Tornado fuel, need advice
#151
#152
Not exactly. I am saying the only Motor I have had "break" was the one and only time I used Tornado. This is with 10 years of racing and NEVER "breaking" an engine once. I am extremely carefull and cautious with my engines. Anyway, It was a new RB C6 with way less then a gallon through it that died. More like half a gallon plus breakin. At the event this happen, there were a number of guys that broke some high dollar engines...Murnan Modded, Nova's and RB's. They were all using Tornado. My engine had never reached a temp above 220F at this race (However this is not my ONLY sence of tuning a motor by temp alone). It died in the middle of the straight away. After tearing the engine apart, It looked as though it was a lack of lubrication. Everything was still intact (no cracked parts or parts failure) but the rod bushings were very sloppy and the piston and sleeve had excessive deep scratches.
However, for me to solely blame it on the fuel would not be a fair assesment to Tornado, because it might have just been coincidence. Not sure. Since this was my first motor to ever break, I don't have much experience in assessing the problem. So the fuel may or may not have contributed to mine and the other racers engines to break. But hearing all the tuning issues and broken engines at the worlds this weekend, it could be a possibility. Like a bad batch possibly? Just a thought. But I know I will never use this fuel again just because of my personal experience.
However, for me to solely blame it on the fuel would not be a fair assesment to Tornado, because it might have just been coincidence. Not sure. Since this was my first motor to ever break, I don't have much experience in assessing the problem. So the fuel may or may not have contributed to mine and the other racers engines to break. But hearing all the tuning issues and broken engines at the worlds this weekend, it could be a possibility. Like a bad batch possibly? Just a thought. But I know I will never use this fuel again just because of my personal experience.
#153
did you run in the engine with another fuel
then run it with tornado.
then run it with tornado.
#155
SAM DUDE! Hows my California bro doing? Dude, for you being from another country, you know our uh um.. "English" Language BETTER then us Americans!! I thought I was the only one to catch everyone's spelling. I think you just like to point it out and have fun with it.
#156
The only "wierd" thing with this fuel is it makes your parts turn a little blue inside the engine. But this has no effect on the parts. Also, it doesn't say, but I think it uses a 12% castor/synthetic oil blend. But don't quote me on that. I also mention that I live in Colorado because of our altitude, which is around 5000 ft above sea level. So I am use to having to retune my engines when I travel. This is obviously the very first thing I do. And this race was at the 301 raceway in Maryland which I believe is pretty much sea level or maybe 500 ft. Just a guess.
And yes, I did shim my head clearence apropriately for the altitude and Nitro percentage I ran. I think I ran either 20 or 25% tornado. This was the ONLY fuel available for this race at the track.
The other thing to note about the engine that died, was the top of the piston was pitted very severly. This has me a bit stumped. It was fine after the qualifiers, as the engine died during the main. So maybe I did have a shimming issue, but I honestly don't think that was it. I would have to get that engine and measure the shims. I believe I used two silver (thick) and two copper (thin). I know that probably doesn't mean anything to you, but since I always run RB, this is how I have learned to do it. I don't know the "actuall" head clearence including the head button and all. But I have all the parts in a bag still, because I someday want to understand what happen to that engine. I'm still guessing it was the fuel.
So any ideas there Wally bro? Thanks for taking the time here. OH yea, SAM...if you read this again, maybe you can shed some light here since you were pitting for me when this happened. This was the Capital Classic race in Maryland.
#157
Tech Fanatic
Serpent d,
I'am going to forward your experience on over to Tornado and Novarossi.
They will definitely have an answer for you on this.
Thank you and sorry for your luck.
I'am going to forward your experience on over to Tornado and Novarossi.
They will definitely have an answer for you on this.
Thank you and sorry for your luck.
#158
The other thing to note about the engine that died, was the top of the piston was pitted very severly. This has me a bit stumped. It was fine after the qualifiers, as the engine died during the main. So maybe I did have a shimming issue, but I honestly don't think that was it.
#159
Tech Regular
Just noticed this commentary and actually, in my opinion, Darren has provided all the answers in his second posting, he runs in Colorado at an altitude of 5,000 ft and detonated a motor at sea level (or damn close) even though shimming was adjusted, yielding the familiar sandblasted look on the piston and head button and the bushing being pounded out of the rod, my guess is that it wasn't noticed in the qualifiers due to shorter runs or being set more conservatively and something changed in the main - it got cooler or the motor got leaned out causing conditions to over the edge.
