Xray T4 18
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#542
Tech Apprentice
Its funny you should ask that question.
I have just returned from an extensive testing session today working on that EXACT issue.
My 18 spec simply would not give the same traction and lap times as my 17. Same tyres, same setup. on the track back to back.
We pulled both the entire Front and Rear shock towers complete with shocks off the 17 and swapped them out onto the 18. We also removed the tyres from the 17 and bolted them onto the 18 as well to give as similar result as possible.
Reset the ride height which was out a just smidgen, and was back on the track within 15 min.
The 18 spec now went from being 3 tenths slower than the 17 to a tenth quicker. So all in all, a 0.4 sec a lap net gain with the 18 chassis equipped with the 17 shocks and towers. This is on a med grip asphalt track.
Its going to take some convincing for me to change back !
I have just returned from an extensive testing session today working on that EXACT issue.
My 18 spec simply would not give the same traction and lap times as my 17. Same tyres, same setup. on the track back to back.
We pulled both the entire Front and Rear shock towers complete with shocks off the 17 and swapped them out onto the 18. We also removed the tyres from the 17 and bolted them onto the 18 as well to give as similar result as possible.
Reset the ride height which was out a just smidgen, and was back on the track within 15 min.
The 18 spec now went from being 3 tenths slower than the 17 to a tenth quicker. So all in all, a 0.4 sec a lap net gain with the 18 chassis equipped with the 17 shocks and towers. This is on a med grip asphalt track.
Its going to take some convincing for me to change back !
#543
Tech Apprentice
I've clarified my post. Most of the top guys are running 0.5 low and wide on FF and FR. So lower roll-centre and wider track than kit.
It seems to give more steering without making the car edgy (so more corner speed). Have a look at any setup from Olly Jefferies or Zak Finlay and they'll probably be this way.
It seems to give more steering without making the car edgy (so more corner speed). Have a look at any setup from Olly Jefferies or Zak Finlay and they'll probably be this way.
#544
“ I imagine The XRAY T4 has been most successful touring car platform" They are trying to improve for year-after-year to bring the finest and the best-performing electric touring car in the world.
#545
Tech Champion
iTrader: (4)
Its funny you should ask that question.
I have just returned from an extensive testing session today working on that EXACT issue.
My 18 spec simply would not give the same traction and lap times as my 17. Same tyres, same setup. on the track back to back.
We pulled both the entire Front and Rear shock towers complete with shocks off the 17 and swapped them out onto the 18. We also removed the tyres from the 17 and bolted them onto the 18 as well to give as similar result as possible.
Reset the ride height which was out a just smidgen, and was back on the track within 15 min.
The 18 spec now went from being 3 tenths slower than the 17 to a tenth quicker. So all in all, a 0.4 sec a lap net gain with the 18 chassis equipped with the 17 shocks and towers. This is on a med grip asphalt track.
Its going to take some convincing for me to change back !
I have just returned from an extensive testing session today working on that EXACT issue.
My 18 spec simply would not give the same traction and lap times as my 17. Same tyres, same setup. on the track back to back.
We pulled both the entire Front and Rear shock towers complete with shocks off the 17 and swapped them out onto the 18. We also removed the tyres from the 17 and bolted them onto the 18 as well to give as similar result as possible.
Reset the ride height which was out a just smidgen, and was back on the track within 15 min.
The 18 spec now went from being 3 tenths slower than the 17 to a tenth quicker. So all in all, a 0.4 sec a lap net gain with the 18 chassis equipped with the 17 shocks and towers. This is on a med grip asphalt track.
Its going to take some convincing for me to change back !
So far in my testing there are a few things that need to be considered for the ULPs. However do bare in mind that the majority of my running has been with PSS (mod asphalt)
Firstly, you want to run softer oils in the ULP vs the SLP. In the SLP, i wpuld run 550 or 500 hudy oil. The ULP 450 or 400 oil is the go.
Secondly, is related to the shock gap. I've done quite a lot of running now with the ULPs and have tried various gaps to tune the PSS. On the SLPs I would use 9.5mm. For the ULPs originally set with 9mm gap, and frankly was crap, no grip, and the car felt it was too heavily damped.
Tried 8.5mm and 8mm, both of which improved the car, by softening the action.
