262LikesXray T4 18
07-17-2018, 03:49 AM - Wikipost
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Welcome to the XRAY T4'18 Thread & Wikipost! Here you will find some useful info, tips and tricks as well as setups that are used by several team drivers. This wikipost is a work in progress and should continue to develop over time. Feel free to add anything you feel is useful to the community!
New for 2018: Similar to 2017, the T4'18 kit comes available in the U.S. with either a Graphite chassis (Part no. XRA300024), or Aluminum Flex chassis (Part no. XRA300024A) along with all of the great features introduced last year. We recommend the Graphite chassis for starting on asphalt, and the Aluminum Flex for starting on carpet. The big changes for 2018 are much lower center of gravity, courtesy of the Ultra Low Profile (ULP) shocks/towers and narrower weight distribution by shifting the motor in towards the center-line of the car. In moving the motor closer to the center, the topdeck and layshaft bulkheads have been re-designed. Also new this year, the motor mount includes more holes which extend further toward the rear of the car to improve traction. With the new shorter shocks, the 2018 will use the same springs as previous T4 models. What's NEW at T4 2018? Convert your '17 to '18 specs with these parts: - NEW chassis plate (3 options to chose from, Graphite, Aluminum, Alum. Flex) - NEW topdeck - NEW ULP shocks (4mm shorter than 2017) - NEW ULP shock towers (4mm shorter than 2017) - NEW Motor mount (1mm narrower than 2017) - NEW Motor mount plate - NEW layshaft bulkheads - NEW 51mm ECS ES driveshafts 301145 T4'18 CHASSIS 2.2MM GRAPHITE 301199 T4'18 UPPER DECK 2.0MM GRAPHITE 302084 ULP SHOCK TOWER FRONT 3.0MM GRAPHITE 303001-O T4'18 ALU LAYSHAFT BULKHEAD RIGHT - ORANGE 303002-O T4'18 ALU MOTOR MOUNT - ORANGE 303003-O T4'18 ALU MOTOR MOUNT PLATE - ORANGE 303085 ULP SHOCK TOWER REAR 3.0MM GRAPHITE 305221 ECS (ES) DRIVE SHAFT 51MM FOR 2MM PIN - HUDY SPRING STEEL(tm) (1) 305334 ECS ES (EXTRA STRONG) DRIVE SHAFT 51MM - HUDY SPRING STEEL(tm) - SET 308043-O ULP ALU SHOCK ADJUSTABLE NUT - ORANGE (2) 308308-O ULP ALU SHOCK ABSORBER-SET - ORANGE (2) 308324 ULP ALU SHOCK BODY (2) 308334 ULP COMPOSITE SHOCK PARTS 308354-O ULP ALU SHOCK CAP-NUT WITH VENT HOLE - ORANGE (2) Tips & Tricks: Alex Hagberg's Tech Tip Tuesday articles How to mount your Protoform LTC-R Body Setting static camber How to mount weight on your chassis Part1 How to mount the rear wing on Protoform bodies Simple troubleshooting guide How to mount the battery on your chassis How to glue your front tires for CRC Black carpet with Eric Anderson Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing Exponential and RMode How to mount weight on your chassis Part2 Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing TH-Hold ULP Shock: Building the new ULP Shock w/ Zero Rebound by Dominic Quek Team driver Tim Wahl posted some very useful build tips for the T4'16 on Facebook as he worked through building a new kit. These tips will still apply on the current model. 1- Carbon Parts 2-Suspension 3-Solid Axle and Differential 4-Bulkheads & Drivetrain 5-Driveshaft (ECS & CVD) 6-Front & Rear Suspension 7-Tweak 8-Anti-Roll Bar 9-Battery Fix (OPTIONAL) 10-Bumper & Body 11-Shocks 12-Steering Center Brace: The manual indicates using a 2mm shim under the center brace when attaching to the chassis plate. The gap is actually 3mm, so a 3mm shim should be used here. Tuning Note: On Carpet we have found that adding screws or doubling up the graphite brace will make the car react quicker to steering input, & change direction faster. Raising the graphite brace off of the aluminum bulkheads by placing a shim under it on the front and rear holes will reduce response. Using the tie-rod will reduce initial response to input, but will generate more in-corner traction or 'side-bite'. Using no brace will generate even more of this 'side-bite' but all of this is at the expense of corner speed. Best to use the tie-rod or no brace only in low-traction conditions. Additionally, the center brace increases forward traction, so removing it will potentially increase wheel-spin out of low speed corners. New Graphite Hubs: Xray have recently released some additional Graphite hubs for the T4 lineup. The 4° Graphite C-Hub has been out for some time and is known to improve steering on entry, and in general makes the car turn better. This has been the go-to c-hub on asphalt for many on the Xray team, though it is not needed on high bite carpet. The Graphite rear hub tends to make the car more stable, especially on corner entry. We