Over the years of fooling with these sometimes infuriating little beasts I have run into some bad batches of fuel but that manifests itself as spun rod bushings (accompanied by a pretty blue color on the crank pin - grrrrrr) generally indicating lack of or poor oil. Also not quite so quick, but just as deadly, fuel with inferior or too little oil shortens bearing life in two ways, lack of lube while running and lack of protection afterwards. I've been using Tornado for the last couple of seasons and have been impessed with the consistency from can to can and the bearing protection it provides, and yeah I've peppered more than one motor in that time but it was due to my being overzealous with head clearance but hey you don't know where the limit is unless you exceed it once in a while.
Over the years of fooling with these sometimes infuriating little beasts I have run into some bad batches of fuel but that manifests itself as spun rod bushings (accompanied by a pretty blue color on the crank pin - grrrrrr) generally indicating lack of or poor oil. Also not quite so quick, but just as deadly, fuel with inferior or too little oil shortens bearing life in two ways, lack of lube while running and lack of protection afterwards. I've been using Tornado for the last couple of seasons and have been impessed with the consistency from can to can and the bearing protection it provides, and yeah I've peppered more than one motor in that time but it was due to my being overzealous with head clearance but hey you don't know where the limit is unless you exceed it once in a while.
#160
Anyway guys, thanks for your help. If you hear anything, please let me know Nitrohead. Thanks bro!
#161
Reagards,
Darren
#162
Tech Master
How are ya maddog?? I have to agree with Rick - timing was early (detonation). You know we tend to push our equipment too hard - I always watch the glow plug when we make a change. I, also, watch the head button (remove and review after each run) until I'm sure I have a handle on the "new" conditions. I watch for signs of advanced timing - on a motor that has been running well, with a good carmel look on the head, I watch for the carmel to slowly diminish - this is the early signs of "early ignition' (detonating). A new motor with no deposits - I watch for any "pitting" on the button - I look with a 10x glass - I prefer not to "pepper" the head. Next time I see ya I'd be happy to walk through the precautionary steps.
your bud,
Rich
Last edited by Rich Browne; 10-15-2007 at 08:56 AM.
#163
Hi Darren,
How are ya maddog?? I have to agree with Rick - timing was early (detonation). You know we tend to push our equipment too hard - I always watch the glow plug when we make a change. I, also, watch the head button (remove and review after each run) until I'm sure I have a handle on the "new" conditions. I watch for signs of advanced timing - on a motor that has been running well, with a good carmel look on the head, I watch for the carmel to slowly diminish - this is the early signs of "early ignition' (detonating). A new motor with no deposits - I watch for any "pitting" on the button - I look with a 10x glass - I prefer not to "pepper" the head. Next time I see ya I'd be happy to walk through the precautionary steps.
your bud,
Rich
How are ya maddog?? I have to agree with Rick - timing was early (detonation). You know we tend to push our equipment too hard - I always watch the glow plug when we make a change. I, also, watch the head button (remove and review after each run) until I'm sure I have a handle on the "new" conditions. I watch for signs of advanced timing - on a motor that has been running well, with a good carmel look on the head, I watch for the carmel to slowly diminish - this is the early signs of "early ignition' (detonating). A new motor with no deposits - I watch for any "pitting" on the button - I look with a 10x glass - I prefer not to "pepper" the head. Next time I see ya I'd be happy to walk through the precautionary steps.
your bud,
Rich
Your bro,
Darren
#164
I just wanted to thank EVERYONE that has helped with my issue. I appreciate all of your guys help very much. After talaking about this, I think I need to retact my belief that the fuel was the main issue. It is quickly turning into my error of head clearence etc. So my appologies to Tornado fuel. I wasn't 100% certain and I am never too proud to stand up and admit to and face my mistakes. I'm only human and certainly don't know it all.
So thanks again everyone. And Rich my friend, I will see you soon bro!
Best Regards,
Darren
So thanks again everyone. And Rich my friend, I will see you soon bro!
Best Regards,
Darren
#165
i was going to ask about your head clearance,but others already asked.
and sam just likes to bug me coz i dont like the hudy bit.
and sam just likes to bug me coz i dont like the hudy bit.