TeamOrion GP3700SP2 Cells
11-25-2005, 02:31 PM
#121
Originally Posted by XCrash
Wow, why has everyone skipped over the date code issue? I still like the idea, the cells and match are only as good as the date it was done. Nimh die with age, used or not.
Not sure what I was thinking, guess you guys with teams are just letting them use the crap packs and selling the good ones to us. What a load of bs. This is why I made the used car salesman anolgy earlier.
Eddieo, "they were just crazy runtime". But there was a reason you wanted to keep them and it was'nt because they were average packs as you are trying to convince me and everyone else. Voltage is based on time, longer run time lower voltage pack can outperform a hi volt low runtime pack. As far as I know your other "customer" may be a local racing buddy, rep, etc.
"All our stuff is in stock, feel free to buy it up....sold 150+ packs in 5 days....doubt we will have anything left come next week.", sounds like more salesman bs to me.......
Brian
Not sure what I was thinking, guess you guys with teams are just letting them use the crap packs and selling the good ones to us. What a load of bs. This is why I made the used car salesman anolgy earlier.
Eddieo, "they were just crazy runtime". But there was a reason you wanted to keep them and it was'nt because they were average packs as you are trying to convince me and everyone else. Voltage is based on time, longer run time lower voltage pack can outperform a hi volt low runtime pack. As far as I know your other "customer" may be a local racing buddy, rep, etc.
"All our stuff is in stock, feel free to buy it up....sold 150+ packs in 5 days....doubt we will have anything left come next week.", sounds like more salesman bs to me.......
Brian
I can tell you from first had experience, as in seeing it with my own eyes that what EddieO is telling you is absolutely true.
As for the date codes, this isn't a bad idea, except what about those stores that have the previous version of date codes? Nobody will want to buy them. People are getting WAY too hyped about the battery issue. Face it, when you buy a pack, most likely in the next few weeks or in a month or so the battery manufacturer is going to probably have tweaked their methods producing a better cell. So, either just get a pack of whats out there, or wait, and you'll keep on waiting.
Furthermore, with the date code issue, I remember a strange thing back when Sanyo coded their batches of 2000's. The "CJ" batch was the best thing anyone had seen. The batches after that were not even as good. So we started looking specifically for this date code of cells. Hype..
11-25-2005, 02:55 PM
#122
Tech Master
Yeah Sanyo used to put date codes on their cells, but they stopped in the end. the first letter was the year, 2nd letter was the month.
It is true that the IB cells haven't been legal in most of Europe - certinaly in the UK.
I haven't tried any IB's, hasn't been any point really. Although i have been happy with my GP's. It is fair to say that they do continually improve, as seems to have been the case for all the time they have been in the business.
Isn't it true to say that the IB cell (raw) is cheaper than the GP? I can't help think this is a reason that a lot of matchers have started to use it. I don't mean any offence to anyone, because it is clearly a capeable cell. However, if you had to products that both performed well, and one was cheaper.....
It is true that the IB cells haven't been legal in most of Europe - certinaly in the UK.
I haven't tried any IB's, hasn't been any point really. Although i have been happy with my GP's. It is fair to say that they do continually improve, as seems to have been the case for all the time they have been in the business.
Isn't it true to say that the IB cell (raw) is cheaper than the GP? I can't help think this is a reason that a lot of matchers have started to use it. I don't mean any offence to anyone, because it is clearly a capeable cell. However, if you had to products that both performed well, and one was cheaper.....
11-25-2005, 03:00 PM
#123
Tech Regular
How did we go from talking about battery matchers to driving skills?
Only reason I want a date on the battery is to know I am getting fresh cells, as a consumer I am paying for them afterall.........
Were did I complain once about being beat? I race some of the fastest drivers around weekly and do get beat quite a bit, but I have never complained or claimed they had an unfair advantage. I consider it quite an achievement to finish on the same lap as a national, regional, cleveland and world champ. I really dont care if I win or not, if I do the best I can and have fun is all that is important to me.
Texracer, You do not know me in any way so how could you possibly be stupid enough to think you could judge me as an idiot? You have absolutely no idea if you can beat me or not on the track, no rite to judge my driving or setup skills since you have never seen either. I race one of danny's team drivers weekly and he is a damn good driver, not sure why you would think I would'nt take him up on the challenge.
Eddieo, I can not comment on your products since I dont own any. I have had very bad luck with big battery matchers and have found a few smaller companies that do pretty good. Looking on your website I find absolutely no information on your matching process (charge rate, peak detect, cell temp, rest period, zapped, etc) or even the equipment you are using.
"All our stuff is in stock, feel free to buy it up....sold 150+ packs in 5 days....doubt we will have anything left come next week."
You know as well as I do that is 100% sales pitch. I am not willing to buy your product to find out if its good or not, if you want to send me a pack I'll try it and give an honest answer and I will return it. You can check my seller feedback here on rctech to judge me. Send me a pm if you want some info about me first.
Danny, heck ya I'll take you up on it. I race with the worldest fastest quaker weekly so it wont cost much to get a driver down here.
