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Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit

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Old 11-05-2018, 09:06 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech ForumsThread Wiki: Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit
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Last edit by: 30Tooth
Picked up a TKI3 and want to upgrade to TKI4 ? Here are all the updated parts:

Shocks

IF347-155 1.5X5 Pistons
IF471-01 Front Shock Body
IF470-01 Rear Shock Body
IF470-03BK Shock Adjust Dial
IFW154 Boots
IF346-05C Shock End Set

Wing

IF491BK Wing
IFW460B Wing Mount/Stay

Rear End

IFH006W Wheel
IF490 HUB
IF490-01 Hub Insert
IF492 Shock Pin
IF423HB Rear Arm
IF287 Hard Upper Rod Rear

Front End

IF489 Steering Rod Set
IF488 Knuckles
IF487H Front Arm
IFW458 Hard Lower Pin
IFW425 93MM CVD
IF286 Hard Upper Rod
IF486 Lower Susp Holder
IFW459 Servo Saver (Hard)
IF446B Ackerman Arm
IF426-64.5 Susp Shaft


Other

IF469B Filter
97035LW-13 Clutch Bell
IF453B Body Mount
IFW107GM Hexes
W300910 Washer
IF443B Center Diff Plate
IF444C Tank
IF479B Radio Box
96772 13x16x0.15mm Shim
IF481B Fuel Tank Stay
IFW336GM Wheelnut
IFB008 TKI4 Body
IFD403W TKI4 Decal

---------------------------

Another option if you want TKI4 Durability but TKI3 geometry of the front arm is :

IF493 Front Arm (Updated MP9 front arms replaces IF427B as a direct fit. Left and right.)

They use the older TKI3 captured outer hinge pin and screw. But if you just reem out the the outer hole you can use TKI hinge-pin/nut (IFW458)
---------------------------

Optional Updates / New Parts:

IFW469 IFW469 Aeration Cap Set(Threaded Big Shock/MP9)

IFW473 New Brake Pads (Sept 2017)

Optional Alu front hubs:
- IFW412 - 13 deg (like stock plastic ones)
- IFW436 - 16 deg
- IFW474 - 17.5 deg
- IFW461 - 19deg

M2C 1mm engine spacer: M2C9610

Body Options
New Bitty Force Body

Tebo's Build Videos

Video #1

Video #2

Video #3

Video #4

Video #5

Video #6

Original Kyosho MP9 TKI Thread
_____________________

Baseline setups from Joonas.




_____________________

Shock build with vented cap and compensator.

You have to use the HC diaphragms (if346-09,stock TKI3 and if not mistaken TKI4 too, yes the thin ones no one likes), aeration caps without the bleeder screw or mod the stock caps by drilling a 1.5 or 2mm hole on the top facing up or at an angle (doesn't matter the size or angle, it just for bleeding pressure behind the diaphragm and allow the foam compensator to breathe) and a 10mm width x 3.5mm height dome shaped foam compensator made from old open cell inserts or dishwasher sponge. The foam compensator has to be soft enough not to add rebound but allow the diaphragm to regain it's shape.

Setup Sheet and Tuning

The setup sheet is getting crowded with all options but don't worry once you get acquainted with the parts will make sense.
Run the car as is, more than probably you won't need anything else. Using my setup as an example:

Diff gear has two options, normal and LSD. LSD stands for limited slip differential and is like using thick oils because you can't tune coast from locked.

Shock setup is a bit more confusing, you have two shock body sizes (S and M and truggy sized rear shocks that only the first version had so forget this one), three types of pistons (flat holes and surfaces, flat holes tapered surface and tapered holes with tapered surface): tapered have most pack, then black(simple piston) and then white because length of the holes. Then you have different length springs to account for different shock sizes, for a standard wheelbase/no weights car a good combo is Light Blue front and Orange rear, if you extend the wheelbase then I expect the included Light Blue rear springs be money instead of Orange.

Ride height is self explanatory, start always with lower arms parallel because good suspension geometry will be far easier to achieve. Rebound is used as total shock length no idea why they call it rebound, either use total shock length or maximum exposed shock shaft length. Camber self explanatory, run more camber in the front than the rear to make the car oversteer and more rear than front to make it understeer(grossly oversimplified).

Toe same deal as camber(again grossly oversimplified) but this you have to run the least amount you can. I use around 2º-2.5º on my cars, never more as I can find traction by other means with way less impact on performance.

Wheelbase is a powerful setting, changes a lot of stuff. Let's just say that it can make the car behave neutral or not in that small range. Try for yourself. I like to use the longest setting and tune from there.

