Rule changes and classes for 2010
09-20-2009, 01:27 PM
#151
I personally don't think the "pace car" thing would work.
Also this whole thing about 24 MPH, you have to remember, that's someone else's soultion, there is no speed limit in the rules, so that again makes us non-standard. I am sure the USVTA is going to have to do some reworking.
I have some thoughts about a real handicap type class, based on average of best 5 laps, every week change the gear ratios, everyone has a different one, but that's more about results (not good car, bad car, good driver, bad driver) and it would still be a bunch of between race time to maintain, just to much effort for the gain.
Novices, well we really do let them run whatever they show up with at least the first week, and a $16 silver can is the only real requirement (plus fees), which we often don't enforce the first week.
I wouldn't care if they ran the radio shack and walmart stuff, but we would just be setting them up to fail. With no spare parts, they will just break the car and be gone, and not be happy about it either.
Just having a "play time" for the specators would be cool, but the dang ROAR insurance junk, pretty well kills that.
I don't think you want to get into the LOANER business, to much repair, to many kids that want to run. We did this at the Italian car show once. Destoryed four cars, and was no way to keep enough batteries charged for the line of kids wanting to drive. We charged like $2 for 2 min, and it was still a hopeless mess. But the kids had a blast. And it was just a 20 foot oval.
If you wanted to rent the car out, you would still have to charge $30-40 PLUS Parts for the hassle. If we are going to get people to contribute time to the club, I think we got other areas the manpower would be better spent. (Like track setup, take down, repair, scoring, etc.)
If you can get an adult, seriously interested, who can afford the hobby, then taking them aside and loaning them a car is great, but as a regular deal..I don't think you want to spend all your time repairing loaner cars for kids. You end up feeling like your just a babysitter, for some parents, with a little (but not enough) money.
OlsandSlow - (and Cranky), haha
Also this whole thing about 24 MPH, you have to remember, that's someone else's soultion, there is no speed limit in the rules, so that again makes us non-standard. I am sure the USVTA is going to have to do some reworking.
I have some thoughts about a real handicap type class, based on average of best 5 laps, every week change the gear ratios, everyone has a different one, but that's more about results (not good car, bad car, good driver, bad driver) and it would still be a bunch of between race time to maintain, just to much effort for the gain.
Novices, well we really do let them run whatever they show up with at least the first week, and a $16 silver can is the only real requirement (plus fees), which we often don't enforce the first week.
I wouldn't care if they ran the radio shack and walmart stuff, but we would just be setting them up to fail. With no spare parts, they will just break the car and be gone, and not be happy about it either.
Just having a "play time" for the specators would be cool, but the dang ROAR insurance junk, pretty well kills that.
I don't think you want to get into the LOANER business, to much repair, to many kids that want to run. We did this at the Italian car show once. Destoryed four cars, and was no way to keep enough batteries charged for the line of kids wanting to drive. We charged like $2 for 2 min, and it was still a hopeless mess. But the kids had a blast. And it was just a 20 foot oval.
If you wanted to rent the car out, you would still have to charge $30-40 PLUS Parts for the hassle. If we are going to get people to contribute time to the club, I think we got other areas the manpower would be better spent. (Like track setup, take down, repair, scoring, etc.)
If you can get an adult, seriously interested, who can afford the hobby, then taking them aside and loaning them a car is great, but as a regular deal..I don't think you want to spend all your time repairing loaner cars for kids. You end up feeling like your just a babysitter, for some parents, with a little (but not enough) money.
OlsandSlow - (and Cranky), haha
09-20-2009, 02:22 PM
#153
09-20-2009, 03:00 PM
#154
Tech Regular
iTrader: (1)
You can spec the whole car but the top drivers will always be the best.