Honestly I think it would be fair if he had to run the p.o.s. ib3600 smc pack I payed good money for, it sucked from day one and one year old gp3300's turned .5 per lap faster than them. These were hyped by you as awesome cells, much better than gp3300's. It would have to be a heads up race and could easily be done during practice time before a normal race for us.
I can only base my oppinion on my expierence with your products. I do have a set of the newer ib3800's with the smc labels but still run my gp3700's due to faster lap times, it does make a better qualifier pack than my older gp3300's though. I dont consider that a compliment since the gp3300's are a year older.
Why no discussion of the date, you know as well as I do the batteries can sit in gp's wharehouse or on a hobby shop shelf for several months. At that point it wont matter how good the #'s are since the battery has allready degraded considerbly. I would have to believe most consumers of your products would like to see the date on the pack.....
Brian
Only reason I want a date on the battery is to know I am getting fresh cells, as a consumer I am paying for them afterall.........
Were did I complain once about being beat? I race some of the fastest drivers around weekly and do get beat quite a bit, but I have never complained or claimed they had an unfair advantage. I consider it quite an achievement to finish on the same lap as a national, regional, cleveland and world champ. I really dont care if I win or not, if I do the best I can and have fun is all that is important to me.
Texracer, You do not know me in any way so how could you possibly be stupid enough to think you could judge me as an idiot? You have absolutely no idea if you can beat me or not on the track, no rite to judge my driving or setup skills since you have never seen either. I race one of danny's team drivers weekly and he is a damn good driver, not sure why you would think I would'nt take him up on the challenge.
Eddieo, I can not comment on your products since I dont own any. I have had very bad luck with big battery matchers and have found a few smaller companies that do pretty good. Looking on your website I find absolutely no information on your matching process (charge rate, peak detect, cell temp, rest period, zapped, etc) or even the equipment you are using.
"All our stuff is in stock, feel free to buy it up....sold 150+ packs in 5 days....doubt we will have anything left come next week."
You know as well as I do that is 100% sales pitch. I am not willing to buy your product to find out if its good or not, if you want to send me a pack I'll try it and give an honest answer and I will return it. You can check my seller feedback here on rctech to judge me. Send me a pm if you want some info about me first.
Danny, heck ya I'll take you up on it. I race with the worldest fastest quaker weekly so it wont cost much to get a driver down here.
Honestly I think it would be fair if he had to run the p.o.s. ib3600 smc pack I payed good money for, it sucked from day one and one year old gp3300's turned .5 per lap faster than them. These were hyped by you as awesome cells, much better than gp3300's. It would have to be a heads up race and could easily be done during practice time before a normal race for us.
I can only base my oppinion on my expierence with your products. I do have a set of the newer ib3800's with the smc labels but still run my gp3700's due to faster lap times, it does make a better qualifier pack than my older gp3300's though. I dont consider that a compliment since the gp3300's are a year older.
Why no discussion of the date, you know as well as I do the batteries can sit in gp's wharehouse or on a hobby shop shelf for several months. At that point it wont matter how good the #'s are since the battery has allready degraded considerbly. I would have to believe most consumers of your products would like to see the date on the pack.....
Brian
11-25-2005, 03:01 PM
#125
The price of the cell has nothing to do with why the cell is being matched and used by most racers. Track performance is always what dictates the cell of choice.
I'm unfortunately not able to attend the Cleveland race but I believe most the racers in the A mains will be running IB3800s. The racers at these big races will use what they feel will give them the edge.
I'm unfortunately not able to attend the Cleveland race but I believe most the racers in the A mains will be running IB3800s. The racers at these big races will use what they feel will give them the edge.
11-25-2005, 03:11 PM
#126
Originally Posted by XCrash
How did we go from talking about battery matchers to driving skills?
Only reason I want a date on the battery is to know I am getting fresh cells, as a consumer I am paying for them afterall.........
Were did I complain once about being beat? I race some of the fastest drivers around weekly and do get beat quite a bit, but I have never complained or claimed they had an unfair advantage. I consider it quite an achievement to finish on the same lap as a national, regional, cleveland and world champ. I really dont care if I win or not, if I do the best I can and have fun is all that is important to me.
Texracer, You do not know me in any way so how could you possibly be stupid enough to think you could judge me as an idiot? You have absolutely no idea if you can beat me or not on the track, no rite to judge my driving or setup skills since you have never seen either. I race one of danny's team drivers weekly and he is a damn good driver, not sure why you would think I would'nt take him up on the challenge.
Eddieo, I can not comment on your products since I dont own any. I have had very bad luck with big battery matchers and have found a few smaller companies that do pretty good. Looking on your website I find absolutely no information on your matching process (charge rate, peak detect, cell temp, rest period, zapped, etc) or even the equipment you are using.
"All our stuff is in stock, feel free to buy it up....sold 150+ packs in 5 days....doubt we will have anything left come next week."
