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-   -   The New Werks B5 .21 Racing Engine (https://www.rctech.net/forum/offroad-nitro-engine-forum/319017-new-werks-b5-21-racing-engine.html)

heidmann1 02-01-2010 07:56 AM

Ya, first off change or check all your fuel lines for any leaks, your fuel tank, your fuel filter if you have one installed. did you notice any excessive wetness(dirt ticking to a particular area) that would sho signs of a leak. and change your glo plug. If the engine is totally worn out. when it is cold there will be pretty much no compression and very easy to turn the engine over if it is hot and there is still compression. It should be still ok.And like posted above, check your clutch.make sure you dont have a broken shoe or spring,bad bearings or incorrect gear mesh. If the gear mesh is off and your vehicle has a lot of chassis flex it could when landing on thrittle bind the gears and stall. Also make sure you have the right flywheel on. I have seen some guys use the wrong mounts/flywheel and the flywheel is actually perfectly flush or even portuding down from the chassis so it would actually hit the ground and stop the engine. also It is a posibility that the (pro) did not get a perfect tune on it,so dont totally rule it out that it is simply just not your tuning, I'm not saying for sure he didnt tune it right, but just double check that first before you pull to much hair out...............MOst of this I am sure does not apply, but I am just listing everything I can think of just in case:) Hope this helps.

hyperc10 02-01-2010 04:36 PM

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I'm running the Werks clutch with great success I would say it is a great investment no more broken pain in the arss clutch springs.I ran it for the first time in my D8 with a B5 at TWRP in Diamond, MO.(This track made the march isssue of RCcaraction)There were problems in the past with the adjustment nut walking but a intergrated Oring has taken care of all problems.I set the adjustment nut flush and ran one half gallon with no problems.Checked it after each heat in fear of it walking it did not!Plenty of snap from this clutch and very smooth throttle response.

Werks 02-01-2010 04:59 PM


Originally Posted by hyperc10 (Post 6941508)
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I'm running the Werks clutch with great success I would say it is a great investment no more broken pain in the arss clutch springs.I ran it for the first time in my D8 with a B5 at TWRP in Diamond, MO.(This track made the march isssue of RCcaraction)There were problems in the past with the adjustment nut walking but a intergrated Oring has taken care of all problems.I set the adjustment nut flush and ran one half gallon with no problems.Checked it after each heat in fear of it walking it did not!Plenty of snap from this clutch and very smooth throttle response.

Yep, we changed the design of the adjusting nut a while ago to include the integral o-ring. So now no need to use locktite and no worries about the nut moving due to vibration. Once you get the clutch dialed in to where you like it, it's basically something that you can completely forget about! The beauty of the system is also that the shoes contact about 90% of the surface of the bell so you get a LOT less wear on your shoes. A properly adjusted clutch should go an easy 4-5 gallons on a set of shoes!

marshon50 02-01-2010 05:12 PM

Ron, any pics of the new clutch nut? How long ago was the update made? How can I ensure I'm getting the new one if I order from Tower or Amain or Fleabay. I've got 2 Werks clutch setups that I don't use and was kinda wondering why no one really used them much anymore. I hear about 4 shoe clutch setups from M2C, Ascendency, Fioroni, etc, but not really Werks anymore... And they used to be the hot ticket. If I can get the right clutch nut, I'll revive my Werks clutches. I was just about to order some RC8 clutch shoes from Answer RC, but I may hold off now.

Also, I finally put some fuel through my B5. Got up to the third tank on the breakin process. Had the head wrapped and preheated because of the mid 30 degree temps.

Werks 02-01-2010 05:14 PM


Originally Posted by JANKEII (Post 6926918)
Have had the engine for 5.5 gallons now. My friend and me have the same engine. We love this engine... I've gotton off tune a little. The engine would idle then the idle sound would drop. Then the engine would die. I had the idle gap to wide. So I went back to stock settings with the needles (flush). Closed the idle gap to just smaller than a credit card size.
It was hard for me to get the temp up to around 200F. Even after driving around for around 5-10min. Temp was around 130F-150F.
So I started to lean the bottom one hour at a time. Until I could get a steady idle. Then the engine would die...
So here is my question: Should I still lean the bottom or start leaning the high? Is this a tale tale sign the engine is going bad?
Thanks

JANEKII, sorry about the delayed response, I've been off of the site for a couple of days (so anyone that has sent me PM's etc. please be advised I'm working my way through them and will be getting back to you over the course of the next day or so).

