks. Another guy said to just start running it on the track, but drive slowly. And another guy told me to just follow the instruction manual that came with the car.
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Old 06-26-2006, 11:54 PM   #86
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Does this breakin process require the car on the road or off the ground? Thanks
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Old 06-27-2006, 01:20 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raptor 700
Does this breakin process require the car on the road or off the ground? Thanks
Look above near the top of this page. You will see that Josh himself answered this question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul
Bundy - The car is on the box until the article says to hit the track. As far as the blipping - it's just until the engine has some temp in it.
rmd, those instructions look like a bad translation from japanese. This is after OS tried to explain Josh's method in japanese.

I have pasted Josh's original instructions from his site here for all to see. Hope he doesn't mind.

Engine Break-In 101
In the area of engine break-in, there are several different procedures that have been used over the years. Different manufactures, top drivers, and hobby store experts all vary in their opinion as to which is best. Over the past 10+ years of nitro racing I have found this procedure to give me good results in both areas of on-track performance as well as reliability.

Install the new engine into your chassis complete with clutch and ready to go as if you were going to race. Take a screwdriver, glow igniter, starter box, and a full bottle of fuel to a remote area where you won't annoy anyone with a running engine. Start your engine and allow it to warm up with several short ½ throttle “blips”. Once your engine has some temperature in it you can begin the break-in process. Start by opening the top end needle 1 full turn. Open the carburetor to full throttle and hold it there. Open the top end needle until the engine flames out. From here, close the top end needle ¼ turn and restart the engine again running it at full throttle. Run the engine full throttle for 3 tanks and shut the engine down.

Allow the engine to cool for 15-30 minutes. Once the engine has cooled down, run through the same process again for two additional tanks. On the third tank close the top end needle by ¼ of a turn. Instead of holding the engine at full throttle, start using the throttle by doing 2-3 second bursts of full throttle. Once you have done this for ½ of the tank close the top end needle another ¼ of a turn and continue throttling the engine. Continue closing the top end needle ¼ turn per every ½ tank of fuel. Do this until you have run a grand total of 8 tanks through your engine and then shut the engine down.

Allow the engine to cool for 15-30 minutes and then you are ready to hit the race track. Drive two tanks rich around the track slowly closing the top end needle sneaking up on that perfect mixture. At the end of the second tank your engine should be tuned to race speed. This will give you a total of 10 tanks of fuel through your engine before you really start to lean the mixture for ultimate power.

The reasoning behind this break-in procedure is that there is always a large volume of fuel flowing through the engine. Large volume of fuel means plenty of oil and lubrication for the break in process. This also helps flush out any burrs or small pieces of material that may have been left over from the manufacturing of the engine. Also, the engine has a load placed on it by trying to cycle all of the fuel through it – somewhat similar to the load that you will put on it out on the track when you try to power your car around the track. Last, the engine is broke in with rpm – if you break the engine in at idle then you will not be seating the piston, sleeve, and connecting rod at anywhere near the rpm that it will have to be ready for out on the race track.

This is the procedure that I have used with good success over the years of nitro racing. When I've hurried the break-in process I have had some engines last 30 minutes to 4 hours of racing. When I've taken my time and run through this process I've run engines as long as 16 hours of racing!! Yep, same piston and sleeve!!!! Be patient and have fun!!

Good Luck!!
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Old 06-28-2006, 10:20 AM   #88
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Hi Josh! Tried your Break in today, our temp was only 120 Deg F on the first 3 tanks on full throttle, is this normal or should our temp be at 200 Def F?
Thanks!
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Old 06-28-2006, 06:44 PM   #89
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I used this method to break in my mach 427.
The first 3-4 tanks are to flush as much fuel through the engine as possible.
You will get the temps up as you go through more and more tanks.

At wot, the engine was not turning quick enough for the clutch shoes to engage so I left it on the ground with no problems.

At 1 3/4 gallons the engine is just starting to really come alive.

Take your time and follow the steps and you will be rewarded.

This is the easiest time I have ever had breaking in an engine. Thanks Josh for the great tips and procedure.
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Old 07-11-2006, 03:08 PM   #90
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I have broke in 4 motors now using the Josh method and it works great! I have noticed the rod still seem fine after breaking in the engine.I do use a hairdryer to heat it before startup and as i'm running at wide open. I have also started to put the igniter back on while refueling at an idle. The motors i have broke in this way are the fastest i've had yet.
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