52LikesEuropean 2wd 1/8th pan car on-road Classic class
11-09-2009, 08:57 PM
#196
One thing that I would like to add to the rules mock up would be that the engines should be kept stock. Knowing racers, they will seek out every edge possble including engine mods. That might only encourage others to spend extra money to "keep up". Keep the rules simple and with little deviation, I hope, might lead to growth and longevity for this class. I have an RC 300 BD and will look into getting it together to go out and try soon.
So how do you keep it cheap? Ban the expensive engine parts. No ceramic bearings, no slugged cranks, flat top pistons and maybe a port limit and you have cheap motors. I would rather have to run a modded $200 motor than a stock $600 motor.
11-09-2009, 09:06 PM
#197
I agree with this in principal but in practice is more of a headache than it's worth. Why? Because what is a "stock" motor? Is a JP or Maxpower stock? It's not a stock Novarossi but it is a commercially available motor? We went through this with TC's. Originally they were "stock" only. So the modders just made their motors available through normal distributors and now their modded Nova's were "stock" Ritchie's or JP's or whatever. Why should I have to pay 150 extra dollars for a motor I could have bought cheaper and done the work myself? Why is it illegal for me to mod my own motor but not to mod 200 of them and sell under my own name? Try to ban such motors and people start throwing the word "lawsuit" around.
So how do you keep it cheap? Ban the expensive engine parts. No ceramic bearings, no slugged cranks, flat top pistons and maybe a port limit and you have cheap motors. I would rather have to run a modded $200 motor than a stock $600 motor.
So how do you keep it cheap? Ban the expensive engine parts. No ceramic bearings, no slugged cranks, flat top pistons and maybe a port limit and you have cheap motors. I would rather have to run a modded $200 motor than a stock $600 motor.
Are you sure you're ready to go through all this?
Maybe make a list of "approved" engines so you'll have a chance at keeping them close in performance & "end-user" cost. That's what we're trying to do with the GT Spec class these days; may help the pan cars too.
11-10-2009, 04:33 AM
#198
I agree with this in principal but in practice is more of a headache than it's worth. Why? Because what is a "stock" motor? Is a JP or Maxpower stock? It's not a stock Novarossi but it is a commercially available motor? We went through this with TC's. Originally they were "stock" only. So the modders just made their motors available through normal distributors and now their modded Nova's were "stock" Ritchie's or JP's or whatever. Why should I have to pay 150 extra dollars for a motor I could have bought cheaper and done the work myself? Why is it illegal for me to mod my own motor but not to mod 200 of them and sell under my own name? Try to ban such motors and people start throwing the word "lawsuit" around.
So how do you keep it cheap? Ban the expensive engine parts. No ceramic bearings, no slugged cranks, flat top pistons and maybe a port limit and you have cheap motors. I would rather have to run a modded $200 motor than a stock $600 motor.
So how do you keep it cheap? Ban the expensive engine parts. No ceramic bearings, no slugged cranks, flat top pistons and maybe a port limit and you have cheap motors. I would rather have to run a modded $200 motor than a stock $600 motor.
First of all, Welcome! As you and others have voiced their concerns about not letting this class get out of control and go the way of the sedan class. We have been discussing rather to have a "no mods" or not rule. I put together the first draft of a set of rules based on a collaboration of ideas hashed out on this thread. First, Our Mission statement says " To create and promote a simple economical class of racing with stable rules".
I agree with wingracer, We have limited the rules to "Flat top pistons, no
slug weighted cranks, max of 7 port sleeves and steel bearings". Most of the engines that meet these requirements are built by Novarossi (and rebranded Novas) and Siro. They are considered "budget engines". They have a street price of $149.95 to $244.00 compared to a street price for a Nova Flash 21 that sells for $650.00! I beleive if we limit the engines to the above criteria we will be ok. If things change as far as supply in the future, we may have to go to a approved engine list as some have mentioned on this thread.
Oh...the RC-300BD is a grat car!! Ran one for years.
Dale
11-10-2009, 05:52 AM
#199
11-10-2009, 08:48 AM
#200
I had a chance to speak with Michael Salven this past weekend at the "Gulf Coast Grandprix" here in Houston. He did confirm to me that yes indeed Serpent will develope a 1/8 scale 2wd Classic Car. This is a pic posted by Roelof of the Serpent Classic prototype seen at the Monaco EFRA race in October.
11-10-2009, 09:14 AM
#201
11-10-2009, 09:42 AM
#202
I was pitting with and racing with the crew from serpent in florida and I forgot to ask about this car...it was a busy weekend!
I will be back down in florida and pitting with the crew from serpent in December I will be sure to follow up any production possibility/import.
I will be back down in florida and pitting with the crew from serpent in December I will be sure to follow up any production possibility/import.