If you want to make it fair for everybody you will have to spec the whole car and not waiver from the rules one bit. Anybody caught cheating will be disqualified from the weekend's race and can not race until they can satisfy the race director that their car is legal. Run the car box stock and only allow changes that affect durability.Have a motor draw each race and turn them back in after the mains.One person can clean and maintain the motors after the race.Use 1 chasis,1 speed control,1 battery,1 wheel tire combo,1 servo,and 1 fdr. This should make everything fair and even, easy to understand, and mainly fun. Make no changes to the class and no exceptions.Everybody runs the same equipment on the cars.The only options for the racers is their choice of radios and their choice of allowable bodies(the choices should be limited to three or four bodies) for each race.
If you want to make it fair for everybody you will have to spec the whole car and not waiver from the rules one bit. Anybody caught cheating will be disqualified from the weekend's race and can not race until they can satisfy the race director that their car is legal. Run the car box stock and only allow changes that affect durability.Have a motor draw each race and turn them back in after the mains.One person can clean and maintain the motors after the race.Use 1 chasis,1 speed control,1 battery,1 wheel tire combo,1 servo,and 1 fdr. This should make everything fair and even, easy to understand, and mainly fun. Make no changes to the class and no exceptions.Everybody runs the same equipment on the cars.The only options for the racers is their choice of radios and their choice of allowable bodies(the choices should be limited to three or four bodies) for each race.
09-20-2009, 03:10 PM
#155
Using Justins car as a test mule (and if my memory is good)
* LRP SPX setting 8 (max) and timing advanced on motor: 41 MPH
* LRP SPX setting 8 with no motor timing: 29 MPH
* LRP SPX at factory setting (3) with no motor timing: 24 MPH
Justins dyno is the ticket for comparing cars, sure beats someone with a radar gun. Any car (VTA, Mini, anyting) can be checked instantly. I'm impressed.
* LRP SPX setting 8 (max) and timing advanced on motor: 41 MPH
* LRP SPX setting 8 with no motor timing: 29 MPH
* LRP SPX at factory setting (3) with no motor timing: 24 MPH
Justins dyno is the ticket for comparing cars, sure beats someone with a radar gun. Any car (VTA, Mini, anyting) can be checked instantly. I'm impressed.
09-20-2009, 03:14 PM
#156
Tech Regular
iTrader: (2)
Here goes.
On the subject of VTA.
The guys that are fast now, and blow by everyone on the straights, are using the same equipment that we started the year with. Same speedos, same motors, same batteries. Why all of a sudden, is there a huge problem with speed now? There will NEVER be parity when you have 55 different types of motors / batteries you can run. Either you get smoked on the straight, or you get smoked on the infield. The speedos are a sign of things to come. It's just a shift in technology as manufacturers are starting to understand how to get better power and efficiency out of brushless systems. This issue will continue on its course until all manufacturers have dynamic speed controls on the market, which will not be far into 2010.
Now, on to the issues. Fast guys will be fast guys. These are the guys that know how to set up the cars. If I offend someone by my statements, I apologize before hand. Some of the racers getting lapped 4 times a race might need to look at car set up. I have seen more than 1 car that has been lapped multiple times, driving the wrong way on the track after a total loss of traction in the rear end. Loss of traction on a slow corner, not a high speed sweeper. That is nothing more than car setup and doing so, EACH TIME, will net you at the very LEAST 10 seconds. 10 seconds to turn around and get back going, on a 20 - 22 second lap, that's a half a lap lost, due to nothing more than bad setup on a car, not dynamic motor bajillion MPH straightaway speed. Each time you stick a pipe and have to be marshalled is 6 - 10 seconds to get back to full speed, if the marshall doesn't have to wait for traffic. Another 1/3 lap behind. Do that 4 times in 8 minutes and you are 2 laps behind. Ronnie said in an earlier post about speed and such pertaining to the problems of VTA. Ronnie beat everyone in VTA one weekend, myself and Jolley included. Ronnie had his car working that weekend and drove a wonderful race. I couldn't catch him. I dyno'd my VTA and it maxed at 34mph. There is no way my car will ever hit that speed short of a 200+ ft straight (nitro guys would love that). I just get a bit of pull down the back straight. My car is set up so that on the infield, I don't washout and am able to hold my line. I try to drive lines that maximize the time I get to spend on throttle. Off throttle entering the corner, accelerate at the mid point apex to full throttle coming out of the corner. That is where you generate speed. Not down the straight.
