321LikesKyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit
11-05-2018, 09:06 AM - Wikipost
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Picked up a TKI3 and want to upgrade to TKI4 ? Here are all the updated parts:
Shocks IF347-155 1.5X5 Pistons IF471-01 Front Shock Body IF470-01 Rear Shock Body IF470-03BK Shock Adjust Dial IFW154 Boots IF346-05C Shock End Set Wing IF491BK Wing IFW460B Wing Mount/Stay Rear End IFH006W Wheel IF490 HUB IF490-01 Hub Insert IF492 Shock Pin IF423HB Rear Arm IF287 Hard Upper Rod Rear Front End IF489 Steering Rod Set IF488 Knuckles IF487H Front Arm IFW458 Hard Lower Pin IFW425 93MM CVD IF286 Hard Upper Rod IF486 Lower Susp Holder IFW459 Servo Saver (Hard) IF446B Ackerman Arm IF426-64.5 Susp Shaft Other IF469B Filter 97035LW-13 Clutch Bell IF453B Body Mount IFW107GM Hexes W300910 Washer IF443B Center Diff Plate IF444C Tank IF479B Radio Box 96772 13x16x0.15mm Shim IF481B Fuel Tank Stay IFW336GM Wheelnut IFB008 TKI4 Body IFD403W TKI4 Decal --------------------------- Another option if you want TKI4 Durability but TKI3 geometry of the front arm is : IF493 Front Arm (Updated MP9 front arms replaces IF427B as a direct fit. Left and right.) They use the older TKI3 captured outer hinge pin and screw. But if you just reem out the the outer hole you can use TKI hinge-pin/nut (IFW458) --------------------------- Optional Updates / New Parts: IFW469 IFW469 Aeration Cap Set(Threaded Big Shock/MP9) IFW473 New Brake Pads (Sept 2017) Optional Alu front hubs: - IFW412 - 13 deg (like stock plastic ones) - IFW436 - 16 deg - IFW474 - 17.5 deg - IFW461 - 19deg M2C 1mm engine spacer: M2C9610 Body Options New Bitty Force Body Tebo's Build Videos Video #1 Video #2 Video #3 Video #4 Video #5 Video #6 Original Kyosho MP9 TKI Thread _____________________ Baseline setups from Joonas.   _____________________ Shock build with vented cap and compensator. You have to use the HC diaphragms (if346-09,stock TKI3 and if not mistaken TKI4 too, yes the thin ones no one likes), aeration caps without the bleeder screw or mod the stock caps by drilling a 1.5 or 2mm hole on the top facing up or at an angle (doesn't matter the size or angle, it just for bleeding pressure behind the diaphragm and allow the foam compensator to breathe) and a 10mm width x 3.5mm height dome shaped foam compensator made from old open cell inserts or dishwasher sponge. The foam compensator has to be soft enough not to add rebound but allow the diaphragm to regain it's shape. Setup Sheet and Tuning The setup sheet is getting crowded with all options but don't worry once you get acquainted with the parts will make sense. Run the car as is, more than probably you won't need anything else. Using my setup as an example: Diff gear has two options, normal and LSD. LSD stands for limited slip differential and is like using thick oils because you can't tune coast from locked. Shock setup is a bit more confusing, you have two shock body sizes (S and M and truggy sized rear shocks that only the first version had so forget this one), three types of pistons (flat holes and surfaces, flat holes tapered surface and tapered holes with tapered surface): tapered have most pack, then black(simple piston) and then white because length of the holes. Then you have different length springs to account for different shock sizes, for a standard wheelbase/no weights car a good combo is Light Blue front and Orange rear, if you extend the wheelbase then I expect the included Light Blue rear springs be money instead of Orange. Ride height is self explanatory, start always with lower arms parallel because good suspension geometry will be far easier to achieve. Rebound is used as total shock length no idea why they call it rebound, either use total shock length or maximum exposed shock shaft length. Camber self explanatory, run more camber in the front than the rear to make the car oversteer and more rear than front to make it understeer(grossly oversimplified). Toe same deal as camber(again grossly oversimplified) but this you have to run the least amount you can. I use around 2º-2.5º on my cars, never more as I can find traction by other means with way less impact on performance. Wheelbase is a powerful setting, changes a lot of stuff. Let's just say that it can make the car behave neutral or not in that small range. Try for yourself. I like to use the longest setting and tune from there. Shock position self explanatory, something most don't change and I don't play around with it. I do have a method but involves much work (with the car bottomed out, see which position places the shock 90º to the lower arm and then chose spring from a couple equations and bam done, I can do it easily so anyone interested just ask. Rear upper arm position