Now regarding what you are seeing there are several things that can cause the tune to change i.e. weather changes, humidity, plug (going out), fuel tank/line issues, clogged filter etc. etc. etc. The first thing that I would advise is just like everyone else (thank you guys) has suggested is to just quickly double check everything is ok. If everything looks fine then you are probably just off on tune. Simply set your air gap to aprox .5mm, set your HS flush, set your LS flush and then fire the engine up. We know your engine is broken in so you can do things a little quicker. Blip the throttle for a couple of minutes to get some heat in the engine case and chassis then let it come down to idle. We are again going to use my system so if the idle is low, lean the LS to bring it back up. If the idle is high, richen the LS to bring it down. Once you get a smooth, steady idle toss the car on the track and start doing some laps and adjusting the HS for the top end performance that you want. Please keep in mind that when adjusting the HS if you lean it, it will also have the effect of leaning your LS. So... your idle will go up, simply richen the LS a couple hours to offset this (do not touch the idle stop screw) and you see a steady idle again. Keep on adjusting the HS, then the LS (for the idle) until you get the performance that you want. Once you get the HS set to where you want it, double check the idle and adjust it one last time with the LS needle and you are done!

Don't get stuck in the I have to see this temp in order for the engine to be running right type mentality. There are a lot of variables that will affect the optimum running temp of your engine and chiefly what is affecting it most this time of year is the exterior temperature. If it's 20 degrees outside your engine may only want to run at 190. If it's fast enough for you at 190 then leave it there and have fun...

Hope this helps, please give this a shot and let us know what you come up with.

Regards,

Ron Hopkins
Werks Racing

kgombe 02-01-2010 05:16 PM


Originally Posted by Werks (Post 6941657)
Yep, we changed the design of the adjusting nut a while ago to include the integral o-ring. So now no need to use locktite and no worries about the nut moving due to vibration. Once you get the clutch dialed in to where you like it, it's basically something that you can completely forget about! The beauty of the system is also that the shoes contact about 90% of the surface of the bell so you get a LOT less wear on your shoes. A properly adjusted clutch should go an easy 4-5 gallons on a set of shoes!

so the clutches that amain has in stock will have the new clutch nut.. i only see you give dimensions for 1 of them.. i'm looking for a 34mm flywheel which one would be that size.. i used these clutches in the past and gave them away cause of the nut walking

hdcruzer 02-01-2010 05:19 PM

Ron, You have a PM. Thanks Rick

Werks 02-01-2010 05:34 PM


Originally Posted by Grimlock212 (Post 6935183)
OK I am planning out my Losi 8ight 2.0 buggy and this seems to be the engine to go with. I see that there is an updated carb design, but amainhobbies doesn't have it in stock. Does anyone have any advice on where to pick it up?

Also from going through the thread it seems that the Orion 2013 is best all around pipe to run with this. Is that correct?

One final question. I think I may be building a Truggy in the future as well, is this a competitive Truggy motor? I figure it would be way simpler if I could run the same motor in both rigs so I can become a real expert on it.

Thanks for any advice!

Hello Grimlock, A-main just ran out of stock last week. We currently have a shipment with UPS that will be here in 4-5 days. In the interim you can also get one at RC Planet at this link:

http://www.rcplanet.com/Werks_Offroa.../wrxtl21b5.htm

these engines also have the 2010 alloy carb on them. As far as the pipe is concerned you will want to go with the 2013 pipe set, just make sure that it is the 2010 spec which has the braced stinger and the thicker pipe material. Lastly as far a pushing around a truggy with the B5, no problem at all!

