2013 Byron On-Road World Challenge
03-20-2013, 08:01 PM
#46
Tech Adept
Yes Juan the rules are the same except for the no kickup, which is allowed this year.
03-21-2013, 06:55 AM
#48
There you have it folks. The "no kick-up" rule has been eliminated so Team C cars are now legal. There hasn't been a cap on engine cost but the rule is offroad engines only. Rallygame engines are illegal. The rules for the 2013 Byron's Challenge for GT are pretty clear as far as what is expected from each participant equipment-wise. Now, who is going to show up and put the rubber to the asphalt?!?!?
03-21-2013, 07:00 AM
#49
1/8 GT Class
Chassis : Any 1/8 scale buggy based shaft driven nitro powered car. Any off-road conversion is OK.
Body : Any commercially available GT style body.
1. Wings and spoilers can be used if they are the original with the body and cut on the factory lines. Rear of the bodies should maintain tail lamps and can not be completely cut out. Engine must be under body.
Tires : Any commercially available rubber (No foam based tires allowed) GT style tires are OK.
1.Any insert is OK.
2.All tires must fit under the body. (No addition of wheel flares)
3.Wide rear tires will be allowed.
Engine : Any .28 or smaller displacement offroad engine (no Rallygame engines allowed)
Fuel tank: 150cc max.
Pipes : Any tuned pipe is OK.
No electronics may be added to aid in vehicle stability.
If you have any specific question about Gt rules just ask.
So, for those keeping score, here are the rules again, minus the chassis must have kick-up provision that rcmikel has eliminated (see his post). Added to this is the provision, per rcmikel, stating no Rallygame engines allowed. Now, lets get ready to rumble in June!!!
Chassis : Any 1/8 scale buggy based shaft driven nitro powered car. Any off-road conversion is OK.
Body : Any commercially available GT style body.
1. Wings and spoilers can be used if they are the original with the body and cut on the factory lines. Rear of the bodies should maintain tail lamps and can not be completely cut out. Engine must be under body.
Tires : Any commercially available rubber (No foam based tires allowed) GT style tires are OK.
1.Any insert is OK.
2.All tires must fit under the body. (No addition of wheel flares)
3.Wide rear tires will be allowed.
Engine : Any .28 or smaller displacement offroad engine (no Rallygame engines allowed)
Fuel tank: 150cc max.
Pipes : Any tuned pipe is OK.
No electronics may be added to aid in vehicle stability.
If you have any specific question about Gt rules just ask.
So, for those keeping score, here are the rules again, minus the chassis must have kick-up provision that rcmikel has eliminated (see his post). Added to this is the provision, per rcmikel, stating no Rallygame engines allowed. Now, lets get ready to rumble in June!!!
03-21-2013, 07:39 AM
#51
It gets old when you have to buy or change engines for every race you go to. 200, 280, open, off-road , limit ports, pull start. It was submitted to Roar for open .21 to .28 in the GT class because high port on-road engines don't work well in these heavy cars, and most races have been won by lower port cheaper engines. This engine debate has gone on for years now in this class. C'mon Roar, wake up. OPEN .21 to .28 should be in stone by now.
+1, I am new to this class I purchased an engine to be competitive at the homestead event which was a Kangaroo, That event and every other Major event this year was /is open engine so in order for me to run this event i will have to purchase and offroad engine which basically means its only for one event. SO just to be clear, its ok to run a modified offroad engine like the Maxy cinco? What determines on "offroad " engine, GO engines makes a 7port offroad engine! seems silly to me to restrict engines but at the same time allow modified off road engines? You see where this is going? Offroad is a really general statement and would need to be clarifyied further. If i have to buy another engine best believe it will be modified!! As spooky stated, these cars are heavy, a low torque 9pt engine really doesnt work all that well with these cars and the clutches cant be adjusted enough to make them strong on the infield. And we all know the straight speed really means nothing.
There are alot of newcomers to this class (especially from Texas) and 90% of us have onroad 7ports as they seem to have the best balance between torque and speed. It will cost me about 700.00 to get to this event, having to spend another 300 for a 1 time engine is a moot point especially when every other event has no engine limits and i would nt run that engine nor will any of the big hitters at any other event. On the other hand if you just go open engine, you will get more entries and zero complaints (nobody complains at Homestead or the SWCS). The top drivers will remain the top drivers regardless of what engine restriction is put in place so whats the difference?
I for one need very specific details on what an offroad engine really is. What are the modification limitations if at all (and be prepared for the MAxy Cinco onslaught to follow!!)
Port limit
Bore and Stroke limit
etc etc
Seems like it would be much simpler to just say "open engine", class is evolving and so should the rules!
