Late 2010 best buy on Engines
12-22-2010, 12:25 PM
#46
I am not sure I agree with those numbers Ron. Specifically because of fuel prices quoted. In my experience most people are racing their engines after the first 1/2 gallon regardless of brand. The thing about the Taiwan made motors is just that you need to run them a little fatter a little longer but not enough to really stop you from racing.
I think there is a reason that GO/Alpha and Werks seem to get most of the attention on this forum.
1. They are great motors at a great price point.
2. There perspective US distributors are active on here and provide great customer service.
We can all talk till the end of time about which motor is best and which motor is faster or whatever your pleasure but in the end you cant go wrong either way. I choose to run GO but whatever you choose you will be getting a great motor at an outstanding value that the 2 other major companys will have to take into account pretty soon or start to lose even more of their market share.
On a side note from what I have seen the new GO engines will be a new twist to the game.
I think there is a reason that GO/Alpha and Werks seem to get most of the attention on this forum.
1. They are great motors at a great price point.
2. There perspective US distributors are active on here and provide great customer service.
We can all talk till the end of time about which motor is best and which motor is faster or whatever your pleasure but in the end you cant go wrong either way. I choose to run GO but whatever you choose you will be getting a great motor at an outstanding value that the 2 other major companys will have to take into account pretty soon or start to lose even more of their market share.
On a side note from what I have seen the new GO engines will be a new twist to the game.
12-22-2010, 12:25 PM
#47
Don't take anything that I'm saying as attacking you, were all good from that perspective. But it you look at our thread you will also see people saying that they have 8 gallons on their B5 and it's still going strong so I would take all of that as a grain of salt. The reality of the matter is that most people will be able to get 6 to maybe 9 gallons out of most brands of engines P/S if they know what they are doing and know how to tune. Anything over this is in my opinion for the most part an anomaly or just good luck lol! I also understand the example that you are using on re-build costs but lets look at it from another stand point assuming an equal 8 gallon life out of both companies p/s and a rebuild:
Werks
Break in 1/2 gallon of gas at $28 a gallon = $14
P/S Set = $110
Break in of 2nd P/S using 1/2 gal = $14
Bearings, no need to replace
Rod ' $40
Total Costs = $178
The Brand that you referenced
Break in 2 gallon of gas at $28 a gallon= $56
P/S/R Set= $85
Front Bearing= $7.99
Rear Bearing= $15.99
Break in of 2nd P/S using 2 gallons of gas= $56
Total Cost = $220.98
So to run 2x P/S/R though brand B actually ends up costing 25% more than with ours!
I will also add that if we again assume an 8 gallon life out of both brands p/s with ours you are actually getting 7 1/2 gallons of use at optimal performance. The other brand takes 2 gallons to break in so you are only getting 6 gallons of use at optimal performance. Consider that over the life of 2 p/s sets and you are getting an additional 3 gallons of racing use out of our engine which is another 1/2 of brand B's p/s set so in essence it's like comparing 2 rebuilds of our engine to 2 1/2 rebuilds of the other brands (so 25% more life) and then the numbers look like this:
Werks
Total costs same as above, $178
Other Brand
Total costs above $220.98 + 25% = $276.22
This is the actual costs that you are looking at to get 15 gallons or racing use out of both brands of engines! And that cost is actually 55% more with brand B than what you spend on ours using the last example which represents the true racing use that you get out of the engines. This is just math and nothing that I can twist, alter, lie about or anything else, it's just the hard numbers!
So where is the savings at???? It's actually a little surprising when you actually look at the numbers isn't it!
Werks
Break in 1/2 gallon of gas at $28 a gallon = $14
P/S Set = $110
Break in of 2nd P/S using 1/2 gal = $14
Bearings, no need to replace
Rod ' $40
Total Costs = $178
The Brand that you referenced
Break in 2 gallon of gas at $28 a gallon= $56
P/S/R Set= $85
Front Bearing= $7.99
Rear Bearing= $15.99
Break in of 2nd P/S using 2 gallons of gas= $56
Total Cost = $220.98
So to run 2x P/S/R though brand B actually ends up costing 25% more than with ours!