is again an important setting, you change both camber gain and roll centre. The rear roll centre should be higher than the front, that's why I use the middle hole inner row as a starting setup. Suspension arm, self explanatory: there are two different length arms and each has a hard and a normal flex plastic. Front suspension bushing is for upper arm alignment, also same deal as rear upper arm position changes both camber gain and roll centre. Suspension holder is for kick up (pro dive is the correct naming). I believe tki4 9º of kick up to be better than 9º of kick up using the tki3 parts because you can run the car lower (26mm front ride height) and use the +2mm front shock tower if there's too much camber gain or it's stiff in roll. So use +2mm lowered roll centre to keep most stuff unchanged or use the bushings with the dot up to lower the roll centre a bit more, doesn't hurt anything. Front hub carrier, self explanatory. I am trying to use the out hole on top of the carrier as it is better during braking and accelerating. Together with the higher front roll centre on the tki4 should provide enough camber gain during cornering if not then more caster will do. Rear roll centre and anti squat(wrongly called skid angle). Again same thinking as the front, lower the car and keep roll centre in the same height as before(that will need a change in upper arm position which my setup does). Anti squat is changed only if the pitching motion causes too much camber to be gained by the rear tires on power, nothing more. Front knuckle, apparently there's a difference in the Ackerman arm. Can't say anything about them as I don't know enough about both. Rear hub carrier,there is one made of plastic (which doesn't have offset apparently so it's suited to long arm setting) and three aluminium versions. One similar to the plastic one, other with offset and a new one with offset and adjustable hub height. Rear tread can be used as arm length and outboard toe(never seen it being used but the possibility is there). Longer is better most of the time (only on really low traction). Chassis brace, wheel hub, sway bars and weight are self explanatory. No need to use weights nor other hubs. A couple of roll bars would be a nice addition. About the aluminium braces I am torn, I guess the car doesn't need flex with this setup but won't recommend the stiffer braces but the lower engine mount is very nice to deal with flex around the clutch. Wing and wing stay are like the d81x had regarding height and position. The wing should be as low and have free airflow as possible. 
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12-17-2017, 12:25 PM
#2192
Tech Master
no, i think they are the angeld ones in the kit. The "good" pistons have the holes straight through the piston.
12-17-2017, 10:28 PM
#2196
Disclaimer - I'm going to be blunt, nothing against you sir.
The TKI3 wasn't better than the TKI4, the TKI4 was a step in the good direction only thing I don't like are the stock pistons being the same front and rear, they shouldn't be because of how the shocks are mounted. Setup skills are scarce amongst pros, not that I'm a setup god but i know a thing or two. That being said, I've spent 30 minutes every day of this week at the track perfecting my setup. And I did perfect it and learned some things.
First, the stock setup is aimed at giving lots of corner entry steering, too much actually and the front loses grip too fast. To tune this use the HT-LR V5 setup I'm going to put on the wiki above this page. Really the biggest difference between the 3 and the 4 is that you can't run 11 degrees of kick up on the 4 stock, period. Second, if runtime is an issue the problem is from your driving or building skills, sorry to say this but here's a tip, if you want to increase runtime use the throttle sparingly. Hold off throttle as much as you can, brake deep into the corners (not before) and power once you finished the corner, not sooner. Will take time to master this technique called trail braking but 100% worth it.
Sir allow me to disagree with you regarding the need to buy TKI3 knuckles. The 17.5* caster blocks are inexpensive and good to have on hand, other than that nothing is really needed maybe 8 hole pistons but definitely not the TKI3 knuckles IMO.
I have both cars and the steering angle isn't different without using tools to measure, only the bump steer because of the kick up change. BTW the bump steer curve is more consistent on the TKI4. I think that's the reason most feel the 3 has better steering when it really doesn't, it's just the the 4 doesn't shine as good as it can.
You already have the pills why not try more kick up on your car? Dot up and in on the A plate
So are you using the stock TKI4 parts yet?
