Waz up Kevin
 

You got pm.

Were all recovering from the nats. Motivation level is on the rise though.

i figured. just thought i'd ask as i am excited too. missed 2 races because i have no motor.

motors should be in this week and after the retrofits we should have a few. will let you know after the rd race this weekend in cali.

the plus part is we are now working with two engine manufacturers which is a good thing. we are also investigating taking on a custom version of the team magic g4 built especially for RD. :) after looking at all the good cars out there this one stands out as a great performer with a few changes and they appear to be willing to work with us. :)

Usefull note from the nats:
I'll try to make this simple without getting into deep theory, but it appears that in more than a few cases people are suffering detonation from to short of a tuned pipe header. It happened to us at the nats when the wether rose above 70 degrees. after reviewing numerous races in the last year and discussing engine performance problems with all engines we have used including novarossi we discovered that in many cases an engine ran great late in the day and very poor in the middle of the day. at the nats we traced it to to short of a header causing blowback into the crankcase. this caused the engine ( both novas and rd's)to detonate and be needle sensitive. so heres how you detect it.

If your running a turbo II pipe and the head clerance is .021 thousanths on 40 % fuel and all the sudden it starts to lay over about 5 minutes in and you find the needles look excessively rich on their adjustment this is what is happening. The tuned pipe reversion wave is so strong that it is causing the fuel air mixture to be blown back down into the crankcase and no amount of richening will fix it. This is an indicator that the pipe is to short and we suggest you use the long 12 header and the long 21 header if the temp is above 75 degrees or the air density is high. This has bitten us many times the last year and during a discussion with the team we surmised that this is what was happening. Infact on a novarossi pipe it became really severe. so we are making adjustments to the RD pipe line to address this issue with the long header being standard and the short being the option. (all of us are pushing the engines right to the edge)
Dennis
RD Logics.

When you refer to a short pipe, what overall pipe length (measurred according to RB website) are you referring to?

Is it also a problem when you run 30% or lower nitro?

pipe dreams
 

hey dennis ' so how many millimeters are we talling to elminate
this problem? also your website is being held hostage ,waz-up with that?:) :) :) power to the people :cool:

RD Ligics engines
 

Hi Dennis.
Your explanation is realy good info for some processes I have seen. Wasn't be better idea to try 20% there in Ohio in that conditions? Unfortunately my boss didn't give me Sunday off to fly to Ohio.
Are you comming to RD logics? I will be there on Saturday only, my boss again didn't give me Sunday off to be at RD logics, but he gave me day off for our reginonals.

Hey Dennis
just wanna know if the carb is done nor not :D :D
can get one of those motor :nod: :nod:
can i put that on any motor too

thanks a lot
nelly

the custom g4 sounds interesting, do you have any details

The reason why Atushi had less power on Sunday than he did on Saturday is because a big head was used instead of a small head. Since it was a one hour race consistency was the main concern, not power. This change led to a cooler temperature. Insted of finishing at 240 he finished at 190. Hara's car also finished with very thin tires(53mm). It was fast in the in-field but in the straight away it did not have enough speed.

Richey, congratulations on you motors, They did very well at the Nationals. I am sure that you will go far with them.

Is there a part number? I have been having this same problem, figured it was my new engine and still breaking in.

maxy well done, I am very happy for you. (really I am, I know what a big deal it is for an engine modifier) big feather in the cap. :) Like winning the superbowl.
i've been chasing it a long time, it will come.

we had a short pipe issue with my timing configuration that jumped up and bit me starting friday. I did not discover it untill saturday night and by then it was to late. Tis racing and has been typical for us at the nats. I learned something over again that made it more valuable than where we placed. albeit my guys were really frusturated. good for RD Logics, tough for us. but thats why I'm there. Poor tire choice hurt us too. nitro shoes or ellegis man got to have em. Thats twice I fell into that trap with other tires.

To those who are concerned. The signature engines should be at rd in 22 days. They will be based on a different engine base than the techwell but are the real deal. Been alot of juggling going on. They are truly customs and there will be no more signatures (the signature will be a short rod motor) for a while, while we work on a second generation engine for next year. we will launch a great motor that is custom made to our specs for us in the next month.(the engine the signature is based on)that is within 95% performance of the signature. extensive testing has gone on and our versions really run exceptional for the dollar value. I'm a really fussy when it comes to my blessing and putting my name on it.

blue dragon 60215

yes we will be bringing in the g4. and full k factory upgrades. we will be working on a custom package with engine and pipe to at an exceptional value very soon. RD is getting serious

parts for that car and upgrades will never be a problem again

Great news Dennis, but how do we know who are the lucky guys that made the resrve list and will be getting one???

