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Old 10-14-2007, 07:58 PM   #151
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OK, then that makes more sence! Thank you for the clarification. I didn't want my post to come accross as rude or anything. Thanks again!
but what your saying is this fuel brakes motor's
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Old 10-14-2007, 09:12 PM   #152
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but what your saying is this fuel brakes motor's
Not exactly. I am saying the only Motor I have had "break" was the one and only time I used Tornado. This is with 10 years of racing and NEVER "breaking" an engine once. I am extremely carefull and cautious with my engines. Anyway, It was a new RB C6 with way less then a gallon through it that died. More like half a gallon plus breakin. At the event this happen, there were a number of guys that broke some high dollar engines...Murnan Modded, Nova's and RB's. They were all using Tornado. My engine had never reached a temp above 220F at this race (However this is not my ONLY sence of tuning a motor by temp alone). It died in the middle of the straight away. After tearing the engine apart, It looked as though it was a lack of lubrication. Everything was still intact (no cracked parts or parts failure) but the rod bushings were very sloppy and the piston and sleeve had excessive deep scratches.

However, for me to solely blame it on the fuel would not be a fair assesment to Tornado, because it might have just been coincidence. Not sure. Since this was my first motor to ever break, I don't have much experience in assessing the problem. So the fuel may or may not have contributed to mine and the other racers engines to break. But hearing all the tuning issues and broken engines at the worlds this weekend, it could be a possibility. Like a bad batch possibly? Just a thought. But I know I will never use this fuel again just because of my personal experience.
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Old 10-14-2007, 09:28 PM   #153
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did you run in the engine with another fuel
then run it with tornado.
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Old 10-14-2007, 10:28 PM   #154
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but what your saying is this fuel brakes motor's
Daren, he said "brakes motors" of course not,
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Old 10-15-2007, 01:47 AM   #155
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Daren, he said "brakes motors" of course not,
SAM DUDE! Hows my California bro doing? Dude, for you being from another country, you know our uh um.. "English" Language BETTER then us Americans!! I thought I was the only one to catch everyone's spelling. I think you just like to point it out and have fun with it.
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Old 10-15-2007, 02:25 AM   #156
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did you run in the engine with another fuel
then run it with tornado.
Yes I did. I used 30% Blue Thunder "Race Blend". This is the fuel that I have ran for those 10 years I was telling you about. This is the more popular fuel for Colorado (Where I live) becaude of the Hobby Towns and our Race Club not associated with HT. I've always been very happy with this fuel as far as performance. I know it's good because the "fast" guys at our club have used it forever and they can stay right up there with the "Swagers" of the US and like I said before, I have NEVER had an issue with killing an engine. My engines usually get about 6-7 gallons through them on the same Piston and sleve. They never die, but they definately loose their power. although they still run good. Just not great!

The only "wierd" thing with this fuel is it makes your parts turn a little blue inside the engine. But this has no effect on the parts. Also, it doesn't say, but I think it uses a 12% castor/synthetic oil blend. But don't quote me on that. I also mention that I live in Colorado because of our altitude, which is around 5000 ft above sea level. So I am use to having to retune my engines when I travel. This is obviously the very first thing I do. And this race was at the 301 raceway in Maryland which I believe is pretty much sea level or maybe 500 ft. Just a guess.

And yes, I did shim my head clearence apropriately for the altitude and Nitro percentage I ran. I think I ran either 20 or 25% tornado. This was the ONLY fuel available for this race at the track.

The other thing to note about the engine that died, was the top of the piston was pitted very severly. This has me a bit stumped. It was fine after the qualifiers, as the engine died during the main. So maybe I did have a shimming issue, but I honestly don't think that was it. I would have to get that engine and measure the shims. I believe I used two silver (thick) and two copper (thin). I know that probably doesn't mean anything to you, but since I always run RB, this is how I have learned to do it. I don't know the "actuall" head clearence including the head button and all. But I have all the parts in a bag still, because I someday want to understand what happen to that engine. I'm still guessing it was the fuel.

So any ideas there Wally bro? Thanks for taking the time here. OH yea, SAM...if you read this again, maybe you can shed some light here since you were pitting for me when this happened. This was the Capital Classic race in Maryland.
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Old 10-15-2007, 05:56 AM   #157
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Serpent d,

I'am going to forward your experience on over to Tornado and Novarossi.
They will definitely have an answer for you on this.

Thank you and sorry for your luck.
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Old 10-15-2007, 06:09 AM   #158
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Serpent d,

I'am going to forward your experience on over to Tornado and Novarossi.
They will definitely have an answer for you on this.