Anyone is more than welcome to come to my pit space and ask for any help. I will do my best to help set up cars / motors / speedos to the best of my ability. I love to race. I love to help the new guys in the class. VTA setup of a chassis is paramount to any one thing you can do. A good set up chassis with a moderate powerplant will beat a poorly set up chassis with a John Force motor, driver skill being equal.
Forcing everyone to buy new equipment is a bad choice to make the class more competitive. "Tracks should not dictate which motor combination a racer should choose." From the VTA ruleset. I am in agreement for a split class Expert and Sportsman. It was discussed today that the possibility of running both at the same time. You would just be racing against others in your class designation. Much like the Can-Am series I believe? With the prototype cars, GT1, and GT2 cars. Might be a nightmare for the annoucer, but who cares what Donnie feels like anyway right?
He's a good MC and can handle the pressure.
I want to see the hobby grow. I want to see new people come into the hobby and have as much fun as I have had the past 20 years.
Here is another suggestion.
To the hobby shop owners when someone comes in... Talk to them about the MSRA. Tell them what kind of racing we do, classes and all. Help guide purchases not to hobby grade cars, but something of substance that might be upgraded in the future and be competitive.
Do like what Nashville does, and have novice running VTA type cars. Just a whole lot slower. When the novice feels ready to advance and get a new powerplant, step up to VTA sportsman, and when and if they get fast enough move to Expert or Touring Car, all with the same chassis.
We need, as a whole, to increase exposure of RC racing. Justin mentioned today about a large car show in Jonesboro. Might be of interest to look into scheduling something for a road trip there next year. I remember we had huge racing crowds during the car shows in which we did RC events in Birmingham. During something like this with the limited time involved and travel / set up time, we might consider only running a few classes.
What is the price of getting a track mentioned in the RC Car magazines?
Back to rule changes...
2010
Encourage novice participation, and encourage VTA type bodies and chassis.
17.5 class / 13.5 class
VTA Expert / Sportsman designations both run at the same time
Nitro Expert and Sportsman if we have the numbers
Mini class
VTA cup awarded
Mini cup awarded
Work with other onroad tracks to reduce the number of race day conflicts. More participation at other onroad tracks other than the ones in Memphis
On race day.
Promptly start at 1230 for a round of qualifying. Followed by 1hr of open practice, followed by a second round of qualifying, followed by a 15min break, then mains.
Ill post more when I think of it.
On the subject of VTA.
The guys that are fast now, and blow by everyone on the straights, are using the same equipment that we started the year with. Same speedos, same motors, same batteries. Why all of a sudden, is there a huge problem with speed now? There will NEVER be parity when you have 55 different types of motors / batteries you can run. Either you get smoked on the straight, or you get smoked on the infield. The speedos are a sign of things to come. It's just a shift in technology as manufacturers are starting to understand how to get better power and efficiency out of brushless systems. This issue will continue on its course until all manufacturers have dynamic speed controls on the market, which will not be far into 2010.
Now, on to the issues. Fast guys will be fast guys. These are the guys that know how to set up the cars. If I offend someone by my statements, I apologize before hand. Some of the racers getting lapped 4 times a race might need to look at car set up. I have seen more than 1 car that has been lapped multiple times, driving the wrong way on the track after a total loss of traction in the rear end. Loss of traction on a slow corner, not a high speed sweeper. That is nothing more than car setup and doing so, EACH TIME, will net you at the very LEAST 10 seconds. 10 seconds to turn around and get back going, on a 20 - 22 second lap, that's a half a lap lost, due to nothing more than bad setup on a car, not dynamic motor bajillion MPH straightaway speed. Each time you stick a pipe and have to be marshalled is 6 - 10 seconds to get back to full speed, if the marshall doesn't have to wait for traffic. Another 1/3 lap behind. Do that 4 times in 8 minutes and you are 2 laps behind. Ronnie said in an earlier post about speed and such pertaining to the problems of VTA. Ronnie beat everyone in VTA one weekend, myself and Jolley included. Ronnie had his car working that weekend and drove a wonderful race. I couldn't catch him. I dyno'd my VTA and it maxed at 34mph. There is no way my car will ever hit that speed short of a 200+ ft straight (nitro guys would love that). I just get a bit of pull down the back straight. My car is set up so that on the infield, I don't washout and am able to hold my line. I try to drive lines that maximize the time I get to spend on throttle. Off throttle entering the corner, accelerate at the mid point apex to full throttle coming out of the corner. That is where you generate speed. Not down the straight.
