Serpent 710
03-22-2004, 12:17 AM
#6571
Tech Initiate
Yeah, I know. This definitely needs more time, but I do have a wedding coming up and work is consuming me. Speaking of which, I'll be in the Netherlands next week (work, of course) and would love to visit Serpent. Anybody know where it's located?
03-22-2004, 12:18 AM
#6572
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Finally....First Driving Impressions
Originally posted by cyba888
Dont we feel like a kid again when our hands used to be dirty for days! 
Dont we feel like a kid again when our hands used to be dirty for days!
Problem is I'll still get my ear clipped when girlfriend finds dirt under my nails!!! 
03-22-2004, 12:19 AM
#6573
Originally posted by zaiguy
Yeah, I know. This definitely needs more time, but I do have a wedding coming up and work is consuming me. Speaking of which, I'll be in the Netherlands next week (work, of course) and would love to visit Serpent. Anybody know where it's located?
Yeah, I know. This definitely needs more time, but I do have a wedding coming up and work is consuming me. Speaking of which, I'll be in the Netherlands next week (work, of course) and would love to visit Serpent. Anybody know where it's located?
Maybe I should add a section to the FAQ?
03-22-2004, 12:39 AM
#6574
Originally posted by markp27
We need to give you tips on hiding cars from Wifey Maybe I should add a section to the FAQ?
We need to give you tips on hiding cars from Wifey
Maybe I should add a section to the FAQ?
yea...any update on yer FAQ thing...love the initialD section though...ahahahahha keep it up.
03-22-2004, 01:06 AM
#6575
Was at the track on Saturday knowing the fact there would be alot of people there practicing for Sundays big race. I saw a group of R40 guys flying their cars around the track. These guys are fast no doubt. I thought these guys were going to win on Sunday because of their skills and consistency. Last time a gang of LD3 guys won all top 3 
I believe these guys were factory LD3 drivers. There is only one local guy at the track that runs the 710 as far as I know. I found out he won 1st place last night I think this was his first time winning 1st with his 710. Glad to see that the 710 beat the other cars. 
BTW he still holds the record for the fastest lap for 1/10th. His laptimes are 14 seconds, most 1/8th do 14's as well the last time I looked at the lap timer screen. This guy is friendly when I talked to him so next time I go im going to setup my car like his. He leaves his car at the shop so I can look at it anytime I want. This should save me alot of time on setting up the car at this track. 
I believe these guys were factory LD3 drivers. There is only one local guy at the track that runs the 710 as far as I know. I found out he won 1st place last night I think this was his first time winning 1st with his 710. Glad to see that the 710 beat the other cars. BTW he still holds the record for the fastest lap for 1/10th. His laptimes are 14 seconds, most 1/8th do 14's as well the last time I looked at the lap timer screen. This guy is friendly when I talked to him so next time I go im going to setup my car like his. He leaves his car at the shop so I can look at it anytime I want. This should save me alot of time on setting up the car at this track.
03-22-2004, 01:42 AM
#6576
Dino,
How did you do on Sunday?
How did you do on Sunday?
03-22-2004, 01:58 AM
#6577
Originally posted by jasoncsc
Dear Julius,
Well, my experience would come out with a quite long story, but....here's my short version view....
I believe simple is better. The 710 offers many advanced setup option like the changing of roll centers and the DRS. These are not available in other makes of cars as I observed. While Serpent, while designing the 710, wanted to give more options to the drivers to better dial in their cars according to their needs, but this would become a "double edged sword".
Like my experience, with the stock recommend setup, my car was understeer going into a turn, but slide badly exiting one. I am asking peole what could be changed and needless to say a lot of different opinions comes to me. I then try changing basic settings, the problem persists and even sometimes worst, then I go about to changing the roll centers and DRS. I travelled to far and in some cases made things quite worst. Then I went back to a version that based on the basic setting with a little change. Still the car does not drive as I want it to be, but at least its near "the ballpark".
Compared that to the FW05 that I helped my friends assemble and setup. With the standard setting, while it is not a "dream" to drive" it more or less falls into the ballpark.
Comparing the drive feeling of the "dialed in" 710 and the FW, I feel the FW drives better. I am not trying to say that X brand is better than Y brand here, but to me the 710 gives me too much option to setup and to even "think about".
Julius, I see you are living in Netherlands, and may even be involved with Serpent. If so, I would recommend you to take off your "Serpent hat", and go to various car tracks and listen to drivers, not the top guys who frequent the podium, but the ones on the side. Especially listen to those who once driven Serpent and changed to other brands, ask them why and their experience after changing. I always hear from local people that "Serpent cars are not easy to drive and setup, and it would take a certain amount of time and patient to get it setup right". I also hear from some local top Serpent guys who said "Serpent cars are for advanced users only who knows exactly what they want and knows how to factor them into setting up their cars". The second statement, while contains more pride, if Serpent cherish that then frankly speaking Serpent is gradually loosing market to others.