Thank you and sorry for your luck.
They will reply to this part:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpentd View Post
The other thing to note about the engine that died, was the top of the piston was pitted very severly. This has me a bit stumped. It was fine after the qualifiers, as the engine died during the main. So maybe I did have a shimming issue, but I honestly don't think that was it.
And there answer will be, that the engine had pre-detonation, due to too little headclearance, or maybe the use of a too hot glowplug.
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Old 10-15-2007, 07:46 AM   #159
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Just noticed this commentary and actually, in my opinion, Darren has provided all the answers in his second posting, he runs in Colorado at an altitude of 5,000 ft and detonated a motor at sea level (or damn close) even though shimming was adjusted, yielding the familiar sandblasted look on the piston and head button and the bushing being pounded out of the rod, my guess is that it wasn't noticed in the qualifiers due to shorter runs or being set more conservatively and something changed in the main - it got cooler or the motor got leaned out causing conditions to over the edge.
Over the years of fooling with these sometimes infuriating little beasts I have run into some bad batches of fuel but that manifests itself as spun rod bushings (accompanied by a pretty blue color on the crank pin - grrrrrr) generally indicating lack of or poor oil. Also not quite so quick, but just as deadly, fuel with inferior or too little oil shortens bearing life in two ways, lack of lube while running and lack of protection afterwards. I've been using Tornado for the last couple of seasons and have been impessed with the consistency from can to can and the bearing protection it provides, and yeah I've peppered more than one motor in that time but it was due to my being overzealous with head clearance but hey you don't know where the limit is unless you exceed it once in a while.
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Old 10-15-2007, 08:28 AM   #160
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Serpent d,

I'am going to forward your experience on over to Tornado and Novarossi.
They will definitely have an answer for you on this.

Thank you and sorry for your luck.
Wow dude, thank you for your assistance. Yeah the rod bushings are what got hammered. I honestly think that the crank pin was not blueish in color and that the bearings were still ok...I think. I will find that motor in whatever box it is and check that stuff over. I am familar with the pitting on a piston if ran a bit lean. But yes, this was not that ooops, I ran it a little lean that qualifier. Plus this pitting was much more severe then that. I can feel that lean condition by the feel of it and lack of smoke. But as far as head shims, this was definately the closest to sea level I have ever ran up to that point. Have raced in California a few times after that and continued to use that same head clearence. I better read up on head clearence and make sure I'm not the cause of all this. But more then likely, human error (ME) is usually the issue.

Anyway guys, thanks for your help. If you hear anything, please let me know Nitrohead. Thanks bro!
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Old 10-15-2007, 08:35 AM   #161
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They will reply to this part:


And there answer will be, that the engine had pre-detonation, due to too little headclearance, or maybe the use of a too hot glowplug.
Dude, you are probably correct on that statement. I will look for this engine and double check everything and (re-learn) about head clearence. Thanks very much for everyones input.

Reagards,
Darren
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Old 10-15-2007, 09:28 AM   #162
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Dude, you are probably correct on that statement. I will look for this engine and double check everything and (re-learn) about head clearence. Thanks very much for everyones input.

Reagards,
Darren
Hi Darren,

How are ya maddog?? I have to agree with Rick - timing was early (detonation). You know we tend to push our equipment too hard - I always watch the glow plug when we make a change. I, also, watch the head button (remove and review after each run) until I'm sure I have a handle on the "new" conditions. I watch for signs of advanced timing - on a motor that has been running well, with a good carmel look on the head, I watch for the carmel to slowly diminish - this is the early signs of "early ignition' (detonating). A new motor with no deposits - I watch for any "pitting" on the button - I look with a 10x glass - I prefer not to "pepper" the head. Next time I see ya I'd be happy to walk through the precautionary steps.

your bud,
Rich

Last edited by Rich Browne; 10-15-2007 at 09:56 AM.
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Old 10-15-2007, 10:32 AM   #163
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Hi Darren,

How are ya maddog?? I have to agree with Rick - timing was early (detonation). You know we tend to push our equipment too hard - I always watch the glow plug when we make a change. I, also, watch the head button (remove and review after each run) until I'm sure I have a handle on the "new" conditions. I watch for signs of advanced timing - on a motor that has been running well, with a good carmel look on the head, I watch for the carmel to slowly diminish - this is the early signs of "early ignition' (detonating). A new motor with no deposits - I watch for any "pitting" on the button - I look with a 10x glass - I prefer not to "pepper" the head. Next time I see ya I'd be happy to walk through the precautionary steps.

your bud,
Rich
RICH MY BRO!!! That is too cool of you my friend I will most certainly take you up on your offer there. Even just your little walk through you posted on what you do is helpful in the mean time. I've ALWAYS paid attention, but this experience has proven to me that I need to pay closer attention more frequently. It's easy to sort of forget that in Colorado we don't have that much air to squeeze. So by getting wrapped up in the hustle and bustle of racing, I obviously need to slow down and pay more attention then I have been. So thank you very much for your input there my friend! It's very appreciated. And I look forward to seeing you at what ever race we attend at the same time. I will be looking for ya! I hope things are going good for you buddy, you've always been one killer dude! Take care my friend.

Your bro,
Darren
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Old 10-15-2007, 10:45 AM   #164
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I just wanted to thank EVERYONE that has helped with my issue. I appreciate all of your guys help very much. After talaking about this, I think I need to retact my belief that the fuel was the main issue. It is quickly turning into my error of head clearence etc. So my appologies to Tornado fuel. I wasn't 100% certain and I am never too proud to stand up and admit to and face my mistakes. I'm only human and certainly don't know it all.

So thanks again everyone. And Rich my friend, I will see you soon bro!

Best Regards,
Darren
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Old 10-15-2007, 03:19 PM   #165
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i was going to ask about your head clearance,but others already asked.
and sam just likes to bug me coz i dont like the hudy bit.
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