are still working on gathering input on the new Graphite steering block, but for the moment feel that it should improve steering response. All Graphite parts are approximately 1g lighter than the Hard or Medium options. ARS Tuning courtesy of Ed (TryHard): If you set the ARS up with no shims under either inside or outside ball positions, it actually adds toe-in under compression, at around 1° at 5.2mm ride height (how much it adds depends how much the car compresses, obviously  )Adding shims reduces the amount added (1mm under one of the links gives about 0.5°), until the link has 2mm worth of shims (1mm either side, or 2mm on one side) makes the ARS neutral. Adding more shims then turns it into reducing toe in under compression. Whilst that might sound a bit backwards, it's actually not quite as simple as it sounds. By having the links to add toe, you gain forward traction. Also consider as the car rolls, the inside wheel is in negative compression, and the outside in compression. So the inside is toe-ing out, and the outside toe-ing in, so the whole rear is then 'steering' in the direction of the turn. Obviously the inside wheel has a lot less influence than the outside as it's far less loaded, but the effect is still there. Optional & Tuning Parts to consider: XRA301146 T4'18 ALU CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6 **For very high traction** (Approx. 108g) XRA301147 T4'18 ALU FLEX CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6 **For high traction** (Approx. 93g) XRA301169 T4'18 UPPER DECK 1.6MM GRAPHITE XRA302254 Composite Steering Block - Graphite XRA302334 Aluminum C-Hub Block - Caster 0° - Orange **Only for ARS** XRA302383 Composite C-Hub Right – 4° - Graphite (ECS) **Not recommended for high traction** XRA302384 Composite C-Hub Left – 4° - Graphite (ECS) **Not recommended for high traction** XRA302711 Brass Front Lower 1-Piece Suspension Holder - Front - FF XRA302803 1.3mm Front Anti-Roll Bar XRA303360 Composite Upright 0° Outboard Toe-In - Graphite XRA303802 1.2mm Rear Anti-Roll Bar XRA305137 Steel Solid Axle Driveshaft Adapters - HUDY Spring Steel **Highly recommend** XRA305242 Composite Drive Shaft Replacement Cap 3.5mm – Orange – Strong (QTY 4) XRA305351 Aluminum Wheel Hub – Offset “-0.75mm” – Black (QTY 2) XRA305352 Aluminum Wheel Hub - Offset “+0.75mm” - Black (QTY 2) XRA306191 T4 Graphite + Aluminum Fully Adjustable Battery Holder XRA308029 ULP ALU PROGRESSIVE SHOCK SYSTEM - SET (2) **Only for asphalt** XRA308264 4S Spring-Set Progressive C=2.5-2.8 (QTY 2) XRA308276 4S Spring-Set C=2.7 (QTY 2) XRA308286 4S Spring-Set C=2.6 (QTY 2) Recent Setups: 7-Oct - Alexander Hagberg - IIC - High Traction Carpet - Mod Q2, P2 7-Oct - Craig Xavier - IIC - High Traction Carpet - SuperStock Q5, P5 
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11-07-2017, 07:16 PM
#361
11-07-2017, 08:55 PM
#362
Tech Master
iTrader: (5)
You missed a promotion opportunity 
Brass Bottom Case for HW XR10
https://teameamotorsports.com/collec...se-for-hw-xr10
Brass Bottom Case for HW XR10
https://teameamotorsports.com/collec...se-for-hw-xr10
11-08-2017, 03:45 AM
#363
By centering the servo 90 degrees to the link I get near symetrical steering throw left and right at 70%, 80%, 90% and 100% Dual Rate.
Last edited by dvaid852456; 11-08-2017 at 04:59 AM.
11-08-2017, 03:50 AM
#364
Tech Master
11-08-2017, 05:33 AM
#365
11-08-2017, 02:16 PM
#366
I always centre the servo saver at 90 degrees to the turnbuckle link and not the chassis as this gives equal throw left and right. If I centre the servo at 90 degrees vertically I always have to add more EPA on one side which throws out Dual Rate adjustments.
By centering the servo 90 degrees to the link I get near symetrical steering throw left and right at 70%, 80%, 90% and 100% Dual Rate.
By centering the servo 90 degrees to the link I get near symetrical steering throw left and right at 70%, 80%, 90% and 100% Dual Rate.
11-08-2017, 03:45 PM
#367
I always centre the servo saver at 90 degrees to the turnbuckle link and not the chassis as this gives equal throw left and right. If I centre the servo at 90 degrees vertically I always have to add more EPA on one side which throws out Dual Rate adjustments.
By centering the servo 90 degrees to the link I get near symetrical steering throw left and right at 70%, 80%, 90% and 100% Dual Rate.
By centering the servo 90 degrees to the link I get near symetrical steering throw left and right at 70%, 80%, 90% and 100% Dual Rate.
The steering plate moves horizontally, and with the saver dead vertical you get the same arc of movement in either direction.