11-10-2009, 10:17 AM
#203
I had a chance to speak with Michael Salven this past weekend at the "Gulf Coast Grandprix" here in Houston. He did confirm to me that yes indeed Serpent will develope a 1/8 scale 2wd Classic Car. This is a pic posted by Roelof of the Serpent Classic prototype seen at the Monaco EFRA race in October.
11-10-2009, 10:27 AM
#204
I agree with wingracer, We have limited the rules to "Flat top pistons, no
slug weighted cranks, max of 7 port sleeves and steel bearings". Most of the engines that meet these requirements are built by Novarossi (and rebranded Novas) and Siro. They are considered "budget engines". They have a street price of $149.95 to $244.00 compared to a street price for a Nova Flash 21 that sells for $650.00! I beleive if we limit the engines to the above criteria we will be ok. If things change as far as supply in the future, we may have to go to a approved engine list as some have mentioned on this thread.
slug weighted cranks, max of 7 port sleeves and steel bearings". Most of the engines that meet these requirements are built by Novarossi (and rebranded Novas) and Siro. They are considered "budget engines". They have a street price of $149.95 to $244.00 compared to a street price for a Nova Flash 21 that sells for $650.00! I beleive if we limit the engines to the above criteria we will be ok. If things change as far as supply in the future, we may have to go to a approved engine list as some have mentioned on this thread.
Do not make rules about the engine if you can not control it or even inspect it. Let it control itself, the fasterst engines will make a 2wd car without suspension uncontrolable....
About the Serpent car, it was already showed at the Neurnberg Toyfair:
http://www.redrc.net/2009/02/toy-fai...nt/#more-15638
11-10-2009, 11:07 AM
#205
I agree but I am concerned that not everyone will see it that way. The first time someone wins with a Flash (through driver talent more than motor) everyone that races against him will feel like they have to have one.
11-10-2009, 11:38 AM
#206
So what?
At the GP in Monaco it was an old OPS engine taking the win above the MAX XL9 so it does not say an expensive engine will win... As mentioned before, the car with very poor setup possibillities is a great equalizer for the engines.
Take a N21-3T, rip everything out and place all internals of a MAX XL9. As far you do not open the engine it will look to you as a N21-3T except the performance.
Or else, I will take my N21-3T and copy al the timings of a MAX XL9 into it, pretty sure it will go almost as fast as a XL9. This is what I already have tried with succes.
How far will you control and inspect this? Beside that, it will not take long before Murnan and other tuners will provide engines within the rules....
And another issue... who will drive this?
I think the most drivers are the older people bringing back old memories, most of them are wise enough to choose the right engine.
At the GP in Monaco it was an old OPS engine taking the win above the MAX XL9 so it does not say an expensive engine will win... As mentioned before, the car with very poor setup possibillities is a great equalizer for the engines.
Take a N21-3T, rip everything out and place all internals of a MAX XL9. As far you do not open the engine it will look to you as a N21-3T except the performance.
Or else, I will take my N21-3T and copy al the timings of a MAX XL9 into it, pretty sure it will go almost as fast as a XL9. This is what I already have tried with succes.
How far will you control and inspect this? Beside that, it will not take long before Murnan and other tuners will provide engines within the rules....
And another issue... who will drive this?
I think the most drivers are the older people bringing back old memories, most of them are wise enough to choose the right engine.
11-10-2009, 11:53 AM
#207
True. Another nice thing about open motors is that I could run all my old, rebuilt and slow 1/8th open motors instead buying a new one.
I still kind of like the idea of no slugged cranks though. IMO it's a waste of money anyway.
I still kind of like the idea of no slugged cranks though. IMO it's a waste of money anyway.
11-10-2009, 01:06 PM
#208
One thing i can't seem to find is how you can adjust the ride height with the new 1/8 pancars. I downloaded the motonica p8c manual but i noticed there is nothing to adjust ride height or am i missing something? 
I drive pro10 and there you can adjust height by using strips under the front suspension and at the back with different egg shaped cams.
I drive pro10 and there you can adjust height by using strips under the front suspension and at the back with different egg shaped cams.
11-10-2009, 03:22 PM
#209
Tech Apprentice
Engine Mods
How about all mods be acceptable,BUT carb inlet is restricted to, say .125 or may be .200.
Better fuel economy, easier on motors and easier to tech.
No motor tear downs.
Downside? They are more difficult to tune.
Better fuel economy, easier on motors and easier to tech.
No motor tear downs.
Downside? They are more difficult to tune.
11-10-2009, 05:32 PM
#210
The response for this class has been pretty strong, and I have received a few emails from people interested so I might actually start stocking kits and parts starting next year.
As far as ride height goes, I think I read somewhere that the P8C has the ability to raise and lower the height, at least in the rear via bushings or spacers or something. Sooner or later we'll confirm that.
As far as ride height goes, I think I read somewhere that the P8C has the ability to raise and lower the height, at least in the rear via bushings or spacers or something. Sooner or later we'll confirm that.