651LikesSeattle RC Racers/North SeaTac Racing Center
08-03-2022, 04:29 PM
#2461
Hey all, for those not on the FaceBook, we are going to spray the track this Sat. I picked up 24 x 2L bottles of soda, whether we use it all on one race day is yet to be determined. I'd like to ask if you have a pump up weed sprayer, such as a 2gal or even a back pack sprayer, please bring it. The more the merrier. Weather should be fantastic. Lets have a great race day!
08-05-2022, 09:29 AM
#2465
Hey all, for those not on the FaceBook, we are going to spray the track this Sat. I picked up 24 x 2L bottles of soda, whether we use it all on one race day is yet to be determined. I'd like to ask if you have a pump up weed sprayer, such as a 2gal or even a back pack sprayer, please bring it. The more the merrier. Weather should be fantastic. Lets have a great race day!
08-07-2022, 11:42 PM
#2466
SeaTac ramblings
SeaTac ramblings:
My race day this past Saturday ended with a wheel coming off my car in the modified sedan main and a head on impact on the straight resulting in as we in RC say “re-kit.” The part that hurts the most is that I trashed a new body I was testing! That being said, it was still a great day, and I think our track is just a little slice of RC heaven. I don’t know why everyone doesn’t want to throw down a 4wd touring car out there each and every race day. It’s such a beautiful track and a blast just to turn laps.
I have to admit, I thought the decision last year to run the track without spraying sugar water was a bit strange, and if I was on the committee, I probably would have voted against it. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but now after experiencing the spray again on Saturday, I think I’ve come around to prefer no spray.
I understand that a catalyst to the no spray decision last year was the loss of storage for our sprayer, but there are also a couple clear advantages to not spaying the track:
1) You can practice any time during the week, and the track condition will match race conditions
2) We can get more racing in during the cooler and threat-of-rain conditions in the spring and early summer because the track dries MUCH faster without spray.
On Saturday, with the sprayed track, I personally didn’t experience any advantage to running on sugar water again. My car wasn’t better or more balanced or easier to drive. it just pushed a bit and was actually a bit more edgy when driving at the limit. Possibly, this is just sour grapes on my part because I was a bit farther off the pace than usual on Saturday, and possibly my Xray T4 21 is just better suited in comparison to other cars in the lower traction no spray conditions. I do have to admit that on the no spray track my car was pretty dialed from day one with no fuss or having to chase a setup. But, there also may have been some other reasons for me being off the pace with Saturday’s spray such as, I only ran used tires and never broke out a new set, I ran out of my tried and true FX2 sauce, my deep cycle battery took a dump, and I lost tire warming capability after round 2, and sweepers are sometimes my nemesis, and the roval layout we ran had two of them.
I noticed a couple other possible disadvantages to the spray. More people than usual were rolling after hitting the berms/rumble strips, likely because the higher grip will grab the tires just that bit more and flip a car that is unsettled. Also, I think I had higher than normal tire wear. Granted, we were running a roval on a hot day, so possibly the tire wear was just layout dependent. We were travelling at higher speeds because of the traction, so maybe the higher speeds did eat up the tires that much more quickly.
So, I’m sitting here noticing the advantages to running without spaying the track, and I’m not seeing any advantages to spending the time, money, and effort to spray the track. Well, there is one possibly very important advantage to spraying the track. I have heard that some people will only race if there is a sprayed track because they think it’s better. It doesn’t really matter if the opinion is based in reality or not, I believe it alone is a compelling reason to spray. If it get’s more people to the track, I say spray away. I’ll be showing up whether we spray or not.
Rambling Side note: I didn’t race F1 on Saturday, but I did put my car on the track, and I have to admit, I think F1 does hook up a bit better with spray. But, we had some great F1 racing at the Sizzler with no spray. Personally, I would still vote for no spray, but to help the F1 class I’d advocate to change the F1 motor rules from 21.5 to 25.5 next year. 25.5 would be easier to drive, we’d have closer racing, and the speed differential between the top drivers and the up-and-coming drivers would not be as great. I know that in years past there have been some really strong supporters of 21.5, and if there is still support for it, great, leave the rules alone. I like most tracks in the country would vote for 25.5.