AFM

i guess i'm confused. when are the engines (not the signature line) going to be available? sounds like 2 more months? and then there is going to be a second generation motor next year?

Motorman- Maybe if you and your crew dont pump up these motors so much there would not be so much expectation. Just test quietly without the fan fare. That way a problem with your motors does not look like such a big problem. I've been reading your thread and it seems you have said that the motors should have been here already.


I think if you look at the lap times of Haras car they do not show a lack in power as Motorman said. His lap were all just as fast as Blackstock and Swuager even if they seemed to look faster. Hara is very smooth and accurate and never upsets the car by over powering the tires like everyone else.

Check out the times at the http://www.jlapracemanager.com/cgi-b...ATE=09_03_2004

actually I have not seen any of my crew making any posts in regards to the engine in a long time. However I do owe an explanation and or a timeline to customers who have inquired about the engine as numerous issues similar to the ones I believe killed the odonnell motor we have been required to deal with. If there is hype thats not what I'm looking for. If I share in my enthusiasm and it is construed as hype your taking it the wrong way. If you consider a tuned pipe being to short a big problem.

non sigs will be available at the same time.

If you want the entire lowdown on what is what you guys tell me and I'll get into all the nitty gritty. All our testing is done and finished. Production is another issue.

Rangulo I was there were you? hara's driving made up for a lack of power. He was not lacking much maybe 5% but you could definatly see it on the track. Now maxy has given an explanation for that and as cool as the engine was I can see why it lacked top end. Since he is the engine builder he should know. Bottom line was he was short on overall power. I marshalled the race at the end of the back straight and Swauger would gain 5 car lengths on him there and Hara would make up 4 in the infield.

I understand your point, but I see it a bit differently.
Anyone undertaking the design and production of a brand new engine is bound to encounter hurdles. Some of these hurdles will, and have, pushed back the scheduled release time.

Personally, I appreciate the refreshing honesty of being kept informed of the progress status. This is a whole lot better than being given some "feeble excuse" by a faceless marketing person.

Just my $0.02 worth.

or sold somthin thats still not right!!

Exactly. :nod:

I hope that your motors do all the things that have been said on this thread. The market does need a lower costing entry level motor to offset the nova line. It seemed to me that before the nats the people on this thread were so hyped up about the RD line and it all Fizzed away after the nats. Because of all the hype I went to the Nats expecting to see this awesome little candy colored motors who could run for like 8 minutes on a tank.. Maybe the run time is a little overdone but some crazy number like that was said to be the run time on one tank.


I did go to the nats. I sat close to one of your drivers who yanked the RD motor from his car becuase it would not run correctly. He than put in a Mugen X12 in his car!!! You remember that?

Any one have a link from the RD Logics race in CA. a few weeks ago

Tis a fact as I told them all to go with a known quantity as the short header issue had not been fully revealed to me at that time and there comes a point when you yhave to tell your guys do what you have to to try to make the show and salvage the week. You act like thats some kind of secret or something. I solved the header length issue saturday night and even though I had a piss poor main I did conclude that the engine issue was solved and also the week after determined that it has been an issue not only plauging us at different races but others also using big name engines.

Driver your talking about would be Eli Ezrow. Eli had zero time prior to nats to run the engine and had to run a proto one hand machined engine thats two years old because we had a catastrophic crank failure in one of the 11MM proto twos. I knew after one round that that engine was not going to be a serious player. This is the reaon we wer also testing the proto threes with the 12 mm cranks which is production intent. 0 crank failures to date. The bottom line is I only had 7 motors to work with at the time and we wanted to fill the field with as many as possible to get a good gauge. I think we accompolished what we set out to do regardless of where the guys finished.

As for 8 minutes it was achieved and several people whitnessed it. however it was cool weather on a lower bite track. would I expect that, not really however in many cases even at the nats depending on the car many of the drivers came in with 20 cc or better left in the tank.

I was hyped and still am despite many setbacks. If I could just get the manufacturer to produce it would be all good. As of this moment we are discussing moving the entire version of this engine to another manufacturer we know can produce the quality and numbers we want. (READ HERE THE DEVELOPMENT IS COMPLETLY DONE) This will set this version of engine back slightly.(one more time.:flaming: Read add more gray hair) On another note I have been testing another manufacturers engine we intend to distribute with our own parts inside. The performance has been good with the changes we have made and those are on the way. When you see them you will know them but they are different specs inside and some of the parts will be proprietary to us.