Personally, i have now settled on 400oil with 8.5mm gap. And car is just as fast with ULP as SLP.
For std pistons, i would be looking at 400 or 350 oil to start, and work from there.
HiH
Ed
#546
Tech Apprentice
Thanks,
that's handy to know.
I do not run PSS in either car. I currently am running MM 400 oil in both sets. I will rebuild the ULP shocks with Hudy 350 (thats all I have)and try again.
Thanks for the tip.
that's handy to know.
I do not run PSS in either car. I currently am running MM 400 oil in both sets. I will rebuild the ULP shocks with Hudy 350 (thats all I have)and try again.
Thanks for the tip.
#548
I just tested run my T4 18, I was stunned to find that the differential case is not leveled and caused one edge to be scrapped. I have double checked that the bearing holders are both set to the same level position. Actually when I built the differential, I found that one side of the differential case was so loose that it couldn't hold the bearing upside down. So, I strongly believe that the smaller than normal diameter have caused the unleveled differential. Just wondered if anyone else experienced this or it's just my bad luck.
thanks
#549
How did you have the ULPs setup?
So far in my testing there are a few things that need to be considered for the ULPs. However do bare in mind that the majority of my running has been with PSS (mod asphalt)
Firstly, you want to run softer oils in the ULP vs the SLP. In the SLP, i wpuld run 550 or 500 hudy oil. The ULP 450 or 400 oil is the go.
Secondly, is related to the shock gap. I've done quite a lot of running now with the ULPs and have tried various gaps to tune the PSS. On the SLPs I would use 9.5mm. For the ULPs originally set with 9mm gap, and frankly was crap, no grip, and the car felt it was too heavily damped.
Tried 8.5mm and 8mm, both of which improved the car, by softening the action.
Personally, i have now settled on 400oil with 8.5mm gap. And car is just as fast with ULP as SLP.
For std pistons, i would be looking at 400 or 350 oil to start, and work from there.
HiH
Ed
So far in my testing there are a few things that need to be considered for the ULPs. However do bare in mind that the majority of my running has been with PSS (mod asphalt)
Firstly, you want to run softer oils in the ULP vs the SLP. In the SLP, i wpuld run 550 or 500 hudy oil. The ULP 450 or 400 oil is the go.
Secondly, is related to the shock gap. I've done quite a lot of running now with the ULPs and have tried various gaps to tune the PSS. On the SLPs I would use 9.5mm. For the ULPs originally set with 9mm gap, and frankly was crap, no grip, and the car felt it was too heavily damped.
Tried 8.5mm and 8mm, both of which improved the car, by softening the action.
Personally, i have now settled on 400oil with 8.5mm gap. And car is just as fast with ULP as SLP.
For std pistons, i would be looking at 400 or 350 oil to start, and work from there.
HiH
Ed
#550
Tech Champion
iTrader: (4)
Good q. Measure the gap from bottom of shock body to top of ball joint.
A bigger gap will put the piston higher in the shock body, which will increase pack due to the piston taking up more volume.
Its a more noticeable change with PSS, as it also affects the pistion position in relation to the insert (bigger gap means piston starts at a higher, stiffer, position).
I know 0.5mm doesnt sound like a lot.. but consider we can tune pistion hole size by 0.1mm
A bigger gap will put the piston higher in the shock body, which will increase pack due to the piston taking up more volume.
Its a more noticeable change with PSS, as it also affects the pistion position in relation to the insert (bigger gap means piston starts at a higher, stiffer, position).
I know 0.5mm doesnt sound like a lot.. but consider we can tune pistion hole size by 0.1mm
#551
Good q. Measure the gap from bottom of shock body to top of ball joint.
A bigger gap will put the piston higher in the shock body, which will increase pack due to the piston taking up more volume.
Its a more noticeable change with PSS, as it also affects the pistion position in relation to the insert (bigger gap means piston starts at a higher, stiffer, position).
I know 0.5mm doesnt sound like a lot.. but consider we can tune pistion hole size by 0.1mm
A bigger gap will put the piston higher in the shock body, which will increase pack due to the piston taking up more volume.
Its a more noticeable change with PSS, as it also affects the pistion position in relation to the insert (bigger gap means piston starts at a higher, stiffer, position).
