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Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit

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Old 11-05-2018, 09:06 AM   -   Wikipost
R/C Tech ForumsThread Wiki: Kyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit
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Last edit by: 30Tooth
Picked up a TKI3 and want to upgrade to TKI4 ? Here are all the updated parts:

Shocks

IF347-155 1.5X5 Pistons
IF471-01 Front Shock Body
IF470-01 Rear Shock Body
IF470-03BK Shock Adjust Dial
IFW154 Boots
IF346-05C Shock End Set

Wing

IF491BK Wing
IFW460B Wing Mount/Stay

Rear End

IFH006W Wheel
IF490 HUB
IF490-01 Hub Insert
IF492 Shock Pin
IF423HB Rear Arm
IF287 Hard Upper Rod Rear

Front End

IF489 Steering Rod Set
IF488 Knuckles
IF487H Front Arm
IFW458 Hard Lower Pin
IFW425 93MM CVD
IF286 Hard Upper Rod
IF486 Lower Susp Holder
IFW459 Servo Saver (Hard)
IF446B Ackerman Arm
IF426-64.5 Susp Shaft


Other

IF469B Filter
97035LW-13 Clutch Bell
IF453B Body Mount
IFW107GM Hexes
W300910 Washer
IF443B Center Diff Plate
IF444C Tank
IF479B Radio Box
96772 13x16x0.15mm Shim
IF481B Fuel Tank Stay
IFW336GM Wheelnut
IFB008 TKI4 Body
IFD403W TKI4 Decal

---------------------------

Another option if you want TKI4 Durability but TKI3 geometry of the front arm is :

IF493 Front Arm (Updated MP9 front arms replaces IF427B as a direct fit. Left and right.)

They use the older TKI3 captured outer hinge pin and screw. But if you just reem out the the outer hole you can use TKI hinge-pin/nut (IFW458)
---------------------------

Optional Updates / New Parts:

IFW469 IFW469 Aeration Cap Set(Threaded Big Shock/MP9)

IFW473 New Brake Pads (Sept 2017)

Optional Alu front hubs:
- IFW412 - 13 deg (like stock plastic ones)
- IFW436 - 16 deg
- IFW474 - 17.5 deg
- IFW461 - 19deg

M2C 1mm engine spacer: M2C9610

Body Options
New Bitty Force Body

Tebo's Build Videos

Video #1

Video #2

Video #3

Video #4

Video #5

Video #6

Original Kyosho MP9 TKI Thread
_____________________

Baseline setups from Joonas.




_____________________

Shock build with vented cap and compensator.

You have to use the HC diaphragms (if346-09,stock TKI3 and if not mistaken TKI4 too, yes the thin ones no one likes), aeration caps without the bleeder screw or mod the stock caps by drilling a 1.5 or 2mm hole on the top facing up or at an angle (doesn't matter the size or angle, it just for bleeding pressure behind the diaphragm and allow the foam compensator to breathe) and a 10mm width x 3.5mm height dome shaped foam compensator made from old open cell inserts or dishwasher sponge. The foam compensator has to be soft enough not to add rebound but allow the diaphragm to regain it's shape.

Setup Sheet and Tuning

The setup sheet is getting crowded with all options but don't worry once you get acquainted with the parts will make sense.
Run the car as is, more than probably you won't need anything else. Using my setup as an example:

Diff gear has two options, normal and LSD. LSD stands for limited slip differential and is like using thick oils because you can't tune coast from locked.

Shock setup is a bit more confusing, you have two shock body sizes (S and M and truggy sized rear shocks that only the first version had so forget this one), three types of pistons (flat holes and surfaces, flat holes tapered surface and tapered holes with tapered surface): tapered have most pack, then black(simple piston) and then white because length of the holes. Then you have different length springs to account for different shock sizes, for a standard wheelbase/no weights car a good combo is Light Blue front and Orange rear, if you extend the wheelbase then I expect the included Light Blue rear springs be money instead of Orange.

Ride height is self explanatory, start always with lower arms parallel because good suspension geometry will be far easier to achieve. Rebound is used as total shock length no idea why they call it rebound, either use total shock length or maximum exposed shock shaft length. Camber self explanatory, run more camber in the front than the rear to make the car oversteer and more rear than front to make it understeer(grossly oversimplified).