No excuses here just the facts

Here you go, results from each day:

http://www.revrace.com/RaceResultsDi...04.txt&ID=1615

http://www.revrace.com/RaceResultsDi...04.txt&ID=1616

http://www.revrace.com/RaceResultsDi...04.txt&ID=1629

thanks

Mailing Address
 

Dennis YGPM

Leo good to hear the R3 "s run good.

Really good :nod:

Dennis, are the signature motors available yet?

Also, I had my LHS contact RD about the Richey engines and he was advised that they are available and shipping in limited quantities. Is this correct? I thought from your posts above that there was a supply/manufacturing issue.

Any light you could shed on the subject would be most helpful.

so the motors have been pushed back again? is that the bottom line?

Ok
I'm going to explain what is going on in the clearest way I can so that everyone understands what is going on while protecting the integrity of the engines.

There are two engines that we intend to sell to the public.

The first engine is the one we have been working on for two long years

It was to be built a firm in taiwan. it is a long rod 12 engine
specs. It is a brand new ground up engine

13.98 MM bore
14.06 MM Stroke
Long connecting Rod
3 port with RTU gen6 style porting and timing with full cnc blending
12 MM 4340 billet steel crank RTU gen6 fully blended and radiused on a cnc. RTUgen6 timing
fully blended turbo cut on a cnc
conventional turbo and standard head buttons
2 needle carburetor similar to an os carb. to be scrapped in favor of a three needle design

The development of this engine is done as far as I am concerned and anyone who has seen one or driven on will tell you they really cook. However during the development we have had issues and still do getting the manufacturer to produce it. they just cant seem to get it together. So a couple weeks ago a decision was made to transfer the production to another firm. We did all the development on the engine so as far as we are concerned we own it. This obviously will take a few months as the new firm will have to redraw all the parts for us and make new dies set up machines etc. At this time we are confident that the new firm will step up and we also are sure we will recieve an even higher quality product in the end. This engine has yet to be NAMED.

The other engine
13.80 MM bore
14.04 MM Stroke
short rod
stepped steel crank
our timing and fit specs
3 needle carb

In not wanting to put all the eggs in one basket we have been working with another manufacturer in taiwan to launch a short rod 12 engine. we had some initial performance issues during summer testing but those are solved and testing of the short rod motor is showing to be good enough that our version (we asked for a number of changes internally) is on order and some are comming in as we speak. They have made the changes I asked for and these will be sold as Richey Racing Engines also with the RD logics logo on them. These will be based on an STS block and crank but will be different enough we will market them as new engines. This is similar to an serpent picco situation. thats the best way to describe it. These are the R3 and R5 engines. you should see these pop up on the RD site in a week or so.

Hopefully this sheds some light on the subject for you

i certainly wasn't trying to be snippy. i have just been trying to wade through the mire of information (and misinformaiton) of the past few months. looking forward to the motors release as myself and at least 2 others in my local club are getting them as soon as the "ground up" engines are available.

No problem
I've been as confused as you are latley just trying to keep up with all our new stuff. The short rod engines will be the ones the first signatures are based on. I am confident of their performance also or I would not be building signature versions of them. We have turned almost the same numbers with both of them with the long rod having a slight edge because of increased torque. Both motor variants haul. Their just different.

sounds great. are you sourcing the bearings from sts also? i have had bad luck with their bearings, in fact that is why i am in the market for a new engine...

what bearing issues are you having?? They use Japanese IJK's which are good bearings

i had a front bearing go out and getting a hold of project zen is like pulling teeth.. i'd just get the dang replacement from boca, but it's twice as much + shipping..

Yes,we bought the bearings from Japan.We believe Japanese bearings are the best in the world. That bearings are expensive C3 spec. STS don't produce any bearing actuality.

Tally the bearing is standard 607zz with a rubber seal
you can use any bearing of that style. all pre NS model novas, and rb's use that bearing it is very common. Os uses it to. I'll get you a number so you can get one from tower.

I see alot of talk about bearing leakage these days. so let me dispell a myth. They all leak slightly no matter what your running these days. The long intake timing and short pipes everyone has gone to to get smoking performance causes this. the blowdown and subsequent pressure rise in the crankcase causes a small amount of fuel to be pushed out the front. And if you run the engine to rich it will really leak. The other issue is that at the rpm the engines run at the seal can go away really fast. I used to keep replacement seals in my box and changed them as a maintenance Item on my novas. Thats just the way it was.