I will also add that if we again assume an 8 gallon life out of both brands p/s with ours you are actually getting 7 1/2 gallons of use at optimal performance. The other brand takes 2 gallons to break in so you are only getting 6 gallons of use at optimal performance. Consider that over the life of 2 p/s sets and you are getting an additional 3 gallons of racing use out of our engine which is another 1/2 of brand B's p/s set so in essence it's like comparing 2 rebuilds of our engine to 2 1/2 rebuilds of the other brands (so 25% more life) and then the numbers look like this:
Werks
Total costs same as above, $178
Other Brand
Total costs above $220.98 + 25% = $276.22
This is the actual costs that you are looking at to get 15 gallons or racing use out of both brands of engines! And that cost is actually 55% more with brand B than what you spend on ours using the last example which represents the true racing use that you get out of the engines. This is just math and nothing that I can twist, alter, lie about or anything else, it's just the hard numbers!
So where is the savings at???? It's actually a little surprising when you actually look at the numbers isn't it!
I don't care how tight a Go clone is, it isn't going to take two gallons of fuel for break in. Maybe the old ones, but not the current crop. And why are you assuming new bearings? Are the Werks bearings really going to last through two P/R/S sets? Maybe yes and maybe no. Not many people would replace a P/R/S without also doing the bearings in any engine. So it's really a wash.
12-22-2010, 12:35 PM
#48
Don't take anything that I'm saying as attacking you, were all good from that perspective. But it you look at our thread you will also see people saying that they have 8 gallons on their B5 and it's still going strong so I would take all of that as a grain of salt. The reality of the matter is that most people will be able to get 6 to maybe 9 gallons out of most brands of engines P/S if they know what they are doing and know how to tune. Anything over this is in my opinion for the most part an anomaly or just good luck lol! I also understand the example that you are using on re-build costs but lets look at it from another stand point assuming an equal 8 gallon life out of both companies p/s and a rebuild:
Werks
Break in 1/2 gallon of gas at $28 a gallon = $14
P/S Set = $110
Break in of 2nd P/S using 1/2 gal = $14
Bearings, no need to replace
Rod ' $40
Total Costs = $178
The Brand that you referenced
Break in 2 gallon of gas at $28 a gallon= $56
P/S/R Set= $85
Front Bearing= $7.99
Rear Bearing= $15.99
Break in of 2nd P/S using 2 gallons of gas= $56
Total Cost = $220.98
So to run 2x P/S/R though brand B actually ends up costing 25% more than with ours!
I will also add that if we again assume an 8 gallon life out of both brands p/s with ours you are actually getting 7 1/2 gallons of use at optimal performance. The other brand takes 2 gallons to break in so you are only getting 6 gallons of use at optimal performance. Consider that over the life of 2 p/s sets and you are getting an additional 3 gallons of racing use out of our engine which is another 1/2 of brand B's p/s set so in essence it's like comparing 2 rebuilds of our engine to 2 1/2 rebuilds of the other brands (so 25% more life) and then the numbers look like this:
Werks
Total costs same as above, $178
Other Brand
Total costs above $220.98 + 25% = $276.22
This is the actual costs that you are looking at to get 15 gallons or racing use out of both brands of engines! And that cost is actually 55% more with brand B than what you spend on ours using the last example which represents the true racing use that you get out of the engines. This is just math and nothing that I can twist, alter, lie about or anything else, it's just the hard numbers!
So where is the savings at???? It's actually a little surprising when you actually look at the numbers isn't it!
Werks
Break in 1/2 gallon of gas at $28 a gallon = $14
P/S Set = $110
Break in of 2nd P/S using 1/2 gal = $14
Bearings, no need to replace
Rod ' $40
Total Costs = $178
The Brand that you referenced
Break in 2 gallon of gas at $28 a gallon= $56
P/S/R Set= $85
Front Bearing= $7.99
Rear Bearing= $15.99
Break in of 2nd P/S using 2 gallons of gas= $56
Total Cost = $220.98
So to run 2x P/S/R though brand B actually ends up costing 25% more than with ours!