Rambling over. I love racing at SeaTac, and thanks as always to everyone who puts in the hard work to run the show, and thanks to all the racers. I’ll see you at the next race, that is if I can rebuild my car in time 😊
- Brian
My race day this past Saturday ended with a wheel coming off my car in the modified sedan main and a head on impact on the straight resulting in as we in RC say “re-kit.” The part that hurts the most is that I trashed a new body I was testing! That being said, it was still a great day, and I think our track is just a little slice of RC heaven. I don’t know why everyone doesn’t want to throw down a 4wd touring car out there each and every race day. It’s such a beautiful track and a blast just to turn laps.
I have to admit, I thought the decision last year to run the track without spraying sugar water was a bit strange, and if I was on the committee, I probably would have voted against it. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but now after experiencing the spray again on Saturday, I think I’ve come around to prefer no spray.
I understand that a catalyst to the no spray decision last year was the loss of storage for our sprayer, but there are also a couple clear advantages to not spaying the track:
1) You can practice any time during the week, and the track condition will match race conditions
2) We can get more racing in during the cooler and threat-of-rain conditions in the spring and early summer because the track dries MUCH faster without spray.
On Saturday, with the sprayed track, I personally didn’t experience any advantage to running on sugar water again. My car wasn’t better or more balanced or easier to drive. it just pushed a bit and was actually a bit more edgy when driving at the limit. Possibly, this is just sour grapes on my part because I was a bit farther off the pace than usual on Saturday, and possibly my Xray T4 21 is just better suited in comparison to other cars in the lower traction no spray conditions. I do have to admit that on the no spray track my car was pretty dialed from day one with no fuss or having to chase a setup. But, there also may have been some other reasons for me being off the pace with Saturday’s spray such as, I only ran used tires and never broke out a new set, I ran out of my tried and true FX2 sauce, my deep cycle battery took a dump, and I lost tire warming capability after round 2, and sweepers are sometimes my nemesis, and the roval layout we ran had two of them.
I noticed a couple other possible disadvantages to the spray. More people than usual were rolling after hitting the berms/rumble strips, likely because the higher grip will grab the tires just that bit more and flip a car that is unsettled. Also, I think I had higher than normal tire wear. Granted, we were running a roval on a hot day, so possibly the tire wear was just layout dependent. We were travelling at higher speeds because of the traction, so maybe the higher speeds did eat up the tires that much more quickly.
So, I’m sitting here noticing the advantages to running without spaying the track, and I’m not seeing any advantages to spending the time, money, and effort to spray the track. Well, there is one possibly very important advantage to spraying the track. I have heard that some people will only race if there is a sprayed track because they think it’s better. It doesn’t really matter if the opinion is based in reality or not, I believe it alone is a compelling reason to spray. If it get’s more people to the track, I say spray away. I’ll be showing up whether we spray or not.
Rambling Side note: I didn’t race F1 on Saturday, but I did put my car on the track, and I have to admit, I think F1 does hook up a bit better with spray. But, we had some great F1 racing at the Sizzler with no spray. Personally, I would still vote for no spray, but to help the F1 class I’d advocate to change the F1 motor rules from 21.5 to 25.5 next year. 25.5 would be easier to drive, we’d have closer racing, and the speed differential between the top drivers and the up-and-coming drivers would not be as great. I know that in years past there have been some really strong supporters of 21.5, and if there is still support for it, great, leave the rules alone. I like most tracks in the country would vote for 25.5.
Rambling over. I love racing at SeaTac, and thanks as always to everyone who puts in the hard work to run the show, and thanks to all the racers. I’ll see you at the next race, that is if I can rebuild my car in time 😊
- Brian
08-08-2022, 06:39 AM
#2467
SeaTac ramblings:
My race day this past Saturday ended with a wheel coming off my car in the modified sedan main and a head on impact on the straight resulting in as we in RC say “re-kit.” The part that hurts the most is that I trashed a new body I was testing! That being said, it was still a great day, and I think our track is just a little slice of RC heaven. I don’t know why everyone doesn’t want to throw down a 4wd touring car out there each and every race day. It’s such a beautiful track and a blast just to turn laps.
