Team Magic G4
02-05-2010, 07:42 PM
I don't believe it, the menace has found his way back here. Good to see you remember how to log in.
02-05-2010, 07:47 PM
Lol.... I didn't remember haha
I had to figure it out again. hehe
Whats with all these names in your signature now????
Getting to be like a doctor?? ... a doctor of rc..hehe
Anybody would think your a sponsored driver now??
Hold on a minute . You are ???
Oh no.... there goes the neighborhood. qcrc is now sponsored!!!
Cripes .... I have been out of this game a long time!!
I had to figure it out again. hehe
Whats with all these names in your signature now????
Getting to be like a doctor?? ... a doctor of rc..hehe
Anybody would think your a sponsored driver now??
Hold on a minute . You are ???
Oh no.... there goes the neighborhood. qcrc is now sponsored!!!
Cripes .... I have been out of this game a long time!!
02-05-2010, 08:34 PM
Tks
Heloo all you G4 runners .....
How are we all?
There are some people out here I still remember from the early days when I used to be on b4.
Bils .... try cutting down the amount of droop on your front...... also try a little more rear toe. :-)
Good tohear the G4 is still alive and kicking !!
Anthony
How are we all?
There are some people out here I still remember from the early days when I used to be on b4.
Bils .... try cutting down the amount of droop on your front...... also try a little more rear toe. :-)
Good tohear the G4 is still alive and kicking !!
Anthony
02-06-2010, 04:55 AM
Harry try a lighter rear diff oil and also remove some shims off the rear camber link so the arms are angled, also try stiffer front swaybar
02-06-2010, 07:20 AM
02-06-2010, 08:09 AM
I cant solve the loose tail end on my G4s... Pretty much all the Pre 08 G4 series I have feel the same.
So without posting the specifics, anyone care to throw ideas into the wind to save me writing a list of things Ive tried and failed.
What I can say, is I haven't explored Diffs intensively, nor tried much in roll centres and weight distribution. Sway blades are flat, tried soft, hard, suspension oils and springs, standing up, laying down, more camber, less camber, heavier diff oil, perhaps not light...
It snaps out of corner exits under power, behaves well into them.
h
So without posting the specifics, anyone care to throw ideas into the wind to save me writing a list of things Ive tried and failed.
What I can say, is I haven't explored Diffs intensively, nor tried much in roll centres and weight distribution. Sway blades are flat, tried soft, hard, suspension oils and springs, standing up, laying down, more camber, less camber, heavier diff oil, perhaps not light...
It snaps out of corner exits under power, behaves well into them.
h
Hope it helps
AFM
[B]OVERSTEERING G4 B]
...." Initial impression of the car was that it had way too much steering and it constantly unsettled the rear end which resulted in a car which was unpredictable... Was told by many to try lighter rear diff oils and lighter rear springs to settle the rear but this resulted in sluggish car.
The only good point I had about the car was its ease to drive, much planted feel and forgiveness to sloppy driving... but overall the car was not as competitive as my previous X-Ray’s and Kysoho’s in terms of lap timings...
However, I did not give up on the car and analyzed the issues I had with the car which were basically the way too fast turn-in unsettling my rear... I also wish to run a stiffer rear end with a heavier diff without it kicking out of corners for the added punch.
Decided to lower the front roll center to deaden the steering and also lower the rear roll center for more rear grip... now the car understeers more and works like a charm.... I am clocking similar timings as before...
So in short, try the roll centers before giving up on any car... must say this car is really nice to drive. "
Team Magic G4 Steering Setup
... "about the G4 handling issues in regards to too much steering / loose rear grip.
The reason why this happens is that the suspension design allow the suspension arms to remain consistent over their range of travel. This gives the front tires to grip much better. As a result the slip angle is greatly reduced.
Slip angle is the difference between the direction that the front tire is pointed in a turn and the actual relative chassis motion. As an example your tires may be turned 30 degrees but your car is only turning at 15 degrees. This would be a 50% slip angle.
With the G4's suspension design, the slip angle is GREATLY reduced. I don’t have the equipment to actually measure the exact number, but on my transmitter I reduced my steering travel from 92% to 64%. So you may be asking, “If the suspension is so great why does the rear end snap around Unless I change to harder tires in the front”?
The rear grip problem is a result of “relative servo speed”. I’ll exaggerate a little in this explanation. If you cut the steering servo travel in half and don’t change anything else to achieve the same result, you effectively double the servo speed.
When you dialed out the steering travel in your transmitter you reduced the total travel so it takes the servo less time to get to the end point. If you still turn the wheel on the transmitter like you were when the servo was going farther, then the front wheels change direction so fast that they are “shocking” the suspension loose on turn-in.