I will also add that if we again assume an 8 gallon life out of both brands p/s with ours you are actually getting 7 1/2 gallons of use at optimal performance. The other brand takes 2 gallons to break in so you are only getting 6 gallons of use at optimal performance. Consider that over the life of 2 p/s sets and you are getting an additional 3 gallons of racing use out of our engine which is another 1/2 of brand B's p/s set so in essence it's like comparing 2 rebuilds of our engine to 2 1/2 rebuilds of the other brands (so 25% more life) and then the numbers look like this:
Werks
Total costs same as above, $178
Other Brand
Total costs above $220.98 + 25% = $276.22
This is the actual costs that you are looking at to get 15 gallons or racing use out of both brands of engines! And that cost is actually 55% more with brand B than what you spend on ours using the last example which represents the true racing use that you get out of the engines. This is just math and nothing that I can twist, alter, lie about or anything else, it's just the hard numbers!
So where is the savings at???? It's actually a little surprising when you actually look at the numbers isn't it!
....i have been doing the same break in as in the break in bible....HEAT CYCLE with only 35 mins of run time and she is ready to GO!....Break in 2 qts of gas at $28 a gallon= $14
P/S/R Set= $75
Front Bearing= $7.99
Rear Bearing= $15.99
Break in of 2nd P/S using 2qts of gas= $14
Total Cost = $126.98
this is how much it cost our customers!
12-22-2010, 12:39 PM
#49
I think its funny how one manufacture and talk about about anothers parts quality. ....But turn the tables , and they get all defensive and say everyone else just don't know what they are talking about cause they "don't own one" and they are just bashing lol
12-22-2010, 12:51 PM
#50
I think its time for us all the put on our Asbestos underwear, its getting a little warm in here ! ! LOL J/K
Obviously there are many people who are very happy with the performance of their chosen engine brand regardless of any other factor....I do have my personal preferences, and I think I have valid and actual reasoning behind my decisions...But in the end I respect everyone's choice of engine, even if it isn't what I would recommend..... I will help anyone who needs help wether they run a GO or a Werk's..I will also modify each engine to the best of my ability regardless of brand.......I am not a fan boy of any particular brand, I one f the few here who works with all the brands on nearly a daily basis....so any preferences I have made has been from actual side by side comparisons...And my preferences have been made from real actual reasons that I can list one by one..... Now as I have said before....there are plenty of good engines in the $200.00 range...Go.Alpha..Precirotate...Argus etc...But for me right now the extra quality of materials of the Werk's wins me over.....remember I do modify engines, and we push them quite hard, so material quality matters a whole pile for what I do with them.....The beefier an engine is built, the harder we can push it before it fails....Nothing at all wrong with the other engines tho..
Obviously there are many people who are very happy with the performance of their chosen engine brand regardless of any other factor....I do have my personal preferences, and I think I have valid and actual reasoning behind my decisions...But in the end I respect everyone's choice of engine, even if it isn't what I would recommend..... I will help anyone who needs help wether they run a GO or a Werk's..I will also modify each engine to the best of my ability regardless of brand.......I am not a fan boy of any particular brand, I one f the few here who works with all the brands on nearly a daily basis....so any preferences I have made has been from actual side by side comparisons...And my preferences have been made from real actual reasons that I can list one by one..... Now as I have said before....there are plenty of good engines in the $200.00 range...Go.Alpha..Precirotate...Argus etc...But for me right now the extra quality of materials of the Werk's wins me over.....remember I do modify engines, and we push them quite hard, so material quality matters a whole pile for what I do with them.....The beefier an engine is built, the harder we can push it before it fails....Nothing at all wrong with the other engines tho..
12-22-2010, 01:04 PM
#51
I think its time for us all the put on our Asbestos underwear, its getting a little warm in here ! ! LOL J/K
Obviously there are many people who are very happy with the performance of their chosen engine brand regardless of any other factor....I do have my personal preferences, and I think I have valid and actual reasoning behind my decisions...But in the end I respect everyone's choice of engine, even if it isn't what I would recommend..... I will help anyone who needs help wether they run a GO or a Werk's..I will also modify each engine to the best of my ability regardless of brand.......I am not a fan boy of any particular brand, I one f the few here who works with all the brands on nearly a daily basis....so any preferences I have made has been from actual side by side comparisons...And my preferences have been made from real actual reasons that I can list one by one..... Now as I have said before....there are plenty of good engines in the $200.00 range...Go.Alpha..Precirotate...Argus etc...But for me right now the extra quality of materials of the Werk's wins me over.....remember I do modify engines, and we push them quite hard, so material quality matters a whole pile for what I do with them.....The beefier an engine is built, the harder we can push it before it fails....Nothing at all wrong with the other engines tho..