You have nothing to lose by going open engine, you will gain entries .motor restrictions will restrict entries
Last edited by MantisWorx; 03-21-2013 at 08:42 AM.
03-21-2013, 08:50 AM
#53
Marcus your right I guess I was saying the same thing but as long as you Texas guys are going I will be there also.Had a good time with you guys in Homestead and good company and knowledgeable racers make a great event. I got a Maxy Cinco to try out recently and it looks good in my car ( its red
) I got some time to put it thru its paces and figure out the gearing so I should be prepared. Word on the street is a 7 port is in the mix from Maxy so Ill be looking for that also
. That Team C car will be ready and I hope alot of guys make the trip from Texas and the East Coast. This might be a Dont Miss GT event. I hope ROAR is watching.
) I got some time to put it thru its paces and figure out the gearing so I should be prepared. Word on the street is a 7 port is in the mix from Maxy so Ill be looking for that also. That Team C car will be ready and I hope alot of guys make the trip from Texas and the East Coast. This might be a Dont Miss GT event. I hope ROAR is watching.
03-21-2013, 08:57 AM
#54
+1, I am new to this class I purchased an engine to be competitive at the homestead event which was a Kangaroo, That event and every other Major event this year was /is open engine so in order for me to run this event i will have to purchase and offroad engine which basically means its only for one event. SO just to be clear, its ok to run a modified offroad engine like the Maxy cinco? What determines on "offroad " engine, GO engines makes a 7port offroad engine! seems silly to me to restrict engines but at the same time allow modified off road engines? You see where this is going? Offroad is a really general statement and would need to be clarifyied further. If i have to buy another engine best believe it will be modified!! As spooky stated, these cars are heavy, a low torque 9pt engine really doesnt work all that well with these cars and the clutches cant be adjusted enough to make them strong on the infield. And we all know the straight speed really means nothing.
There are alot of newcomers to this class (especially from Texas) and 90% of us have onroad 7ports as they seem to have the best balance between torque and speed. It will cost me about 700.00 to get to this event, having to spend another 300 for a 1 time engine is a moot point especially when every other event has no engine limits and i would nt run that engine nor will any of the big hitters at any other event. On the other hand if you just go open engine, you will get more entries and zero complaints (nobody complains at Homestead or the SWCS). The top drivers will remain the top drivers regardless of what engine restriction is put in place so whats the difference?
I for one need very specific details on what an offroad engine really is. What are the modification limitations if at all (and be prepared for the MAxy Cinco onslaught to follow!!)
Port limit
Bore and Stroke limit
etc etc
Seems like it would be much simpler to just say "open engine", class is evolving and so should the rules!
You have nothing to lose by going open engine, you will gain entries .motor restrictions will restrict entries
There are alot of newcomers to this class (especially from Texas) and 90% of us have onroad 7ports as they seem to have the best balance between torque and speed. It will cost me about 700.00 to get to this event, having to spend another 300 for a 1 time engine is a moot point especially when every other event has no engine limits and i would nt run that engine nor will any of the big hitters at any other event. On the other hand if you just go open engine, you will get more entries and zero complaints (nobody complains at Homestead or the SWCS). The top drivers will remain the top drivers regardless of what engine restriction is put in place so whats the difference?
I for one need very specific details on what an offroad engine really is. What are the modification limitations if at all (and be prepared for the MAxy Cinco onslaught to follow!!)
Port limit
Bore and Stroke limit
etc etc
Seems like it would be much simpler to just say "open engine", class is evolving and so should the rules!
You have nothing to lose by going open engine, you will gain entries .motor restrictions will restrict entries
Every engine mfr listed their engine ON ROAD and OFF ROAD...for example, Nova Rossi....and I think by looking at the engine head, it can be easy to determine what type of engine that we are running. Also, I think (not always true)...OFF ROAD engine's carburetor are mainly plastic material, instead of the ON ROAD type engine that used the aluminum....
To answer your question, yes, you can use the most expensive OFF ROAD base engine that you can purchase and race...but just cannot be ON ROAD engine, even it is an $100 pull start on road engine.
Of course, you can always convert an ON ROAD engine to look like the off road engine by some parts like carb and engine head, but if I really want to race the GT class....an GOOD and Race-able off road engine like NOVA ROSSI, WERKS and OS...are under $300. In my opinion...that is the CHEAPEST form of NITRO engine that I can find....(when comparing to 1/10th TC and 1/8th OPEN class).....and these engine, is MORE THEN ENOUGH to race at the A-main...........
I agreed on what you believing...and thats why I wish there is a PRICE CAP on engines...for example, $250 USD. There are plenty of GOOD quality off road engine that can be used for GT for $250...but to get some good ON ROAD engine for $250, is harder...that eliminated the ON ROAD engine class.....pretty easy and straight forward to me.