I have to admit, I thought the decision last year to run the track without spraying sugar water was a bit strange, and if I was on the committee, I probably would have voted against it. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but now after experiencing the spray again on Saturday, I think I’ve come around to prefer no spray.
I understand that a catalyst to the no spray decision last year was the loss of storage for our sprayer, but there are also a couple clear advantages to not spaying the track:
1) You can practice any time during the week, and the track condition will match race conditions
2) We can get more racing in during the cooler and threat-of-rain conditions in the spring and early summer because the track dries MUCH faster without spray.
On Saturday, with the sprayed track, I personally didn’t experience any advantage to running on sugar water again. My car wasn’t better or more balanced or easier to drive. it just pushed a bit and was actually a bit more edgy when driving at the limit. Possibly, this is just sour grapes on my part because I was a bit farther off the pace than usual on Saturday, and possibly my Xray T4 21 is just better suited in comparison to other cars in the lower traction no spray conditions. I do have to admit that on the no spray track my car was pretty dialed from day one with no fuss or having to chase a setup. But, there also may have been some other reasons for me being off the pace with Saturday’s spray such as, I only ran used tires and never broke out a new set, I ran out of my tried and true FX2 sauce, my deep cycle battery took a dump, and I lost tire warming capability after round 2, and sweepers are sometimes my nemesis, and the roval layout we ran had two of them.
I noticed a couple other possible disadvantages to the spray. More people than usual were rolling after hitting the berms/rumble strips, likely because the higher grip will grab the tires just that bit more and flip a car that is unsettled. Also, I think I had higher than normal tire wear. Granted, we were running a roval on a hot day, so possibly the tire wear was just layout dependent. We were travelling at higher speeds because of the traction, so maybe the higher speeds did eat up the tires that much more quickly.
So, I’m sitting here noticing the advantages to running without spaying the track, and I’m not seeing any advantages to spending the time, money, and effort to spray the track. Well, there is one possibly very important advantage to spraying the track. I have heard that some people will only race if there is a sprayed track because they think it’s better. It doesn’t really matter if the opinion is based in reality or not, I believe it alone is a compelling reason to spray. If it get’s more people to the track, I say spray away. I’ll be showing up whether we spray or not.
Rambling Side note: I didn’t race F1 on Saturday, but I did put my car on the track, and I have to admit, I think F1 does hook up a bit better with spray. But, we had some great F1 racing at the Sizzler with no spray. Personally, I would still vote for no spray, but to help the F1 class I’d advocate to change the F1 motor rules from 21.5 to 25.5 next year. 25.5 would be easier to drive, we’d have closer racing, and the speed differential between the top drivers and the up-and-coming drivers would not be as great. I know that in years past there have been some really strong supporters of 21.5, and if there is still support for it, great, leave the rules alone. I like most tracks in the country would vote for 25.5.
Rambling over. I love racing at SeaTac, and thanks as always to everyone who puts in the hard work to run the show, and thanks to all the racers. I’ll see you at the next race, that is if I can rebuild my car in time 😊
- Brian
My race day this past Saturday ended with a wheel coming off my car in the modified sedan main and a head on impact on the straight resulting in as we in RC say “re-kit.” The part that hurts the most is that I trashed a new body I was testing! That being said, it was still a great day, and I think our track is just a little slice of RC heaven. I don’t know why everyone doesn’t want to throw down a 4wd touring car out there each and every race day. It’s such a beautiful track and a blast just to turn laps.
I have to admit, I thought the decision last year to run the track without spraying sugar water was a bit strange, and if I was on the committee, I probably would have voted against it. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but now after experiencing the spray again on Saturday, I think I’ve come around to prefer no spray.
I understand that a catalyst to the no spray decision last year was the loss of storage for our sprayer, but there are also a couple clear advantages to not spaying the track:
1) You can practice any time during the week, and the track condition will match race conditions
2) We can get more racing in during the cooler and threat-of-rain conditions in the spring and early summer because the track dries MUCH faster without spray.