Anyone is more than welcome to come to my pit space and ask for any help. I will do my best to help set up cars / motors / speedos to the best of my ability. I love to race. I love to help the new guys in the class. VTA setup of a chassis is paramount to any one thing you can do. A good set up chassis with a moderate powerplant will beat a poorly set up chassis with a John Force motor, driver skill being equal.
Forcing everyone to buy new equipment is a bad choice to make the class more competitive. "Tracks should not dictate which motor combination a racer should choose." From the VTA ruleset. I am in agreement for a split class Expert and Sportsman. It was discussed today that the possibility of running both at the same time. You would just be racing against others in your class designation. Much like the Can-Am series I believe? With the prototype cars, GT1, and GT2 cars. Might be a nightmare for the annoucer, but who cares what Donnie feels like anyway right?
He's a good MC and can handle the pressure.I want to see the hobby grow. I want to see new people come into the hobby and have as much fun as I have had the past 20 years.
Here is another suggestion.
To the hobby shop owners when someone comes in... Talk to them about the MSRA. Tell them what kind of racing we do, classes and all. Help guide purchases not to hobby grade cars, but something of substance that might be upgraded in the future and be competitive.
Do like what Nashville does, and have novice running VTA type cars. Just a whole lot slower. When the novice feels ready to advance and get a new powerplant, step up to VTA sportsman, and when and if they get fast enough move to Expert or Touring Car, all with the same chassis.
We need, as a whole, to increase exposure of RC racing. Justin mentioned today about a large car show in Jonesboro. Might be of interest to look into scheduling something for a road trip there next year. I remember we had huge racing crowds during the car shows in which we did RC events in Birmingham. During something like this with the limited time involved and travel / set up time, we might consider only running a few classes.
What is the price of getting a track mentioned in the RC Car magazines?
Back to rule changes...
2010
Encourage novice participation, and encourage VTA type bodies and chassis.
17.5 class / 13.5 class
VTA Expert / Sportsman designations both run at the same time
Nitro Expert and Sportsman if we have the numbers
Mini class
VTA cup awarded
Mini cup awarded
Work with other onroad tracks to reduce the number of race day conflicts. More participation at other onroad tracks other than the ones in Memphis
On race day.
Promptly start at 1230 for a round of qualifying. Followed by 1hr of open practice, followed by a second round of qualifying, followed by a 15min break, then mains.
Ill post more when I think of it.
09-20-2009, 03:17 PM
#157
Looks like splitting the class (VTA) might be the way to go. As was suggested at the "round table discussion (rain)" :
Expert (none of us are pros...): USVTA rules, 21.5 Novak, 2 cell lipo,and ANY speed control.
Sportsman: USVTA rules, non-adjustable speed control using any motor/battery combination under USVTA rules.
Hope I got that right.
Expert (none of us are pros...): USVTA rules, 21.5 Novak, 2 cell lipo,and ANY speed control.
Sportsman: USVTA rules, non-adjustable speed control using any motor/battery combination under USVTA rules.
Hope I got that right.
09-20-2009, 03:22 PM
#158
2010 Suggestions
Just remember that with all these suggestions about rules and limits comes the task of teching to make sure they are followed. Who is committing their time to do this each and every race? How many times this year has MSRA actually checked to see that everyone is complying with the gear ratios set for their motor/battery combo?
You can hope that everyone will play by the rules but be realistic because you know someone is always going to push those rules. I remember when the IGT's got started here. People were already taking their STR 150cc tanks and dropping them in the IGT before the IGT2 with larger tanks came out. Why not push the rules, no one is going to look or say anything anyway.
