*grabs beer and chips and puts this topic on the beamer*

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I agree I was just posting the new pipe and pointing out how reds describes there manifolds. On another note I'm in the middle of building a new facility so there should be alot of nova's snapping conrods!! Lol

I would agree to that when it comes to aluminium it can be better to have the flex joint that springs and rubber gasket creates, well they even use it for steel exhaust on full scale cars to avoid fatigue cracks.

The 2113 pipe should essentially be a 2069, I find them responsive at the bottom end with a good top end, that might be what they mean. It's always a problem when you try to describe something like this, so that all people no matter their knowledge will understand, from one sentence.

so we shall see when the s version comes out we should see even more low end response...

Doubt there will be much difference in response, it will move the power curve up in the rpm range. Like the description says regarding the Offroad pipe on the same paper.

Well there is a reason they make it shorter so u will feel better bottom end. Just like we feel the difference now whem we change manifolds..

Time for another beer....

Make sure its light beer u migjt have to buy a 24 pack ....

You can divide the power band in to 4 different sections, one where the clutch engages, one where peak torque occur, one where peak hp occur and one above that.
My findings with that pipe (in Offroad though) is that it's responsive in the first section, average in the second, and strong at the last two.
I don't have any data on how much Onroad is using the rpm close to the first section, so I can't help you with that.
But otherwise it's just like the note you posted says about the 2104 pipe for offroad, longer for more power lower in the rpm range, and shorter for the opposite.
There are tons of papers, books etc written about this that might help you understand this in more detail, there are also a lot software's you can use to see exactly what happens and there is also dyno tests done to compare.
Let me know if you need help to find some basic material regarding two strokes. :)

I didnt realize u were taking offroad so your way off. Far as the books software data, I can help u better come to my track which I been testing cars for 15 years at the same place and since I am the fastest there and most consistent my data is accurate and it's a track designed for mostly bottom end, and I will show you pipe after pipe and manifold after manifold the results and it will prove how a shorter manifold and a bottom end track will result in faster lap times and yes using a radar gun to show top speed difference. Because at the end of the day all the books in the world dont matter when what we are ultimately trying to achieve is faster Lap times. Thanks for your inquirie into my knowledge. Think u had too many beers !! Lol

There is no difference between Onroad and Offroad in that way, they both react the same way, it's easy to understand if you understand the basics of engines and some mathematics. When it comes to the pipe in question I only have experience from Offroad, I have ran Onroad as well though.
As you can play more with gear ratios in Onroad the ideal situation might be different, as power is power, utilizing the power differently might very well behave like you describe. Even in Offroad a longer manifold might produce better lap times and higher top speed, it's basic physics, you need to accelerate to build speed and there is a lot of different things needed for that. As long as you don't "wander off" to far from the optimum setup, the engine will follow the physics involved very predictably, it's completely impossible for it not to do that. How you interpret the results and information to come to conclusions is down logic thoughts.
There was a time when the Wright Brothers was the most successful people on this planet when it came to flying, but that didn't mean they understod much of it anyhow...
And no, no beers here, only coffee! ;)

I’m drinking some coffee and reading with interest and a few giggles to boot. :)

This is one of those things where you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink. Physics is physics.

If u followed what I said I mentioned about the radar gun so it would show the top speed is the same. Also of course I tested same gearing same eberything but it's hard for certain people to understand that. I know u think u have all this knowledge but I will make it easy for you short distance something has to travel and return alwys means faster now u can keep covering it up with fancy mathematical talk but its very simple and any time u want to learn the only real way and it's at the track let me know good day

If you don't mind, I believe I will join you all now... :lol: My knowledge regarding magic only extend so far, I'm in over my head here. :p

Everybody is. ;)