On Saturday, with the sprayed track, I personally didn’t experience any advantage to running on sugar water again. My car wasn’t better or more balanced or easier to drive. it just pushed a bit and was actually a bit more edgy when driving at the limit. Possibly, this is just sour grapes on my part because I was a bit farther off the pace than usual on Saturday, and possibly my Xray T4 21 is just better suited in comparison to other cars in the lower traction no spray conditions. I do have to admit that on the no spray track my car was pretty dialed from day one with no fuss or having to chase a setup. But, there also may have been some other reasons for me being off the pace with Saturday’s spray such as, I only ran used tires and never broke out a new set, I ran out of my tried and true FX2 sauce, my deep cycle battery took a dump, and I lost tire warming capability after round 2, and sweepers are sometimes my nemesis, and the roval layout we ran had two of them.
I noticed a couple other possible disadvantages to the spray. More people than usual were rolling after hitting the berms/rumble strips, likely because the higher grip will grab the tires just that bit more and flip a car that is unsettled. Also, I think I had higher than normal tire wear. Granted, we were running a roval on a hot day, so possibly the tire wear was just layout dependent. We were travelling at higher speeds because of the traction, so maybe the higher speeds did eat up the tires that much more quickly.
So, I’m sitting here noticing the advantages to running without spaying the track, and I’m not seeing any advantages to spending the time, money, and effort to spray the track. Well, there is one possibly very important advantage to spraying the track. I have heard that some people will only race if there is a sprayed track because they think it’s better. It doesn’t really matter if the opinion is based in reality or not, I believe it alone is a compelling reason to spray. If it get’s more people to the track, I say spray away. I’ll be showing up whether we spray or not.
Rambling Side note: I didn’t race F1 on Saturday, but I did put my car on the track, and I have to admit, I think F1 does hook up a bit better with spray. But, we had some great F1 racing at the Sizzler with no spray. Personally, I would still vote for no spray, but to help the F1 class I’d advocate to change the F1 motor rules from 21.5 to 25.5 next year. 25.5 would be easier to drive, we’d have closer racing, and the speed differential between the top drivers and the up-and-coming drivers would not be as great. I know that in years past there have been some really strong supporters of 21.5, and if there is still support for it, great, leave the rules alone. I like most tracks in the country would vote for 25.5.
Rambling over. I love racing at SeaTac, and thanks as always to everyone who puts in the hard work to run the show, and thanks to all the racers. I’ll see you at the next race, that is if I can rebuild my car in time 😊
- Brian
08-08-2022, 10:49 PM
#2469
Track Discussions
After months, even years, of little to no conversation on the subjects, we are suddenly having urgent discussions about our track. Specifically about traction spray and lane barriers. Related to each in their way, we also are dealing with whether and how to respond to statements in private and online about non-participation unless we change how we do things.
Traction Spray
Brian provided a good outline of his experience and opinion on the subject just a couple posts above. It's worth a read. Brian's take would be valuable whether I ultimately agree with him or no - as it happens, I find that I am mostly in agreement. As the club president and Seatac race director, I am obliged to continually test my assumptions and to put what's best for the larger group of racers ahead of my own preferences. To my mind there are clear upsides to running on the natural surface:
Lane Barriers
Our track design reflects a carefully considered set of factors. Among the chief considerations was to build a track that is easy on cars. It also has to fit into the context of our setting - an open public facility that would get all kinds of unintended traffic, up to and including actual electric go-karts (yes, true). The permanent features have to be super durable and present minimal hazard to random passers-by. Lane barriers were a topic from the get-go. Those of us who had the biggest say settled on a minimalist approach that eliminated hard internal barriers. We knew perfectly well that while we were mitigating one set of risks, we were also accepting others.
In my experience as a racer and RD, our original vision has come to mostly positive reality. The track is easy on cars, and bad accidents are rare. That said, accidents do happen, and we had a particularly bad one in the Mod main this last time out that did considerable damage to two cars. Extending the greatest portion of sympathy to the racers with the busted cars, I also feel pain on behalf of my fellow track designers - we hate to see this happen. It does not help anyone to refer to the overall safety picture when two expensive touring cars are reduced to jumbles of broken parts on the pit tables.