Toe same deal as camber(again grossly oversimplified) but this you have to run the least amount you can. I use around 2º-2.5º on my cars, never more as I can find traction by other means with way less impact on performance.

Wheelbase is a powerful setting, changes a lot of stuff. Let's just say that it can make the car behave neutral or not in that small range. Try for yourself. I like to use the longest setting and tune from there.

Shock position self explanatory, something most don't change and I don't play around with it. I do have a method but involves much work (with the car bottomed out, see which position places the shock 90º to the lower arm and then chose spring from a couple equations and bam done, I can do it easily so anyone interested just ask.

Rear upper arm position is again an important setting, you change both camber gain and roll centre. The rear roll centre should be higher than the front, that's why I use the middle hole inner row as a starting setup.

Suspension arm, self explanatory: there are two different length arms and each has a hard and a normal flex plastic.

Front suspension bushing is for upper arm alignment, also same deal as rear upper arm position changes both camber gain and roll centre.

Suspension holder is for kick up (pro dive is the correct naming). I believe tki4 9º of kick up to be better than 9º of kick up using the tki3 parts because you can run the car lower (26mm front ride height) and use the +2mm front shock tower if there's too much camber gain or it's stiff in roll. So use +2mm lowered roll centre to keep most stuff unchanged or use the bushings with the dot up to lower the roll centre a bit more, doesn't hurt anything.

Front hub carrier, self explanatory. I am trying to use the out hole on top of the carrier as it is better during braking and accelerating. Together with the higher front roll centre on the tki4 should provide enough camber gain during cornering if not then more caster will do.

Rear roll centre and anti squat(wrongly called skid angle). Again same thinking as the front, lower the car and keep roll centre in the same height as before(that will need a change in upper arm position which my setup does). Anti squat is changed only if the pitching motion causes too much camber to be gained by the rear tires on power, nothing more.

Front knuckle, apparently there's a difference in the Ackerman arm. Can't say anything about them as I don't know enough about both.

Rear hub carrier,there is one made of plastic (which doesn't have offset apparently so it's suited to long arm setting) and three aluminium versions. One similar to the plastic one, other with offset and a new one with offset and adjustable hub height.

Rear tread can be used as arm length and outboard toe(never seen it being used but the possibility is there). Longer is better most of the time (only on really low traction).

Chassis brace, wheel hub, sway bars and weight are self explanatory. No need to use weights nor other hubs. A couple of roll bars would be a nice addition. About the aluminium braces I am torn, I guess the car doesn't need flex with this setup but won't recommend the stiffer braces but the lower engine mount is very nice to deal with flex around the clutch.

Wing and wing stay are like the d81x had regarding height and position. The wing should be as low and have free airflow as possible.