Splitting the VTAs may not be a bad option but like has been mentioned before, what fun is it running against three other cars? That is a lot of the reason we dropped out of IGT is because most people with the cars quit running them and it was maybe 3 or 4 at most showing up to race.
Phil
You can hope that everyone will play by the rules but be realistic because you know someone is always going to push those rules. I remember when the IGT's got started here. People were already taking their STR 150cc tanks and dropping them in the IGT before the IGT2 with larger tanks came out. Why not push the rules, no one is going to look or say anything anyway.
Splitting the VTAs may not be a bad option but like has been mentioned before, what fun is it running against three other cars? That is a lot of the reason we dropped out of IGT is because most people with the cars quit running them and it was maybe 3 or 4 at most showing up to race.
Phil
Help me out here. I'm seeing two things that most agree on.
Parity or equalization of the class and the theme "more racers the merrier".
Nobody seems to be beefing about another racer's corner speed or driver skill. It's the difference it top speed. I just re-read the USAVTA (or whatever) rules and realized that they are, indeed fuzzy. Teching the cars on a club level most likely will not happen on a regular basis. Let's scratch the rental thoughts too, Ralph, woohoo,, those were half-baked ideas. But there's gotta be a FAST way to decide if a racer is pushing the rules too far. Pace car is the wrong terminology. How 'bout the club vote on a vintage car to be the standard in top speed? Club member Elmo has a problem with Ron's car being too fast, send 'em both down the longest straight. If Ron's car is faster, tell Ron to sit this one out or slow it down. Quick and easy and fair.
Course I'm still in with radar. One wrong zap and the bad guy goes to the penalty box. If it's me, so be it. The rules will be very public.
Outside of Lamont (you be quiet guy, I like racing with you!) most everyone wants a combined class and a trailer full of racers. I've boored you enough, just re-read Dr. Phil's
2nd paragraph again. IGT class has gone the way of the SST's and VTA will too, if we don't get a handle on it in Memphis. I love the class almost a much as nitro and I really appreciate whoever opened the thread on helping the class grow.
You guys have all the experience and I'll be looking to you for leadership. Take my 2 cents lightly, as a lot of my thoughts are certainly not in concrete.
Except for one. If we, as a club, want a class that has equal top speed among all racers, the method of checking that speed will have to be so fast and easy that a person will be able to do it almost as an afterthought.
Hope to cya on the stand, Ron.
09-20-2009, 03:23 PM
#159
Tech Regular
iTrader: (2)
Expert is just USVTA any motor / battery that is legal under the rules, no restrictions on dynamic timing.
Sportsman is USVTA any motor / battery no dynamic timing modes allowed (speedos are still legal, just dont use the functions, allows to move up when they are comfortable) 25mph dyno speed limit, if teched.
Novice would be USVTA bodies (encouraged with other bodies being legal) with silver cans / Lipo / 6c Nimh, Mini coopers allowed.
Sportsman is USVTA any motor / battery no dynamic timing modes allowed (speedos are still legal, just dont use the functions, allows to move up when they are comfortable) 25mph dyno speed limit, if teched.
Novice would be USVTA bodies (encouraged with other bodies being legal) with silver cans / Lipo / 6c Nimh, Mini coopers allowed.
09-20-2009, 03:29 PM
#160
Funny thing about this whole conversation is that if everyone followed the VTA rules to the letter, this whole debate wouldn't be taking place. I say this because we here in Dallas at my carpet track ran VTA rules cars for a while. If all the cars, regardless of chassis manufacturer, followed the motor, battery, and gearing rules, the cars were about as close to even as you can possible get. The good drivers will always be at the top of the class just due to their excellent driving skills (no way around that). However, they weren't blowing away the field (winning by multiple laps) over the above average drivers due to having superior cars, batteries, or ESC/motors. However, what killed the class in my area were the guys that wanted to "stretch/bend" the rules because they could not win all the time. Instead of working on driving and setting their cars up better, they wanted to try to out-power/muscle their way to the top because that is how they do it in the other classes that they run. It is these people that 1) take the fun out of racing and 2) kill fun and competitive classes because they have to win all the time (don't like to follow the rules).