What makes this so drastic is that the reason for the reduced servo travel is that you have so much more grip from the tires because they are not sliding as much.
The cure for this is really simple. When you dial out steering you also need to slow down the steering servo speed setting on your transmitter or slow down the rotation of the wheel on the transmitter. The latter is the overall better solution since driving smoother is the way to go. In testing, every time we slowed down the servo speed we were able to use the softer fronts without losing the rear grip....."
02-06-2010, 08:33 AM
AFM is still around then......
Helpful, knowledgable and informative as ever. Good stuff afm. How have you been?
02-06-2010, 03:44 PM
Slip makes sense.
Hi there, being a long time G4 owner and past dealer, I happen to have two past posts from people that had same problem you are having, and should solve it.
Hope it helps
AFM
[B]OVERSTEERING G4 B]
...." Initial impression of the car was that it had way too much steering and it constantly unsettled the rear end which resulted in a car which was unpredictable... Was told by many to try lighter rear diff oils and lighter rear springs to settle the rear but this resulted in sluggish car.
The only good point I had about the car was its ease to drive, much planted feel and forgiveness to sloppy driving... but overall the car was not as competitive as my previous X-Ray’s and Kysoho’s in terms of lap timings...
However, I did not give up on the car and analyzed the issues I had with the car which were basically the way too fast turn-in unsettling my rear... I also wish to run a stiffer rear end with a heavier diff without it kicking out of corners for the added punch.
Decided to lower the front roll center to deaden the steering and also lower the rear roll center for more rear grip... now the car understeers more and works like a charm.... I am clocking similar timings as before...
So in short, try the roll centers before giving up on any car... must say this car is really nice to drive. "
Team Magic G4 Steering Setup
... "about the G4 handling issues in regards to too much steering / loose rear grip.
The reason why this happens is that the suspension design allow the suspension arms to remain consistent over their range of travel. This gives the front tires to grip much better. As a result the slip angle is greatly reduced.
Slip angle is the difference between the direction that the front tire is pointed in a turn and the actual relative chassis motion. As an example your tires may be turned 30 degrees but your car is only turning at 15 degrees. This would be a 50% slip angle.
With the G4's suspension design, the slip angle is GREATLY reduced. I don’t have the equipment to actually measure the exact number, but on my transmitter I reduced my steering travel from 92% to 64%. So you may be asking, “If the suspension is so great why does the rear end snap around Unless I change to harder tires in the front”?
The rear grip problem is a result of “relative servo speed”. I’ll exaggerate a little in this explanation. If you cut the steering servo travel in half and don’t change anything else to achieve the same result, you effectively double the servo speed.
When you dialed out the steering travel in your transmitter you reduced the total travel so it takes the servo less time to get to the end point. If you still turn the wheel on the transmitter like you were when the servo was going farther, then the front wheels change direction so fast that they are “shocking” the suspension loose on turn-in.
What makes this so drastic is that the reason for the reduced servo travel is that you have so much more grip from the tires because they are not sliding as much.
The cure for this is really simple. When you dial out steering you also need to slow down the steering servo speed setting on your transmitter or slow down the rotation of the wheel on the transmitter. The latter is the overall better solution since driving smoother is the way to go. In testing, every time we slowed down the servo speed we were able to use the softer fronts without losing the rear grip....."
Hope it helps
AFM
[B]OVERSTEERING G4 B]
...." Initial impression of the car was that it had way too much steering and it constantly unsettled the rear end which resulted in a car which was unpredictable... Was told by many to try lighter rear diff oils and lighter rear springs to settle the rear but this resulted in sluggish car.
The only good point I had about the car was its ease to drive, much planted feel and forgiveness to sloppy driving... but overall the car was not as competitive as my previous X-Ray’s and Kysoho’s in terms of lap timings...
However, I did not give up on the car and analyzed the issues I had with the car which were basically the way too fast turn-in unsettling my rear... I also wish to run a stiffer rear end with a heavier diff without it kicking out of corners for the added punch.
Decided to lower the front roll center to deaden the steering and also lower the rear roll center for more rear grip... now the car understeers more and works like a charm.... I am clocking similar timings as before...
So in short, try the roll centers before giving up on any car... must say this car is really nice to drive. "
Team Magic G4 Steering Setup
... "about the G4 handling issues in regards to too much steering / loose rear grip.
The reason why this happens is that the suspension design allow the suspension arms to remain consistent over their range of travel. This gives the front tires to grip much better. As a result the slip angle is greatly reduced.
Slip angle is the difference between the direction that the front tire is pointed in a turn and the actual relative chassis motion. As an example your tires may be turned 30 degrees but your car is only turning at 15 degrees. This would be a 50% slip angle.