I've seen cars - my own and others - get busted up on every kind of track: ribbon tracks, carpet tracks, PVC pipe tracks, board tracks, Road Rail tracks, and our track. Anyone who has raced for any length of time knows that stuff happens. In this recent case, it is clear that a barrier would have contained the disabled car that came onto the straight. No question. And while most of the time it's fair to argue the difference between perceived risk and reality, this is a reality is reality example that compels a reconsideration of our approach.
Mike Hanulec hosts an online radio show called Track Rats. I will be on the show tomorrow to discuss the events of the weekend (his was one of the damaged cars) and field whatever questions or comments come my way.
Traction Spray
Brian provided a good outline of his experience and opinion on the subject just a couple posts above. It's worth a read. Brian's take would be valuable whether I ultimately agree with him or no - as it happens, I find that I am mostly in agreement. As the club president and Seatac race director, I am obliged to continually test my assumptions and to put what's best for the larger group of racers ahead of my own preferences. To my mind there are clear upsides to running on the natural surface:
- Flat traction curve through through a day
- Easy to practice in race conditions
- Less prep for race day crew
- More grip for parts of day
- More forgiving for F1 and USGT racers
Lane Barriers
Our track design reflects a carefully considered set of factors. Among the chief considerations was to build a track that is easy on cars. It also has to fit into the context of our setting - an open public facility that would get all kinds of unintended traffic, up to and including actual electric go-karts (yes, true). The permanent features have to be super durable and present minimal hazard to random passers-by. Lane barriers were a topic from the get-go. Those of us who had the biggest say settled on a minimalist approach that eliminated hard internal barriers. We knew perfectly well that while we were mitigating one set of risks, we were also accepting others.
In my experience as a racer and RD, our original vision has come to mostly positive reality. The track is easy on cars, and bad accidents are rare. That said, accidents do happen, and we had a particularly bad one in the Mod main this last time out that did considerable damage to two cars. Extending the greatest portion of sympathy to the racers with the busted cars, I also feel pain on behalf of my fellow track designers - we hate to see this happen. It does not help anyone to refer to the overall safety picture when two expensive touring cars are reduced to jumbles of broken parts on the pit tables.
I've seen cars - my own and others - get busted up on every kind of track: ribbon tracks, carpet tracks, PVC pipe tracks, board tracks, Road Rail tracks, and our track. Anyone who has raced for any length of time knows that stuff happens. In this recent case, it is clear that a barrier would have contained the disabled car that came onto the straight. No question. And while most of the time it's fair to argue the difference between perceived risk and reality, this is a reality is reality example that compels a reconsideration of our approach.
Mike Hanulec hosts an online radio show called Track Rats. I will be on the show tomorrow to discuss the events of the weekend (his was one of the damaged cars) and field whatever questions or comments come my way.
08-09-2022, 02:12 PM
#2470
Unfortunate to hear about a write-off on track. Glad we're racing RC cars and not actually inside them.
If I may add my two cents, I love sprayed tracks, and I need barriers between lanes.
Our local track in Vancouver, BC is quite different from your surface. You have adequate and some days good tracking without spraying. We have a rougher surface and way too much road debris and dust that is blown off for there to be anything close to grip without spray. Even with 50 bottles of pop and our track surface at home, keeping shoes stuck to it, I've heard from a few that they don't race, because "indoor grip is better." I take input more seriously from the racers that are there, week in, week out, hands on for setup and teardown. What I usually hear from the locals that are always present, "more spray is better, as long as it isn't overdone and greasy". I agree with that, it's nice having the grip level closer to a big on road event. Nothing hurts more than bringing a locally dialed car to Timezone to traction roll on the straightaway and cartwheel in the corners, ask me how I know.
I prefer Seatac with at least a light dusting of pop, but it is also better than just fine, the times I've attended without spray. We run exclusively Coke, not only because it's the best soft drink, but it just seems to work and stick better than any other flavor or variant of Cola.