These GT BRICK are so heavy and short that I don't see some high end ON ROAD engine will make it a day and night different......not to mention, you can sell the same engine after this race and get 1/2 of the money back. I myself buying and selling the whole kit each year JUST to race this event...I am consider this as a "LEASE" racing program...you have to pay to PLAY. No matter what you are dealing with...
Lets not forget WHERE is the GT came from....it came from the OFF ROAD BUGGY car. And I think these rule are set there just TRYING to not going to far from the original idea.........I see there are already some GT2 spec there (Longer wheel base) and that is already moving away from the BUGGY BASE concept, already removed the "Front KICK UP" design..........next thing I see is 3 belts transmission, then ON ROAD engine, then FOAM tires, Lola inspired body.........and somehow, it ended up looking like the OPEN 1/8th car....
03-21-2013, 09:37 AM
#56
If there are no rule....there should not be any racing. Can I convert a Serpent 966 using GT tires and race this class now..?
Every engine mfr listed their engine ON ROAD and OFF ROAD...for example, Nova Rossi....and I think by looking at the engine head, it can be easy to determine what type of engine that we are running. Also, I think (not always true)...OFF ROAD engine's carburetor are mainly plastic material, instead of the ON ROAD type engine that used the aluminum....
To answer your question, yes, you can use the most expensive OFF ROAD base engine that you can purchase and race...but just cannot be ON ROAD engine, even it is an $100 pull start on road engine.
Of course, you can always convert an ON ROAD engine to look like the off road engine by some parts like carb and engine head, but if I really want to race the GT class....an GOOD and Race-able off road engine like NOVA ROSSI, WERKS and OS...are under $300. In my opinion...that is the CHEAPEST form of NITRO engine that I can find....(when comparing to 1/10th TC and 1/8th OPEN class).....and these engine, is MORE THEN ENOUGH to race at the A-main...........
I agreed on what you believing...and thats why I wish there is a PRICE CAP on engines...for example, $250 USD. There are plenty of GOOD quality off road engine that can be used for GT for $250...but to get some good ON ROAD engine for $250, is harder...that eliminated the ON ROAD engine class.....pretty easy and straight forward to me.
These GT BRICK are so heavy and short that I don't see some high end ON ROAD engine will make it a day and night different......not to mention, you can sell the same engine after this race and get 1/2 of the money back. I myself buying and selling the whole kit each year JUST to race this event...I am consider this as a "LEASE" racing program...you have to pay to PLAY. No matter what you are dealing with...
Lets not forget WHERE is the GT came from....it came from the OFF ROAD BUGGY car. And I think these rule are set there just TRYING to not going to far from the original idea.........I see there are already some GT2 spec there (Longer wheel base) and that is already moving away from the BUGGY BASE concept, already removed the "Front KICK UP" design..........next thing I see is 3 belts transmission, then ON ROAD engine, then FOAM tires, Lola inspired body.........and somehow, it ended up looking like the OPEN 1/8th car....
Every engine mfr listed their engine ON ROAD and OFF ROAD...for example, Nova Rossi....and I think by looking at the engine head, it can be easy to determine what type of engine that we are running. Also, I think (not always true)...OFF ROAD engine's carburetor are mainly plastic material, instead of the ON ROAD type engine that used the aluminum....
To answer your question, yes, you can use the most expensive OFF ROAD base engine that you can purchase and race...but just cannot be ON ROAD engine, even it is an $100 pull start on road engine.
Of course, you can always convert an ON ROAD engine to look like the off road engine by some parts like carb and engine head, but if I really want to race the GT class....an GOOD and Race-able off road engine like NOVA ROSSI, WERKS and OS...are under $300. In my opinion...that is the CHEAPEST form of NITRO engine that I can find....(when comparing to 1/10th TC and 1/8th OPEN class).....and these engine, is MORE THEN ENOUGH to race at the A-main...........
I agreed on what you believing...and thats why I wish there is a PRICE CAP on engines...for example, $250 USD. There are plenty of GOOD quality off road engine that can be used for GT for $250...but to get some good ON ROAD engine for $250, is harder...that eliminated the ON ROAD engine class.....pretty easy and straight forward to me.
These GT BRICK are so heavy and short that I don't see some high end ON ROAD engine will make it a day and night different......not to mention, you can sell the same engine after this race and get 1/2 of the money back. I myself buying and selling the whole kit each year JUST to race this event...I am consider this as a "LEASE" racing program...you have to pay to PLAY. No matter what you are dealing with...