Obviously there are many people who are very happy with the performance of their chosen engine brand regardless of any other factor....I do have my personal preferences, and I think I have valid and actual reasoning behind my decisions...But in the end I respect everyone's choice of engine, even if it isn't what I would recommend..... I will help anyone who needs help wether they run a GO or a Werk's..I will also modify each engine to the best of my ability regardless of brand.......I am not a fan boy of any particular brand, I one f the few here who works with all the brands on nearly a daily basis....so any preferences I have made has been from actual side by side comparisons...And my preferences have been made from real actual reasons that I can list one by one..... Now as I have said before....there are plenty of good engines in the $200.00 range...Go.Alpha..Precirotate...Argus etc...But for me right now the extra quality of materials of the Werk's wins me over.....remember I do modify engines, and we push them quite hard, so material quality matters a whole pile for what I do with them.....The beefier an engine is built, the harder we can push it before it fails....Nothing at all wrong with the other engines tho..
....its great running Go engines out here in CALI, cause there is nothing but NOVA,WERKS and ALPHAS out here...me and my Go engines stick out like a pink shirt in a sea of black shirts...so when i do win its kind of heartbreaking to all the BIG sponsored guys....fortunately for us and unfortunately for others, the Taiwanese motors are making a stand.....
12-22-2010, 01:24 PM
#52
well ive personally never said anyone was better than the other. or mentioned anothers lack of quality. and i never even mentioned my experience running my 3/4 gallon old PR side by side with a B5 , just didnt want it to go there. i said there is MANY great mills in the 200 range... although the PR and GO are 100 less since you can get the pipe and engine for around 200... i very well could end up with a werks or whatever brand next go around. 
, just didnt want it to go there. i said there is MANY great mills in the 200 range... although the PR and GO are 100 less since you can get the pipe and engine for around 200... i very well could end up with a werks or whatever brand next go around.
12-22-2010, 01:31 PM
#53
and just remember having the fastest smoothest engine on the bock is cool but if you cant keep your lid upright rather then upside down then it means nothing.
For example Reedy Motor its winning races like crazy but its numbers are soft Hum wonder why.
Just be HaPpY
For example Reedy Motor its winning races like crazy but its numbers are soft Hum wonder why.
Just be HaPpY
12-22-2010, 01:32 PM
#54
matrix, I can see what you are saying about people might not take the full 2 gallons to break in an engine but what I'm trying to compare is life of engines running in their optimum condition, so at true race performance shall we say. To do otherwise I do not think would be really fair because the performance of a full broken in engine I think we will all agree will exceed that of an engine that is not, so it's like comparing apples to oranges then.
nitroexpress, I'm not stretching the truth because of any heat that I'm feeling lol but that was funny. The bearing change for brand B that I used was again based on what one poster mentioned his routing for maintaining his engine was, that is it. As far as a user of our engines not needing to change bearings when replacing P/S set on our motors, that is indeed what I have seen and frankly what happens 90% of the time with team guys.
In any case though this is a friendly debate again, so lets try to keep this nice and not get all defensive. At the end of the day all of the engines that fit in this price range will work just fine for the vast majority of people be it whatever brand they choose.
....looks like its gonna be another 2 weeds
12-22-2010, 01:39 PM
#57
I run both a Werks B5 (Buggy) and an Alpha Plus S852 (Truggy) and have tried each color Alpha...as well as a GO B21 engine. They are all different.
The Werks B5 and the Alpha Plus S852 have VERY VERY similar power deliveries IMHO. I honestly can't put one above the other running them back to back with the same gearing. I think the Alpha has a bit more bottom end, but the B5 seems to rev higher. So it's a wash in my book.
Both are GREAT engines, and you can argue between the 2 until you are blue in the face. I bought the B5 used with 2.5 gallons on it...and it still pulls VERY VERY hard. My Alpha plus I bought brand new and it now has 7 gallons on it with NO MAINTENANCE. No bearings...No rod...No pinch....no P/S/R...nothing. I have replaced the exhaust gasket twice.