Shock position self explanatory, something most don't change and I don't play around with it. I do have a method but involves much work (with the car bottomed out, see which position places the shock 90º to the lower arm and then chose spring from a couple equations and bam done, I can do it easily so anyone interested just ask.

Rear upper arm position is again an important setting, you change both camber gain and roll centre. The rear roll centre should be higher than the front, that's why I use the middle hole inner row as a starting setup.

Suspension arm, self explanatory: there are two different length arms and each has a hard and a normal flex plastic.

Front suspension bushing is for upper arm alignment, also same deal as rear upper arm position changes both camber gain and roll centre.

Suspension holder is for kick up (pro dive is the correct naming). I believe tki4 9º of kick up to be better than 9º of kick up using the tki3 parts because you can run the car lower (26mm front ride height) and use the +2mm front shock tower if there's too much camber gain or it's stiff in roll. So use +2mm lowered roll centre to keep most stuff unchanged or use the bushings with the dot up to lower the roll centre a bit more, doesn't hurt anything.

Front hub carrier, self explanatory. I am trying to use the out hole on top of the carrier as it is better during braking and accelerating. Together with the higher front roll centre on the tki4 should provide enough camber gain during cornering if not then more caster will do.

Rear roll centre and anti squat(wrongly called skid angle). Again same thinking as the front, lower the car and keep roll centre in the same height as before(that will need a change in upper arm position which my setup does). Anti squat is changed only if the pitching motion causes too much camber to be gained by the rear tires on power, nothing more.

Front knuckle, apparently there's a difference in the Ackerman arm. Can't say anything about them as I don't know enough about both.

Rear hub carrier,there is one made of plastic (which doesn't have offset apparently so it's suited to long arm setting) and three aluminium versions. One similar to the plastic one, other with offset and a new one with offset and adjustable hub height.

Rear tread can be used as arm length and outboard toe(never seen it being used but the possibility is there). Longer is better most of the time (only on really low traction).

Chassis brace, wheel hub, sway bars and weight are self explanatory. No need to use weights nor other hubs. A couple of roll bars would be a nice addition. About the aluminium braces I am torn, I guess the car doesn't need flex with this setup but won't recommend the stiffer braces but the lower engine mount is very nice to deal with flex around the clutch.

Wing and wing stay are like the d81x had regarding height and position. The wing should be as low and have free airflow as possible.

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Old 12-23-2017, 04:33 PM
  #2206  
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth
The very first MP9 version used those on the rear. All those sizes are for longer shocks
Thanks for that
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Old 12-23-2017, 10:16 PM
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5-6-5 diff oils on low grip? That doesnt feel horrible?
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Old 12-24-2017, 02:40 AM
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5-5-3 /5-5-2.
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Old 12-24-2017, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Gavel
5-6-5 diff oils on low grip? That doesnt feel horrible?
The 6 in the center might give the car a Lil more rear wheel drive than you want in low grip, I would prob drop that down to 5 or 4. And lower the rear diff to 3 or 2
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Old 12-24-2017, 09:48 AM
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When we copied what we ran on the HB the car was great in low bite conditions. 5-3-2 is what I've been running as of late. On higher bite clay I switched the middle to 4.
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Old 12-27-2017, 03:17 AM
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Default Shock setup for bumpy , med-low grip track

Hi everyone!

Which shock setup would you recommend me for a bumpy track with medium to low grip, that degrades and temp around 15 celcius degree?

Thanks a lot!

Daniel
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Old 12-27-2017, 01:44 PM
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1,3x8 pistons. 400 kyosho oil rear. 500 front. Light blue springs front and orange rear springs.
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by am
1,3x8 pistons. 400 kyosho oil rear. 500 front. Light blue springs front and orange rear springs.
Ok. Thanks a lot for the answer!
Daniel
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Old 12-31-2017, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by am
1,3x8 pistons. 400 kyosho oil rear. 500 front. Light blue springs front and orange rear springs.
What is that roughly in Associated oil? 40/50?
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:17 PM
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Ok guys, I am going to put out some of my thoughts about the tki4. From the beginning I have been pretty impressed with the car right out of the box. I have tried several set up changes including putting the tki3 b block and knuckles on. During the b block swap I was amazed at the difference in kick up vs the two cars. I thought to myself the difference on the track is going to be night and day. Well I had a good opportunity to test the difference in parts on the same track layout.