You guys should go back to running the rules of the VTA class without all this making sub-classes within VTA. Either make everyone follow the rules with no exceptions or make the non-comformers run the classes in which their equipment fits to preserve the integrity of the "spec" class. No one is forcing these "faster" guys to run the class but if they are going to run it (spec, VTA, or any class with specific rules), they either conform or not race that class at all. This is just my perspective on this and is not meant to upset anyone.
Juan
You guys should go back to running the rules of the VTA class without all this making sub-classes within VTA. Either make everyone follow the rules with no exceptions or make the non-comformers run the classes in which their equipment fits to preserve the integrity of the "spec" class. No one is forcing these "faster" guys to run the class but if they are going to run it (spec, VTA, or any class with specific rules), they either conform or not race that class at all. This is just my perspective on this and is not meant to upset anyone.
Juan
09-20-2009, 03:31 PM
#161
Yeah, like Dondor said.
And the dyno would be an excellent way of checking (or comparing) cars. No radar gun is needed. So easy even I could do it!!!!!!!
And the dyno would be an excellent way of checking (or comparing) cars. No radar gun is needed. So easy even I could do it!!!!!!!
09-20-2009, 03:50 PM
#162
you hack me and ill put big spinny things on my rims like the old spy movies and cut your tires down as you pass me for the second time, install an oil slick doohicky like the videogame spy hunter to make you slide all the way around the track.
THEN ill have a bomb dropper as you try and play catch up again just to dismay you in trying to get around me again.
There is NOTHING in the rules that says I can't do these things.
THEN ill have a bomb dropper as you try and play catch up again just to dismay you in trying to get around me again.
There is NOTHING in the rules that says I can't do these things.
I got my Camaro running at eight this morning, get ready for some off-road hacking action.
09-20-2009, 03:52 PM
#163
A couple question before I start my spill and suggestions. Am I wrong, but was the whole intention of allowing the black can motors in the VTA class to allow the guys that had them from last season to run in the class? And was it not the intent of MSRA to have these black can cars a bit slower than the true USVTA cars to make the drivers want to swap over to USVTA rules eventually. Either when they got the money budgeted or they just made their mind up that they was ready for some good gear.
my car in race gearing was 27 mph lrp TC spec can go faster
We can get over 30 mph out of jessee's GTB, but race gearing was 27 mph
Justins car in race gearing and settings was 27-28 mph
We bought some parts for the dyno at the hobby shop. So we should have revision B going by the next time we hit Memphis
Whats up Three u didn't even notice the paint job on the dyno. Guess we will have to get the 2 white stripes painted on it before it hits you for what we were going for.
I HAVE ONE QUESTION ALSO FOR ALL THE VTA RACERS. WHAT IS YOUR INTENTION OF THIS CLASS? ARE YOU IN IT JUST FOR SHITS AND GIGGLES, BUT IF YOU HAPPEN TO IMPROVE YOUR SKILL THATS COOL. OR DO YOU LOOK IT AS A STEPPING STONE CLASS TO BUILD AND REFINE YOUR SKILLS SO AT A LATER POINT YOU CAN ADVANCE TO THE NEXT LEVEL WHILE HAVING FUN?
NOT TRYING TO MAKE ANY CUT AT ANYONE ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE HERE FOR, BUT IT IS GOOD TO KNOW WHERE EVERYONE STANDS FOR THEIR EXPECTATIONS OF THE CLASS.
GREAT TALK WITH EVERYONE TODAY I THINK WE HAD ALL SKILL LEVELS THERE AND GOT GREAT FEEDBACK FROM EVERYONE THAT WAS THERE
Jlock all the cars in question on the speed issue are 100% USVTA legal
my car in race gearing was 27 mph lrp TC spec can go faster
We can get over 30 mph out of jessee's GTB, but race gearing was 27 mph
Justins car in race gearing and settings was 27-28 mph
We bought some parts for the dyno at the hobby shop. So we should have revision B going by the next time we hit Memphis
Whats up Three u didn't even notice the paint job on the dyno. Guess we will have to get the 2 white stripes painted on it before it hits you for what we were going for.