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Old 12-06-2017, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by NoobRacer
I know this is the buggy thread but is the Kyosho truggy worth getting?
Yes it is. I’ve got mine for sale just not listed on rc tech yet. If interested message me with your phone number and I can send pics and details.
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:05 PM
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Hi, first ever post so apologies if this doesn’t work right...
I’m keen to hear opinions on why oils are increased in weight but not necessarily spring rates. I was thinking springs would provide equal or more resistance/damping (using say 550 oil) without compromising rebound / becoming too slow. Is there a tipping point where higher/lower springs are needed?
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Matty A
Hi, first ever post so apologies if this doesn’t work right...
I’m keen to hear opinions on why oils are increased in weight but not necessarily spring rates. I was thinking springs would provide equal or more resistance/damping (using say 550 oil) without compromising rebound / becoming too slow. Is there a tipping point where higher/lower springs are needed?
There is never a point where a spring change is needed when one plays with damping. What you should change is rebound because it's what you want to change right? Then just bleed less oil and do as I and others been doing, cut a small disk of foam to put between the bladder and the cap. That way you can run stiffer damping without going overboard
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Old 12-08-2017, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Matty A
Hi, first ever post so apologies if this doesn’t work right...
I’m keen to hear opinions on why oils are increased in weight but not necessarily spring rates. I was thinking springs would provide equal or more resistance/damping (using say 550 oil) without compromising rebound / becoming too slow. Is there a tipping point where higher/lower springs are needed?
Springs, if i recall correctly, are changed to modify the amount of weight transfer. Shock oils are changed to modify how quickly the weight transfers.
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:26 PM
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Hi guys,
Thanks for the responses. Both answers make sense. Further context: mp9e circa 8.6 pounds. I figured this is about 10 percent higher than nitro equivalent. When I make certain nitro specific changes suggested in previous posts, my car would bottom heavily when dropped at 12inches. I figured oil or springs. Increasing oil worked but it affected rebound as 800 weight is like molasses. I then figured if I increase spring rate 10% this would then make the other suggestions for oil equal between nitro/electric settings.
In summary: use sponge technique as solution to improve rebound. Increase spring to assist additional weight I’m carrying.
The track I’m racing on: smooth, dusty, tight, reasonably big jumps. I’m using grey springs, 8.2 pistons in front, 8.3 in rear. 700 in front 650 in rear.
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Old 12-08-2017, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Gavel
Springs, if i recall correctly, are changed to modify the amount of weight transfer. Shock oils are changed to modify how quickly the weight transfers.
Thanks guys for the responses. Both answers make sense. More context: mp9e circa 8.6lbs. I noticed the buggy would bottom a lot from a 12 inch drop. Went up in oil to 800 but the rebound was very slow. I thought to keep consistent with nitro I’d need 10% more in spring to carry the heavier weight and keep oils consistent. So currently I’m 8.2 pistons in front 700 oil, 8.3 rear 650 oil, grey springs all around.
Track I’m on: smooth, dusty, tight, mid sized jumps.
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Old 12-09-2017, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Gavel
Springs, if i recall correctly, are changed to modify the amount of weight transfer. Shock oils are changed to modify how quickly the weight transfers.
Sort of but you are thinking correctly. See, let's say we develop an air suspension that is active, that means the load each tire "senses" varies less during driver inputs because the load is transferred slower between sides. With stiffer damping that happens quicker and so happens with stiffer springs, but the springs will have an interesting caveat. The springs always want to retain their normal length, or they wouldn't be springs that means for example during braking the front will resist harder and harder and the rear will jack up! Therefore, when given the choice between harder springs or more damping err on the softer side of springs and go up on damping. Also true for anti squat and kick up, they work like front to rear roll bars.
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:27 PM
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Finally got my first nitro win yesterday. Car was on rails for the 30min main. I absolutely love this buggy. It drives itself at times. the 2018 season is looking really good What's the deal with the in-line fuel filter? Have guys switched it out for an after market one or stayed with the kit one? I believe I'm getting an air leak at the filter.
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by STLNLST
Finally got my first nitro win yesterday. Car was on rails for the 30min main. I absolutely love this buggy. It drives itself at times. the 2018 season is looking really good What's the deal with the in-line fuel filter? Have guys switched it out for an after market one or stayed with the kit one? I believe I'm getting an air leak at the filter.
Tebo is running no filter. Kanai is running stock filter. Boots is running stock filter. Seems to be working for them.
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Old 12-11-2017, 02:06 AM
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no problems with the stock filter here
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by STLNLST
Finally got my first nitro win yesterday. Car was on rails for the 30min main. I absolutely love this buggy. It drives itself at times. the 2018 season is looking really good What's the deal with the in-line fuel filter? Have guys switched it out for an after market one or stayed with the kit one? I believe I'm getting an air leak at the filter.
Congrats! No issues here too with the stock filter, but if you have issues check all orings in the tank and fuel filter.
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Old 12-11-2017, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth
Congrats! No issues here too with the stock filter, but if you have issues check all orings in the tank and fuel filter.
I will check those once I tear down for a clean up.
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Old 12-11-2017, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by STLNLST
I will check those once I tear down for a clean up.
Check also the fuel lines, particularly those close to the clutch, spur gear and brakes.

Were you using the setup I developed?
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Old 12-11-2017, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 30Tooth
Check also the fuel lines, particularly those close to the clutch, spur gear and brakes.

Were you using the setup I developed?
Running our own setup with a few changes. We are all on the same page right now so it wouldn't make sense to try a completely new setup. One of days that are slotted practice days I'm usually running electric 1/10th scale.
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:12 PM
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Put loctite on the fuel filter threads where it screw apart.I was given that tip from a former team guy a few years ago and that fixed my leak.
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