The numbers did not lye. I dont have anything documented but the change from the previous b block was worth about 3 tenths pretty consistently. My deal is I really dont know if this change is necessary? I felt the steering was pretty much the same. And the surface I was testing on doesnt get too rough so the bump handling felt overall about the same. I can recall the first night I raced the car in all tki4 form, the track had actually become very rough, jumps had come apart, lots of holes and loose dirt on the surface. I had won the b main hands down, then went from last in the a to finish 5th in the a. I only felt I did in my mind pretty satisfactory because my car was dealing with these surfaces very well. I am going to say that the old b block may only be necessary where track surfaces become very rough. I really dont know yet as I havent been to very many other tracks lately.

I am very happy with the kyosho, but truth be told i thought it was a bummer when I read that folks were swapping the old b block and knuckles. That is about another 150.00 dollars on top of the kit, starts to make it pricey to run the kyosho. I had read about guys breaking pills in the a block, primarily when using the tki4 b block, I have not broke a pill yet 5 gallons down the road. This is using either b block.

I guess the big question at hand is are the tki3 b block and knuckles really necessary? How about just using the b block only? I would think that would make the bigger change in the car. I have been tempted to put the kit parts back on.

The car is just so easy to set up. I find the only thing I really change is the center and rear diff oil depending on track conditions. Same with the shocks. I may go up or down a weight in oil depending on temps and conditions. I watched several of the videos put up by Mike Craddock on how to service the car and have found issues that I used to have, I no longer have them.
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Old 01-01-2018, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by NoobRacer
What is that roughly in Associated oil? 40/50?
FYI - AE oils have the CST rating listed on the bottles. AE 32.5wt = 388cst
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Old 01-01-2018, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jpz_67
Ok guys, I am going to put out some of my thoughts about the tki4. From the beginning I have been pretty impressed with the car right out of the box. I have tried several set up changes including putting the tki3 b block and knuckles on. During the b block swap I was amazed at the difference in kick up vs the two cars. I thought to myself the difference on the track is going to be night and day. Well I had a good opportunity to test the difference in parts on the same track layout.

The numbers did not lye. I dont have anything documented but the change from the previous b block was worth about 3 tenths pretty consistently. My deal is I really dont know if this change is necessary? I felt the steering was pretty much the same. And the surface I was testing on doesnt get too rough so the bump handling felt overall about the same. I can recall the first night I raced the car in all tki4 form, the track had actually become very rough, jumps had come apart, lots of holes and loose dirt on the surface. I had won the b main hands down, then went from last in the a to finish 5th in the a. I only felt I did in my mind pretty satisfactory because my car was dealing with these surfaces very well. I am going to say that the old b block may only be necessary where track surfaces become very rough. I really dont know yet as I havent been to very many other tracks lately.

I am very happy with the kyosho, but truth be told i thought it was a bummer when I read that folks were swapping the old b block and knuckles. That is about another 150.00 dollars on top of the kit, starts to make it pricey to run the kyosho. I had read about guys breaking pills in the a block, primarily when using the tki4 b block, I have not broke a pill yet 5 gallons down the road. This is using either b block.

I guess the big question at hand is are the tki3 b block and knuckles really necessary? How about just using the b block only? I would think that would make the bigger change in the car. I have been tempted to put the kit parts back on.

The car is just so easy to set up. I find the only thing I really change is the center and rear diff oil depending on track conditions. Same with the shocks. I may go up or down a weight in oil depending on temps and conditions. I watched several of the videos put up by Mike Craddock on how to service the car and have found issues that I used to have, I no longer have them.
So the tki4 b block was 0.3 faster? Also you don’t need the tki3 $150 parts ($130 actually I think). I have been running the rtr knuckles and b block with no issues other than I stopped breaking the pills in the a block. For me the tki3 parts make the car easier to drive.
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Old 01-02-2018, 03:54 AM
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No offence guys but going to the TKI3 parts is like going back to horse-drawn carriages because cars are too finicky you are free to use whatever you want but I did the work to have TKI4 parts working for everyone at least give it a try.
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Old 01-02-2018, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by windellmc
So the tki4 b block was 0.3 faster? Also you don’t need the tki3 $150 parts ($130 actually I think). I have been running the rtr knuckles and b block with no issues other than I stopped breaking the pills in the a block. For me the tki3 parts make the car easier to drive.
When I would turn in my best laps, they were 3 tenths faster. Just to clarify. Not like I was 3 tenths across the board. This was with the tki3 block and knuckles.
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Old 01-03-2018, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth
No offence guys but going to the TKI3 parts is like going back to horse-drawn carriages because cars are too finicky you are free to use whatever you want but I did the work to have TKI4 parts working for everyone at least give it a try.
None taken 30Tooth. I am just curious. Your setup, that is run on US tracks correct? 2 degrees rear toe, I would think the car is a handful with that little toe. Unless you are on astroturf, tarmac, carpet, etc.
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