Lets not forget WHERE is the GT came from....it came from the OFF ROAD BUGGY car. And I think these rule are set there just TRYING to not going to far from the original idea.........I see there are already some GT2 spec there (Longer wheel base) and that is already moving away from the BUGGY BASE concept, already removed the "Front KICK UP" design..........next thing I see is 3 belts transmission, then ON ROAD engine, then FOAM tires, Lola inspired body.........and somehow, it ended up looking like the OPEN 1/8th car....
Nobody said no rules, just open motor with .21/.28 like all of the other events!This year as it looks right noe this is the only event that has this restriction, The Ipanema event has a seperate class for the restriction.
The nova basic sport 7pt is only 259.00 and Andy Lui has proven that its a very formidable engine. So if your believe that the high end engines do not make a difference (which i also believe) then why even bother with the restriction? If someone chooses to run an exotic engine that slows them down than let that be their problem?!!
There are no arguments about the chassis and what not, only the engine, which has been a constant battle since the beginning.
Granted i am only one person but here is my perspective on this event. My motivation went from HELL yeah I am ready to blow 700.00 for a race weekend in Chicago! To HMMMM now i have to spend 1000.00 to go to Chicago AND spend a weekend retuning my car and modifying another engine to just let it sit on the shelf after this one time event! If you think for a second that the top guns are running stock engines (on or off road) than you are greatly mistaken( and i am sure you are aware of this)!! Of course i could just show up with a box stock engine and get my doors blown off, but thats not going to happen! In the end what have you gained by this?
No one fast will have a stock engine.
Allowing modified offroad engines just opens up a Pandora's box. Where do you draw the line? and how to you police it?
IMO if you are going to have restrictions than you may as well designate a single spec engine and be done with it! But we all know the class would die in less than 6mths!
Here is an idea , and it would answer all of your questions! take a poll or vote and see what happens.See what the people want and go with it!
Open engine GT
Restriction GT
Seperate class
My vote is either open GT or seperate class.
As it stand right now I more than likely will not go which sucks because i really want to be there with all of my new friends but things are tight!!
03-21-2013, 09:45 AM
#57
I will probably drive it again. With the VW TDI, is only cost me $169.00 round trip for diesel (averaged almost 50mpg the entire trip). Between Sirius XM and CDs/downloaded music on flash card, I have more than enough music/entertainment to make the trip again.
03-21-2013, 10:07 AM
#58
The engine rule has been that way for GT at the Byron's race since GT was included. Rcmikel and his group had been running their GT cars under this rule since, I believe, 2007 without any difficulty (rcmikel can better fill you in on this). Last year, I finished 6th in the A-main using a year-old, non-modified Werks B5 (not the pro version) that cost me around $200.00. I wasn't far off the pace of the racers that finished in front of me, some using engines that were well over $400.00 (street price). Their engine rule has been successful for them for years so why try to fix what isn't broken.
Scott (Leisure Hours owner), Mike, and Bernie started one of the first, successful organized GT classes running in the state before many of us knew what GT cars were. These has been their basic rules since about 2007. Instead of lobbying, just abide by their rules if you are going to attend the Byron's Challenge this year.
Scott (Leisure Hours owner), Mike, and Bernie started one of the first, successful organized GT classes running in the state before many of us knew what GT cars were. These has been their basic rules since about 2007. Instead of lobbying, just abide by their rules if you are going to attend the Byron's Challenge this year.
03-21-2013, 10:17 AM
#59
The engine rule has been that way for GT at the Byron's race since GT was included. Rcmikel and his group had been running their GT cars under this rule since, I believe, 2007 without any difficulty (rcmikel can better fill you in on this). Last year, I finished 6th in the A-main using a year-old, non-modified Werks B5 (not the pro version) that cost me around $200.00. I wasn't far off the pace of the racers that finished in front of me, some using engines that were well over $400.00 (street price). Their engine rule has been successful for them for years so why try to fix what isn't broken.
Scott (Leisure Hours owner), Mike, and Bernie started one of the first, successful organized GT classes running in the state before many of us knew what GT cars were. These has been their basic rules since about 2007. Instead of lobbying, just abide by their rules if you are going to attend the Byron's Challenge this year.
Scott (Leisure Hours owner), Mike, and Bernie started one of the first, successful organized GT classes running in the state before many of us knew what GT cars were. These has been their basic rules since about 2007. Instead of lobbying, just abide by their rules if you are going to attend the Byron's Challenge this year.
No worries. I will pass on the trip this year and head to Cali instead on that weekend, You guys have fun! I was just trying to get everyone in GT on the same page!
BTW, Man, thats a looooooong drive! Homestead damn near killed me it was so long!
03-21-2013, 10:27 AM
#60