With the G4's suspension design, the slip angle is GREATLY reduced. I don’t have the equipment to actually measure the exact number, but on my transmitter I reduced my steering travel from 92% to 64%. So you may be asking, “If the suspension is so great why does the rear end snap around Unless I change to harder tires in the front”?
The rear grip problem is a result of “relative servo speed”. I’ll exaggerate a little in this explanation. If you cut the steering servo travel in half and don’t change anything else to achieve the same result, you effectively double the servo speed.
When you dialed out the steering travel in your transmitter you reduced the total travel so it takes the servo less time to get to the end point. If you still turn the wheel on the transmitter like you were when the servo was going farther, then the front wheels change direction so fast that they are “shocking” the suspension loose on turn-in.
What makes this so drastic is that the reason for the reduced servo travel is that you have so much more grip from the tires because they are not sliding as much.
The cure for this is really simple. When you dial out steering you also need to slow down the steering servo speed setting on your transmitter or slow down the rotation of the wheel on the transmitter. The latter is the overall better solution since driving smoother is the way to go. In testing, every time we slowed down the servo speed we were able to use the softer fronts without losing the rear grip....."
Now this is an interesting concept. One that I too noticed but didnt address or analyse and had better results on tracks like Moorebank where there were fluid corners wide raduis corners and could tone down the steering. It makes sense as it kicks out as you are coming off the steering and about to power on.
Have a lot of ammo to tackle this now.. this seems most like the cause of our problem....
Thanks to all.
02-06-2010, 03:53 PM
So in short, try the roll centers before giving up on any car... must say this car is really nice to drive. "
You can also combat this to an extent : try using the rear holes on the steering arms, more ackerman angle ( greater distance between balls on steering link ) or better still , source some 2deg ft uprights (std ) from a VoneR / RR , FW05 or VoneS 2 - if you can't get them , shoot me an email, I have some.
LS
02-06-2010, 05:58 PM
TM drivers are the most helpful ppl...
And Harry, there in lies the issue, the rear roll centre is too high on your car and is not adjustable - unless you get the WC kit.
You can also combat this to an extent : try using the rear holes on the steering arms, more ackerman angle ( greater distance between balls on steering link ) or better still , source some 2deg ft uprights (std ) from a VoneR / RR , FW05 or VoneS 2 - if you can't get them , shoot me an email, I have some.
LS
You can also combat this to an extent : try using the rear holes on the steering arms, more ackerman angle ( greater distance between balls on steering link ) or better still , source some 2deg ft uprights (std ) from a VoneR / RR , FW05 or VoneS 2 - if you can't get them , shoot me an email, I have some.
LS
When we finally get thru this rainy day's RC maintenace (we are spread through to kitchen table as well now). Guy's Offroad Losi EP diff.. E4 Wiring and cleanup... Ill clean the car, take pictures with setup system and give everybody a look. Im not giving up on this car, if I can get a good handle on a G4 I think it's the best learning experience. I dont think have a massive rear diff is helping matters either, hence worried about weight distribution.
And Luis, Im running 42's all round to ensure I expose handling probs, I refuse to drop tyre shore to mask them.
Back the E4...
h
PS:.. Found a set of drill bits at Jaycar 0.6 - 1.6mm for 12.95 AUD (great value) will work on my shock tests even more.
02-07-2010, 11:27 AM
Hi there mate...yeap...still kicking and having fun with my TM's....we have a big race these end of feb......Paolo Morganti and other top dogs from around South America will be here.....we will try not get overlaped to many times...jajajajaja
AFM
02-07-2010, 05:07 PM
Pics...
02-07-2010, 05:09 PM
Last of set..
Any pointers would be appreciated.
02-14-2010, 10:09 AM
Tech Initiate
Discontinued Gears
double post
Last edited by OutlawIGT2; 02-14-2010 at 10:13 AM. Reason: double post
02-14-2010, 10:11 AM
Tech Initiate
Discontinued Gears
Went to order 46/47 tooth spurs from Wolfhobbies and both are discontinued. Replaced with Duro 2 speed gears which you need a new housing and shoes to run. The new gears must be the same pitch, as the 2nd gears 51/52 didn't change. Anyone know the reason for this $30 hit. My old spur gears were fine. Sounds like TM is forcing small changes to the old RS to nickel and dime me to death.
http://www.wolfhobbies.com/search.cgi?keywords=502282
http://www.wolfhobbies.com/search.cgi?keywords=502284
http://www.wolfhobbies.com/search.cgi?keywords=502282
http://www.wolfhobbies.com/search.cgi?keywords=502284