Track barriers: they're needed. Like the outer edge barrier, you just know that without it, cars will go onto the grass / hit peoples pits or spectators. Without talking about cutting corners on the Seatac track, I believe there should be at least dividers of some sort between the outer high speed sections and the infield. We run heavier and more damaging nitro cars, but we've managed to build strong dividers by putting wood inside downspout plastic, and there is ample give on them. You guys could probably skip the PVC pipe that cars can hop over, and just run the indoor style barriers like these without wood in them. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Amerimax...ownspout-M0593 If these get ruined quickly, then you'll know there's a need for the barriers, and even stronger ones.
See you guys soon!
If I may add my two cents, I love sprayed tracks, and I need barriers between lanes.
Our local track in Vancouver, BC is quite different from your surface. You have adequate and some days good tracking without spraying. We have a rougher surface and way too much road debris and dust that is blown off for there to be anything close to grip without spray. Even with 50 bottles of pop and our track surface at home, keeping shoes stuck to it, I've heard from a few that they don't race, because "indoor grip is better." I take input more seriously from the racers that are there, week in, week out, hands on for setup and teardown. What I usually hear from the locals that are always present, "more spray is better, as long as it isn't overdone and greasy". I agree with that, it's nice having the grip level closer to a big on road event. Nothing hurts more than bringing a locally dialed car to Timezone to traction roll on the straightaway and cartwheel in the corners, ask me how I know.
I prefer Seatac with at least a light dusting of pop, but it is also better than just fine, the times I've attended without spray. We run exclusively Coke, not only because it's the best soft drink, but it just seems to work and stick better than any other flavor or variant of Cola.
Track barriers: they're needed. Like the outer edge barrier, you just know that without it, cars will go onto the grass / hit peoples pits or spectators. Without talking about cutting corners on the Seatac track, I believe there should be at least dividers of some sort between the outer high speed sections and the infield. We run heavier and more damaging nitro cars, but we've managed to build strong dividers by putting wood inside downspout plastic, and there is ample give on them. You guys could probably skip the PVC pipe that cars can hop over, and just run the indoor style barriers like these without wood in them. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Amerimax...ownspout-M0593 If these get ruined quickly, then you'll know there's a need for the barriers, and even stronger ones.
See you guys soon!
08-09-2022, 02:45 PM
#2471
good looking out John 
this is a USA version of your HD link -- https://www.homedepot.com/p/Amerimax...0593/100095267
this is a USA version of your HD link -- https://www.homedepot.com/p/Amerimax...0593/100095267
08-09-2022, 06:31 PM
#2472
hey Brian,
as far as F1 I've been running 25.5 all year. last time i ran i found a gear ratio and a set of tires i was very happy with.
with the news of spraying the track i put in a 21.5 and i had to baby the car around the track if i got on the trigger to hard it would spin, even half way down the straight. if i let off to quick it would want to come around because of the increase in natural motor braking.
as far as spraying
after years of racing at FW I like a sprayed track, however this year i have become accustomed to a dry track, so I'm good with spraying or not spraying either way.
as far as F1 I've been running 25.5 all year. last time i ran i found a gear ratio and a set of tires i was very happy with.
with the news of spraying the track i put in a 21.5 and i had to baby the car around the track if i got on the trigger to hard it would spin, even half way down the straight. if i let off to quick it would want to come around because of the increase in natural motor braking.
as far as spraying
after years of racing at FW I like a sprayed track, however this year i have become accustomed to a dry track, so I'm good with spraying or not spraying either way.
08-09-2022, 07:11 PM
#2473
I prefer a sprayed track and find the f1 cars tend to be far more predicatble when the grip us up. Its not a deciding factor factor if i race but is a stong preference.
When it comes to F1 its not just the lack of spray thats made them more skitish compared to previous years its also new generation tires that lag far behind the old ride tires that were so popular.
Spray or no spray I agree a change to 25.5 would make the cars easier to drive with far less difference in lap time than many would think.
When it comes to F1 its not just the lack of spray thats made them more skitish compared to previous years its also new generation tires that lag far behind the old ride tires that were so popular.
Spray or no spray I agree a change to 25.5 would make the cars easier to drive with far less difference in lap time than many would think.