If you mount at 90deg to the link the speed of steering will vary slightly in each direction (and at different points of steering lock) due to the fact that the link is moving in different arcs in each direction, i.e. when turning right the link move up relative to the saver as it rotates upwards first, when turning left the link moves down as the saver rotates downwards.
The issue being that the rack still moves horizontally only.
11-09-2017, 08:53 AM
#368
Never understood why people think the saver should be at 90deg to the link.
The steering plate moves horizontally, and with the saver dead vertical you get the same arc of movement in either direction.
If you mount at 90deg to the link the speed of steering will vary slightly in each direction (and at different points of steering lock) due to the fact that the link is moving in different arcs in each direction, i.e. when turning right the link move up relative to the saver as it rotates upwards first, when turning left the link moves down as the saver rotates downwards.
The issue being that the rack still moves horizontally only.
The steering plate moves horizontally, and with the saver dead vertical you get the same arc of movement in either direction.
If you mount at 90deg to the link the speed of steering will vary slightly in each direction (and at different points of steering lock) due to the fact that the link is moving in different arcs in each direction, i.e. when turning right the link move up relative to the saver as it rotates upwards first, when turning left the link moves down as the saver rotates downwards.
The issue being that the rack still moves horizontally only.
With the above settings it's fine at 100% dual rate and will give equal angle left and right but at say 80% Dual rate I never get equal steering left and right without readjusting EPA.
It is a pain as the saver hits the steering mount on my TCXX before getting to full lock. If there is another way or something I can check I'd happily not set it 90 degrees to the link.
I've always thought it seems odd that all manuals say 90 degrees to the chassis and yet it creates un-even steering lock?
11-09-2017, 04:36 PM
#369
I've always had slightly different EPA's, but never a very large difference, maybe 10 at most.
On the Xray I set max EPA to be just as the steering post touches the saver arms, then back it off.
If anyone ever uses the steering knuckles touching the C hubs then that adds a whole lot more into the equation, steering link lengths etc.
At 90deg to the chassis, the servo arm should be moving an equal amount to each side, no matter what car it's on.
11-10-2017, 01:00 AM
#370
It shouldn't create uneven lock, so there's an issue somewhere.
I've always had slightly different EPA's, but never a very large difference, maybe 10 at most.
On the Xray I set max EPA to be just as the steering post touches the saver arms, then back it off.
If anyone ever uses the steering knuckles touching the C hubs then that adds a whole lot more into the equation, steering link lengths etc.
At 90deg to the chassis, the servo arm should be moving an equal amount to each side, no matter what car it's on.
I've always had slightly different EPA's, but never a very large difference, maybe 10 at most.
On the Xray I set max EPA to be just as the steering post touches the saver arms, then back it off.
If anyone ever uses the steering knuckles touching the C hubs then that adds a whole lot more into the equation, steering link lengths etc.
At 90deg to the chassis, the servo arm should be moving an equal amount to each side, no matter what car it's on.
Everything is fine until I adjust dual rate as it throws out the end points at varying percentages?
I'll check again on my T4 tonight. I've always thought it had something to do with pushing the steering one way and pulling it the other but surely the arcs are the same as it is a circular motion from the servo???
Last edited by dvaid852456; 11-10-2017 at 01:16 AM.
11-10-2017, 02:21 AM
#371
....Everything is fine until I adjust dual rate as it throws out the end points at varying percentages?
I'll check again on my T4 tonight. I've always thought it had something to do with pushing the steering one way and pulling it the other but surely the arcs are the same as it is a circular motion from the servo???
I'll check again on my T4 tonight. I've always thought it had something to do with pushing the steering one way and pulling it the other but surely the arcs are the same as it is a circular motion from the servo???
You're correct on the second bit, the arc's taken by the servo horn will be identical no matter where it is positioned on the servo.
11-10-2017, 11:37 AM
#372
Tech Adept
iTrader: (2)
The dual rate should reduce or increase things by the same amount each side as you adjust it, no idea why it should be different each side.
You're correct on the second bit, the arc's taken by the servo horn will be identical no matter where it is positioned on the servo.
You're correct on the second bit, the arc's taken by the servo horn will be identical no matter where it is positioned on the servo.
11-10-2017, 01:35 PM
#373
(It also varies the speed in each direction)For those that still can't grasp it;
Play the following Youtube vid at 0.25 speed and you can see the piston slowing as it reaches the end.
That's effectively what you are doing by starting the links attachment point on our 'wheel' (the servo horn) closer to it's end, when the link is angled.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwphVOXmL3Q
Last edited by Skiddins; 11-10-2017 at 01:49 PM.
11-10-2017, 05:47 PM
#374
If hes running a Sanwa radio, there is a option on the radio for the servos, that either lets you run it in centered or parallel, or something like that. Regardless one will only effect the servo at center off and the other will re-adjust the endpoints as the trim is adjusted.