I don't care what people say about the Taiwanese engines being subpar and crap materials. Even if they are....so what? If I can get an engine to run 7 gallons without so much as inspecting it from time to time....and I paid $200 for it. Where did I lose out? It is still every bit as powerful as when it was a 1 gallon engine. I even let a buddy borrow it a few weeks ago....when he was done he started asking questions about it and was FLOORED when I told him it had 7 gallons on it. It was every bit as powerful as his 3 gallon or so Ninja and had a LOT more bottom end for his Truggy to be able to clear some of the large jumps at our local track.
He bought an Orange Head Alpha a week later....
Bottom line....the Werks B5/B6 is a GREAT engine....but so is the Alpha Plus. I mean if you can take ANY $200 engine and be competitive with it for more than 5 gallons.....you have won. No matter how you slice it.
So to anyone looking for an engine....I would highly suggest you go to your local track and ask guys to give theirs a test run. They are ALL good engines these days. It's more a matter of which engine fits YOUR driving style.
Me personally....I like an explosive bottom end and a smooth mid and top. I don't care if it revs to 45K RPMS or 20K RPMS....as long as I can drive it the way that suits me best.
OK...my rant is over
The Werks B5 and the Alpha Plus S852 have VERY VERY similar power deliveries IMHO. I honestly can't put one above the other running them back to back with the same gearing. I think the Alpha has a bit more bottom end, but the B5 seems to rev higher. So it's a wash in my book.
Both are GREAT engines, and you can argue between the 2 until you are blue in the face. I bought the B5 used with 2.5 gallons on it...and it still pulls VERY VERY hard. My Alpha plus I bought brand new and it now has 7 gallons on it with NO MAINTENANCE. No bearings...No rod...No pinch....no P/S/R...nothing. I have replaced the exhaust gasket twice.
I don't care what people say about the Taiwanese engines being subpar and crap materials. Even if they are....so what? If I can get an engine to run 7 gallons without so much as inspecting it from time to time....and I paid $200 for it. Where did I lose out? It is still every bit as powerful as when it was a 1 gallon engine. I even let a buddy borrow it a few weeks ago....when he was done he started asking questions about it and was FLOORED when I told him it had 7 gallons on it. It was every bit as powerful as his 3 gallon or so Ninja and had a LOT more bottom end for his Truggy to be able to clear some of the large jumps at our local track.
He bought an Orange Head Alpha a week later....
Bottom line....the Werks B5/B6 is a GREAT engine....but so is the Alpha Plus. I mean if you can take ANY $200 engine and be competitive with it for more than 5 gallons.....you have won. No matter how you slice it.
So to anyone looking for an engine....I would highly suggest you go to your local track and ask guys to give theirs a test run. They are ALL good engines these days. It's more a matter of which engine fits YOUR driving style.
Me personally....I like an explosive bottom end and a smooth mid and top. I don't care if it revs to 45K RPMS or 20K RPMS....as long as I can drive it the way that suits me best.
OK...my rant is over
12-22-2010, 01:54 PM
#58
12-22-2010, 01:56 PM
#60
yet another pissing contest thread on on here surprise surprise
Lets face it guys, choice is a good thing as not everybodies likes etc are the same.
Again I refere to engines are like woman.
(the GO guys know what I mean)
If everybody liked Scarlet Johansen and no one liked Megan Fox, etc etc etc then Scarlet would be beetin em off with a stick while all the rest of the world missed out, and the human race would be reduced to just one line of breeding stock.
If everybody liked only one engine then thats all that would be running at the tracks.
Variety and choice is what keeps the hobby moving forward and helps keep the costs of our sport down too.
my 2c
Lets face it guys, choice is a good thing as not everybodies likes etc are the same.
Again I refere to engines are like woman.
(the GO guys know what I mean)
If everybody liked Scarlet Johansen and no one liked Megan Fox, etc etc etc then Scarlet would be beetin em off with a stick while all the rest of the world missed out, and the human race would be reduced to just one line of breeding stock.
If everybody liked only one engine then thats all that would be running at the tracks.
Variety and choice is what keeps the hobby moving forward and helps keep the costs of our sport down too.
my 2c