I HAVE ONE QUESTION ALSO FOR ALL THE VTA RACERS. WHAT IS YOUR INTENTION OF THIS CLASS? ARE YOU IN IT JUST FOR SHITS AND GIGGLES, BUT IF YOU HAPPEN TO IMPROVE YOUR SKILL THATS COOL. OR DO YOU LOOK IT AS A STEPPING STONE CLASS TO BUILD AND REFINE YOUR SKILLS SO AT A LATER POINT YOU CAN ADVANCE TO THE NEXT LEVEL WHILE HAVING FUN?
NOT TRYING TO MAKE ANY CUT AT ANYONE ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE HERE FOR, BUT IT IS GOOD TO KNOW WHERE EVERYONE STANDS FOR THEIR EXPECTATIONS OF THE CLASS.
GREAT TALK WITH EVERYONE TODAY I THINK WE HAD ALL SKILL LEVELS THERE AND GOT GREAT FEEDBACK FROM EVERYONE THAT WAS THERE
Jlock all the cars in question on the speed issue are 100% USVTA legal
09-20-2009, 03:54 PM
#164
i think we had a good meeting today we passed alot of good info and points to each other wile it was raining.
this season should be ran AS IS! next year i think vta is changing their rules. so it could kill the class if they run 1s lipo 13.5 cars. i know 4 of us will not run it(the equip will only be good for this one class).
i personaly like the idea of running 2 vta classes a:
pro(vta rules get as fast as you can with a 21.5/<5000mah lipo/hpi tires,thats it)
the other is
sportsman (slower drivers just lookin for a fun even class wheir top speed is limited and new pro speedos are not aloud or are set to normal,with a breakout rule (2laps up between you and the next and you move up to pro)
hear are some examples of our sdudies with diff cars,set ups
jessies vta gtb/21.5 5000reedy (4.5fdr)
(stock timing max mph was 24.7)(advanced motor was 27.9mph ) on the dyno with minimal drag
cliffs vta tc spec(3yrs old) 21.5/3200smc (4.44fdr)
profile #1 26.7mph (stock timing) . 28.9 (advanced timing)
my car vta SPX 21.5(old) 4300tp(4.44fdr)
profile #1 (stock timing ) 24.3 profile #8(with advanced motor) 41mph
thomas vta tenkin rs 21.5 not shure on batt (4.21fdr i think)
normal timing no boost 27mph, with boost 37mph
thomas's TC did over 42mph
so did steve's
we will be redoing the rolers and sensor so it can read up to 67mph
it only reads up to 41-43mph now wilt alot of viberation
we got it though
this season should be ran AS IS! next year i think vta is changing their rules. so it could kill the class if they run 1s lipo 13.5 cars. i know 4 of us will not run it(the equip will only be good for this one class).
i personaly like the idea of running 2 vta classes a:
pro(vta rules get as fast as you can with a 21.5/<5000mah lipo/hpi tires,thats it)
the other is
sportsman (slower drivers just lookin for a fun even class wheir top speed is limited and new pro speedos are not aloud or are set to normal,with a breakout rule (2laps up between you and the next and you move up to pro)
hear are some examples of our sdudies with diff cars,set ups
jessies vta gtb/21.5 5000reedy (4.5fdr)
(stock timing max mph was 24.7)(advanced motor was 27.9mph ) on the dyno with minimal drag
cliffs vta tc spec(3yrs old) 21.5/3200smc (4.44fdr)
profile #1 26.7mph (stock timing) . 28.9 (advanced timing)
my car vta SPX 21.5(old) 4300tp(4.44fdr)
profile #1 (stock timing ) 24.3 profile #8(with advanced motor) 41mph
thomas vta tenkin rs 21.5 not shure on batt (4.21fdr i think)
normal timing no boost 27mph, with boost 37mph
thomas's TC did over 42mph
so did steve's
we will be redoing the rolers and sensor so it can read up to 67mph
it only reads up to 41-43mph now wilt alot of viberation
we got it though
Last edited by jlfx car audio; 09-20-2009 at 04:12 PM.