I know 0.5mm doesnt sound like a lot.. but consider we can tune pistion hole size by 0.1mm
#552
Secondly, is related to the shock gap. I've done quite a lot of running now with the ULPs and have tried various gaps to tune the PSS. On the SLPs I would use 9.5mm. For the ULPs originally set with 9mm gap, and frankly was crap, no grip, and the car felt it was too heavily damped.
Tried 8.5mm and 8mm, both of which improved the car, by softening the action.
Personally, i have now settled on 400oil with 8.5mm gap. And car is just as fast with ULP as SLP.
Tried 8.5mm and 8mm, both of which improved the car, by softening the action.
Personally, i have now settled on 400oil with 8.5mm gap. And car is just as fast with ULP as SLP.
8.0-8.5mm is about the limit though. Be careful screwing the shaft into the eyelet too far as you damage th eyelet and also watch that you don’t get binding of the ball.
You’ll know when you’ve gone too far as it will no longer wiggle in the eyelet. Just a 1/4 turn can be the difference between bound and free.
#553
Tech Champion
iTrader: (4)
Good advice from Ed.
8.0-8.5mm is about the limit though. Be careful screwing the shaft into the eyelet too far as you damage th eyelet and also watch that you don’t get binding of the ball.
You’ll know when you’ve gone too far as it will no longer wiggle in the eyelet. Just a 1/4 turn can be the difference between bound and free.
8.0-8.5mm is about the limit though. Be careful screwing the shaft into the eyelet too far as you damage th eyelet and also watch that you don’t get binding of the ball.
You’ll know when you’ve gone too far as it will no longer wiggle in the eyelet. Just a 1/4 turn can be the difference between bound and free.
#554
Tech Apprentice
NUH... SORRY ED. doesn't work. At least not for me.
I tried your advice today and the 18 was even worse.
Car was bloody horrible. 350 oil and shafts at 8.5mm gap as suggested.
Reason.... as stated in the above post; the shaft protrudes to far into the shock bottom plastic eyelet and freezes the ball in the socket.
Anything less than 8.8mm will lock the ball up EXACTLY as stated in the post above. ( wish I had read it before I went out today..LOL)
Cant believe I didn't pick this up when I remounted them after the rebuild.
Can you explain how you got the shafts down to 8mm as mentioned.
Oh I see u cut them down... shoulda told us that in the first place....
I tried your advice today and the 18 was even worse.
Car was bloody horrible. 350 oil and shafts at 8.5mm gap as suggested.
Reason.... as stated in the above post; the shaft protrudes to far into the shock bottom plastic eyelet and freezes the ball in the socket.
Anything less than 8.8mm will lock the ball up EXACTLY as stated in the post above. ( wish I had read it before I went out today..LOL)
Cant believe I didn't pick this up when I remounted them after the rebuild.
Can you explain how you got the shafts down to 8mm as mentioned.
Oh I see u cut them down... shoulda told us that in the first place....
Last edited by Dual Fuel; 01-17-2018 at 12:05 AM.
#555
Tech Champion
iTrader: (4)
NUH... SORRY. doesn't work. I tried your advice today and the 18 was even worse.
Car was bloody horrible. 350 oil and shafts at 8.5mm gap as suggested.
Reason.... as stated above the shaft protrudes to far into the shock bottom plastic eyelet and freezes the ball in the socket.
Anything less than 8.8mm will lock the ball up EXACTLY as stated in the post above. ( wish I had read it before I went out today..LOL)
Cant believe I didn't pick this up when I remounted them after the rebuild.
Can you explain how you got the shafts down to 8mm as mentioned.
Did u grind the shaft shorter?
Car was bloody horrible. 350 oil and shafts at 8.5mm gap as suggested.
Reason.... as stated above the shaft protrudes to far into the shock bottom plastic eyelet and freezes the ball in the socket.
Anything less than 8.8mm will lock the ball up EXACTLY as stated in the post above. ( wish I had read it before I went out today..LOL)
Cant believe I didn't pick this up when I remounted them after the rebuild.
Can you explain how you got the shafts down to 8mm as mentioned.
Did u grind the shaft shorter?
But for sure need to be careful of binding up the bottom ball joint when tightening the shock bottoms, have seen that a few times before.
Also, what droop settings do you have? Im not sure why, but I have also been finding the 18 prefers less droop than the 17. 5.4/4.4 seems good