I congradulate very much about Serpent's good support, especially their mytsn. However, take a different view about this...other makers who does not have such good support still sells very good, why? What if they would come up with their own version of mytsn? What could Serpent done more to protect their market share?
Once again, the above are my personal opinion and no flames intended. I am not a "Serpent basher", but in fact a "Serpent lover" that wants to see Serpent product succeed, because in my past experience I liked Serpent products very much, and want to see it continue this saga. I hope that Serpent is not some company that only "listen to things that charms their ears"....
Dear Julius,
Well, my experience would come out with a quite long story, but....here's my short version view....
I believe simple is better. The 710 offers many advanced setup option like the changing of roll centers and the DRS. These are not available in other makes of cars as I observed. While Serpent, while designing the 710, wanted to give more options to the drivers to better dial in their cars according to their needs, but this would become a "double edged sword".
Like my experience, with the stock recommend setup, my car was understeer going into a turn, but slide badly exiting one. I am asking peole what could be changed and needless to say a lot of different opinions comes to me. I then try changing basic settings, the problem persists and even sometimes worst, then I go about to changing the roll centers and DRS. I travelled to far and in some cases made things quite worst. Then I went back to a version that based on the basic setting with a little change. Still the car does not drive as I want it to be, but at least its near "the ballpark".
Compared that to the FW05 that I helped my friends assemble and setup. With the standard setting, while it is not a "dream" to drive" it more or less falls into the ballpark.
Comparing the drive feeling of the "dialed in" 710 and the FW, I feel the FW drives better. I am not trying to say that X brand is better than Y brand here, but to me the 710 gives me too much option to setup and to even "think about".
Julius, I see you are living in Netherlands, and may even be involved with Serpent. If so, I would recommend you to take off your "Serpent hat", and go to various car tracks and listen to drivers, not the top guys who frequent the podium, but the ones on the side. Especially listen to those who once driven Serpent and changed to other brands, ask them why and their experience after changing. I always hear from local people that "Serpent cars are not easy to drive and setup, and it would take a certain amount of time and patient to get it setup right". I also hear from some local top Serpent guys who said "Serpent cars are for advanced users only who knows exactly what they want and knows how to factor them into setting up their cars". The second statement, while contains more pride, if Serpent cherish that then frankly speaking Serpent is gradually loosing market to others.
I congradulate very much about Serpent's good support, especially their mytsn. However, take a different view about this...other makers who does not have such good support still sells very good, why? What if they would come up with their own version of mytsn? What could Serpent done more to protect their market share?
Once again, the above are my personal opinion and no flames intended. I am not a "Serpent basher", but in fact a "Serpent lover" that wants to see Serpent product succeed, because in my past experience I liked Serpent products very much, and want to see it continue this saga. I hope that Serpent is not some company that only "listen to things that charms their ears"....
Strange as this may seem I agree simple is better. This was one of the design goals for the 710. But simple doesn't nescessarily mean less tuning options. It means the car should not overreact to change, have a wide sweetspot and have a good explanation of what does what (which is where the tuning book comes in).
I think part of your post applies well to our previous cars, which were difficult to setup and would require constant change to keep up with track conditions. I do believe (call it serpent hat if you like
) that the 710 does not have that problem. I do listen to other drivers that have changed to other cars and they did give similar statements to yours: difficult to build, setup etc. Most of them here have now changed back to Serpent and are very satisfied. Some still run other cars and are happy with them.I'll not proclaim the 710 is the best car ever. Most likely at any track the best car is the one that:
- Has a good driver mechanic that is willing to help others. That way a setup that works on that track is available to everyone.
- Has good shop support
Over here in Holland there are many knowlegable people that race Serpent and help one another = good support = everybody happy. One of them switched this year to a Schumacher R12. He had to find out all by himself and although he's a knowlegable guy in the end got frustrated and swithed to a 710.
Jasonsc, I thank you for giving your opinion and wish you well with your new car.
03-22-2004, 02:09 AM
#6578
Julius, well said.
03-22-2004, 02:19 AM
#6580
You're right on the money sparsky.
03-22-2004, 02:21 AM
#6582
Originally posted by sparksy
Julius,
Some people are just not Serpent people. No matter how good the car can be in certain circumstances and in the right hands, they just cant get them to work for them. And then there are those that wont try it at all.
Julius,
Some people are just not Serpent people. No matter how good the car can be in certain circumstances and in the right hands, they just cant get them to work for them. And then there are those that wont try it at all.
Most people are in this for enjoyment. So naturally you go with what gives most enjoyment. Most cars nowadays are good. Each have their particular strong and weak points. In the end it's all about what combo works best.
If you have lots of drivers doing well with a particular car, it's hard to keep inventing all yourself and switching to something you've seen to work is often the easier solution. If that is a way to enjoy the hobby more, all the better.
03-22-2004, 02:29 AM
#6583
Purple springs?
Ummm.