09-20-2009, 04:03 PM
#165
Tech Regular
iTrader: (2)
Let me try and explain it a different way about this perceived top speed issue.
2 cars. One runs 34mph top speed, the other 25mph.
Track layout is typical, 350 - 450 foot racing line. I will even give you 2 100 foot straights, generous considering we normally only have 1 straight where you can open up full speed.
Now understanding that the cars will not reach top speed until middle of the straight (normally its the last 1/3rd of the straight) I will give you some oversimplified math that doesn't take into account the actual speed up time. I am only going to give you straight line time gained during the straight away since that is the big beef everyone seems to have. Both cars will have the same speed on the infield since they won't ever reach top speed there due to short areas and braking.
Both cars travel the first half of the straights at the same speed... to 25mph. Now if the 34mph car can INSTANTLY go from 25 to 34mph, it will travel the last half (50 ft) of straightaway in 1 second. The 25mph car will travel the same distance in 1.35 seconds. Given ramp time of the higher speed car, this will most likely be in the advantage gained of .1 to .2 seconds.
Now let's say the fast car just averages .15 each straight. That's .3 a lap faster than the slower car, all else being equal.
Now this fast guy who's getting a whopping .3 seconds a lap on you because of his John Force Rick Hendrick powerplant, will gain after 8 minutes, are you ready for this...
6.6 seconds after 20 laps. That's on the last posted race where we had 22 second laps. Your fast guy with his Lightspeed Mellinium Falcon Kessel Run in 12 parsecs motor, outran you by a whopping 1/3 of a lap.
You didn't get beat by multiple laps due to some guy running 10mph faster than you down the straight. You lost by 6 seconds due to the 10mph difference. The other 3 1/2 laps came from using the pipes as guides to keep you from going off track, non optimum setup, or just not driving the most efficient lines around the track.
The dynamic speedos are not beating everyone like they think, its setup and driving skill.
Next memphis race i'm at, my Dynamic Speedo will be set for no timing boosts on my VTA.
2 cars. One runs 34mph top speed, the other 25mph.
Track layout is typical, 350 - 450 foot racing line. I will even give you 2 100 foot straights, generous considering we normally only have 1 straight where you can open up full speed.
Now understanding that the cars will not reach top speed until middle of the straight (normally its the last 1/3rd of the straight) I will give you some oversimplified math that doesn't take into account the actual speed up time. I am only going to give you straight line time gained during the straight away since that is the big beef everyone seems to have. Both cars will have the same speed on the infield since they won't ever reach top speed there due to short areas and braking.
Both cars travel the first half of the straights at the same speed... to 25mph. Now if the 34mph car can INSTANTLY go from 25 to 34mph, it will travel the last half (50 ft) of straightaway in 1 second. The 25mph car will travel the same distance in 1.35 seconds. Given ramp time of the higher speed car, this will most likely be in the advantage gained of .1 to .2 seconds.
Now let's say the fast car just averages .15 each straight. That's .3 a lap faster than the slower car, all else being equal.
Now this fast guy who's getting a whopping .3 seconds a lap on you because of his John Force Rick Hendrick powerplant, will gain after 8 minutes, are you ready for this...
6.6 seconds after 20 laps. That's on the last posted race where we had 22 second laps. Your fast guy with his Lightspeed Mellinium Falcon Kessel Run in 12 parsecs motor, outran you by a whopping 1/3 of a lap.
You didn't get beat by multiple laps due to some guy running 10mph faster than you down the straight. You lost by 6 seconds due to the 10mph difference. The other 3 1/2 laps came from using the pipes as guides to keep you from going off track, non optimum setup, or just not driving the most efficient lines around the track.
The dynamic speedos are not beating everyone like they think, its setup and driving skill.
Next memphis race i'm at, my Dynamic Speedo will be set for no timing boosts on my VTA.