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About the testing I've made during this week, I wanted to see why the TKI3 parts were used. Using my TKI3 as the test mule:
- A spec setup, easy to drive but slow. Why? The front end is numb but the grip balance is good, while having lower grip than the setup I ended using today.
- less kick up. Very good change, the front end had more grip on braking and acceleration transients.
- longer front upper arm so it has the same length as the rear, major change! Everything went bananas, almost no steering into the corner and too much exit.
- orange rear springs, consistent but not better overall.
- HRC D plate bushing, small change.
- 2.5mm front roll bar not good, too stiff.
- 2.3mm rear roll bar with 2.5mm front roll bar, not good.
- 2.3/2.3, meh. (want to try 2.5/2.5).
- 2.3mm front roll bar with 2.5mm rear roll bar (stock), a bit better.
- #2 hole on the rear shock tower, everything better. Tears of joy, champagne for everyone and fireworks. Front grip, rear grip and corner speed was better.
The TKI3 wasn't better than the TKI4, the TKI4 was a step in the good direction only thing I don't like are the stock pistons being the same front and rear, they shouldn't be because of how the shocks are mounted. Setup skills are scarce amongst pros, not that I'm a setup god but i know a thing or two. That being said, I've spent 30 minutes every day of this week at the track perfecting my setup. And I did perfect it and learned some things.
First, the stock setup is aimed at giving lots of corner entry steering, too much actually and the front loses grip too fast. To tune this use the HT-LR V5 setup I'm going to put on the wiki above this page. Really the biggest difference between the 3 and the 4 is that you can't run 11 degrees of kick up on the 4 stock, period. Second, if runtime is an issue the problem is from your driving or building skills, sorry to say this but here's a tip, if you want to increase runtime use the throttle sparingly. Hold off throttle as much as you can, brake deep into the corners (not before) and power once you finished the corner, not sooner. Will take time to master this technique called trail braking but 100% worth it.
Sir allow me to disagree with you regarding the need to buy TKI3 knuckles. The 17.5* caster blocks are inexpensive and good to have on hand, other than that nothing is really needed maybe 8 hole pistons but definitely not the TKI3 knuckles IMO.
I have both cars and the steering angle isn't different without using tools to measure, only the bump steer because of the kick up change. BTW the bump steer curve is more consistent on the TKI4. I think that's the reason most feel the 3 has better steering when it really doesn't, it's just the the 4 doesn't shine as good as it can.
You already have the pills why not try more kick up on your car? Dot up and in on the A plate
So are you using the stock TKI4 parts yet?
----//-----
About the testing I've made during this week, I wanted to see why the TKI3 parts were used. Using my TKI3 as the test mule:
- A spec setup, easy to drive but slow. Why? The front end is numb but the grip balance is good, while having lower grip than the setup I ended using today.
- less kick up. Very good change, the front end had more grip on braking and acceleration transients.
- longer front upper arm so it has the same length as the rear, major change! Everything went bananas, almost no steering into the corner and too much exit.
- orange rear springs, consistent but not better overall.
- HRC D plate bushing, small change.
- 2.5mm front roll bar not good, too stiff.
- 2.3mm rear roll bar with 2.5mm front roll bar, not good.
- 2.3/2.3, meh. (want to try 2.5/2.5).
- 2.3mm front roll bar with 2.5mm rear roll bar (stock), a bit better.
- #2 hole on the rear shock tower, everything better. Tears of joy, champagne for everyone and fireworks. Front grip, rear grip and corner speed was better.
12-18-2017, 01:07 AM
#2198
not sure why anyone would even try a heavier front swaybar than rear in offroad. I don't think I've ever seen that
12-18-2017, 03:12 AM
#2199
it's the balance of elastic stiffness (springs,roll bar) vs geometric stiffness (suspension geometry). As I lowered geometric stiffness (lower front roll centre) to have the same total roll as before (because the roll amount was good and I didn't needed more) I had to increase roll bar thickness. Bam, that's why the front roll bar got thicker than the rear one, as I said i settled on the 2.5mm front to have a slightly more aggressive car than 2.3mm front roll bar. With those two bars I don't need to change anything else in the setup and letting a big secret out I'm sure the tire temp and wear are lower.
12-18-2017, 11:46 AM
#2200
Tech Master
the "good" 1.3x8 is IF347-138
12-20-2017, 04:26 PM
#2204