Regards,

Ron

1armed1 02-01-2010 05:36 PM


Originally Posted by kgombe (Post 6941773)
so the clutches that amain has in stock will have the new clutch nut.. i only see you give dimensions for 1 of them.. i'm looking for a 34mm flywheel which one would be that size.. i used these clutches in the past and gave them away cause of the nut walking

The 34mm flywheel is the standard size (Jammin,Hotbodies,ect..) A Kyosho flywheel is 32mm.

The clutch nut was updated just a little over a year ago, maybe longer so anything you order should be the updated nut.

Dayton

Werks 02-01-2010 05:38 PM


Originally Posted by hdcruzer (Post 6941786)
Ron, You have a PM. Thanks Rick

Thanks, I think I mentioned two posts up I'm behind on PM's and posting on the forum. Finally decided to take the weekend off. I'm trying to take care of the posts on the thread first then I'll get to the PM's. I'll answer them in the order that I got them so if you sent me on you'll get a reply, please be patient.

Ron

kgombe 02-01-2010 05:39 PM


Originally Posted by 1armed1 (Post 6941894)
The 34mm flywheel is the standard size (Jammin,Hotbodies,ect..) A Kyosho flywheel is 32mm.

The clutch nut was updated just a little over a year ago, maybe longer so anything you order should be the updated nut.

Dayton

so part number WRX6501 is the correct flywheel... 34mm is the one i want for my hot bodies

Werks 02-01-2010 05:39 PM


Originally Posted by croracer (Post 6936938)
i was intrested in getting this motor for my mugen mbx6t. What would be the best pipe combo the 2013 or 2035?
I run on a big track, im looking for better fuel mileage. I run at revalation, in CA.

also, what kind of fuel mileage are you guys getting on a big track in a truggy/

thanks

I'd go with the 2013 pipe set. For run times I'd speak with Heidmann he should be able to answer this specifically as he runs all the time at Rev.

Ron

1armed1 02-01-2010 05:42 PM


Originally Posted by kgombe (Post 6941923)
so part number WRX6501 is the correct flywheel... 34mm is the one i want for my hot bodies

Correct,
That is the one I have in my D8 now.

Dayton

kgombe 02-01-2010 05:44 PM

ok i would really like to know if its 34 or 35 cause i have teh bce chassis on mine... and 35 mm use to work b4.... but with the bce its almost flush with the chassis.. and that no worky

Werks 02-01-2010 05:50 PM


Originally Posted by JANKEII (Post 6937786)
Thanks guys,
I had a race this weekend and had an expert tune the engine. He had the engine running great.
The three quailifers(6min) the engine ran great. Then the main came(30min), and the engine would die during the race. Happen three times duirng the race. The engine still has great compression.
I know when the engine was new the engine would idle with no problem. I feel like the engine is close to tune. I know temp outside and etc would effect the tune a little. Just was wondering if you guys think the engine is done.
Thanks

Oh, when I finished the race the temp was 215F. During the fuel pits the temp was always around that temp. I have never run the engine above 220F.

Ok, just ran across your second post. Couple of things to consider here, if you had an issue with the idle at first then the guy tuned it and it ran great for 3 qualifiers then it flamed out in the mail this would indicate to me that the engine is not done. If the engine or I should say the P/S is shot then you will not be able to make the engine idle at all which you clearly can do. All that I think that you are doing is running the engine too rich. Never running a motor above 220F is not necessarily a good thing, just run the engine where it performs best.

So... now we get to the question of what changed to have it run fine in the qualifiers and then flame out in the main. Well there are a couple of possibilities but if you are already running rich as I'm thinking the most likely one is that your driving style changed lol! Sounds odd I know but in qualifiers people have a tendency to drive harder than they normally do, this causes the engines to run hotter. During the course of a 30 minute main most people start off punched (which makes your engine run hotter) and then tend to get into a zone and mellow out and drive a lot smoother (which makes your motor run cooler). So if you were already rich to start with in the quals driving hard you would end up even richer in the main when you are driving smoother, make sense? So in my opinion just lean the engine out to elevate the idle and you should be good. Let me know if this works for you.

Regards,

Ron


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