You know as well as I do that is 100% sales pitch. I am not willing to buy your product to find out if its good or not, if you want to send me a pack I'll try it and give an honest answer and I will return it. You can check my seller feedback here on rctech to judge me. Send me a pm if you want some info about me first.
Danny, heck ya I'll take you up on it. I race with the worldest fastest quaker weekly so it wont cost much to get a driver down here.
Honestly I think it would be fair if he had to run the p.o.s. ib3600 smc pack I payed good money for, it sucked from day one and one year old gp3300's turned .5 per lap faster than them. These were hyped by you as awesome cells, much better than gp3300's. It would have to be a heads up race and could easily be done during practice time before a normal race for us.
I can only base my oppinion on my expierence with your products. I do have a set of the newer ib3800's with the smc labels but still run my gp3700's due to faster lap times, it does make a better qualifier pack than my older gp3300's though. I dont consider that a compliment since the gp3300's are a year older.
Why no discussion of the date, you know as well as I do the batteries can sit in gp's wharehouse or on a hobby shop shelf for several months. At that point it wont matter how good the #'s are since the battery has allready degraded considerbly. I would have to believe most consumers of your products would like to see the date on the pack.....
Brian
Only reason I want a date on the battery is to know I am getting fresh cells, as a consumer I am paying for them afterall.........
Were did I complain once about being beat? I race some of the fastest drivers around weekly and do get beat quite a bit, but I have never complained or claimed they had an unfair advantage. I consider it quite an achievement to finish on the same lap as a national, regional, cleveland and world champ. I really dont care if I win or not, if I do the best I can and have fun is all that is important to me.
Texracer, You do not know me in any way so how could you possibly be stupid enough to think you could judge me as an idiot? You have absolutely no idea if you can beat me or not on the track, no rite to judge my driving or setup skills since you have never seen either. I race one of danny's team drivers weekly and he is a damn good driver, not sure why you would think I would'nt take him up on the challenge.
Eddieo, I can not comment on your products since I dont own any. I have had very bad luck with big battery matchers and have found a few smaller companies that do pretty good. Looking on your website I find absolutely no information on your matching process (charge rate, peak detect, cell temp, rest period, zapped, etc) or even the equipment you are using.
"All our stuff is in stock, feel free to buy it up....sold 150+ packs in 5 days....doubt we will have anything left come next week."
You know as well as I do that is 100% sales pitch. I am not willing to buy your product to find out if its good or not, if you want to send me a pack I'll try it and give an honest answer and I will return it. You can check my seller feedback here on rctech to judge me. Send me a pm if you want some info about me first.
Danny, heck ya I'll take you up on it. I race with the worldest fastest quaker weekly so it wont cost much to get a driver down here.
Honestly I think it would be fair if he had to run the p.o.s. ib3600 smc pack I payed good money for, it sucked from day one and one year old gp3300's turned .5 per lap faster than them. These were hyped by you as awesome cells, much better than gp3300's. It would have to be a heads up race and could easily be done during practice time before a normal race for us.
I can only base my oppinion on my expierence with your products. I do have a set of the newer ib3800's with the smc labels but still run my gp3700's due to faster lap times, it does make a better qualifier pack than my older gp3300's though. I dont consider that a compliment since the gp3300's are a year older.
Why no discussion of the date, you know as well as I do the batteries can sit in gp's wharehouse or on a hobby shop shelf for several months. At that point it wont matter how good the #'s are since the battery has allready degraded considerbly. I would have to believe most consumers of your products would like to see the date on the pack.....
Brian
This whole thing is about you thinking that Team guys have packs that no one else can obtain and you insinuate that we only sell the packs that aren't good enough for Team guys. Your entitled to your opinion but I can also explain what we do and don't do.
11-25-2005, 03:18 PM
#127
You will not find any "old" cells out there, unless you get them from a fellow racer. But you may find them in LHS because people are too afraid to buy something because it might be out-dated in another week.
These guys are turning over cells so fast, there isn't anything to sit around.
But I am curious to know about your statement that cells degrade as they sit.. Why? Do you have any concrete evidence of this? I personally don't know one way or the other. I thought they 'degraded' from being USED though...
Team brOOd has their cells mathed by a very reputable matcher.
And as I said, I have been up there and seen the thousands of cells come in and go right back out.
These guys are turning over cells so fast, there isn't anything to sit around.
But I am curious to know about your statement that cells degrade as they sit.. Why? Do you have any concrete evidence of this? I personally don't know one way or the other. I thought they 'degraded' from being USED though...
Team brOOd has their cells mathed by a very reputable matcher.
And as I said, I have been up there and seen the thousands of cells come in and go right back out.
11-25-2005, 03:38 PM
#128
Danny/SMC- I know that the GP3300's that I got in october of 2004 cycle out with better Voltage and IR's today than new. I know that this is inpart because of them loosing 45-60 second of run time since I keep them dead shorted. I only run stock and 19t so runtime is no issue so I only care about voltage and IR. I've heard from more than one person that IB3800 cannot be dead shorted and should not be run more than once in a day. Durabilaty would be a big sticking point for me and I would like to know how long do IB3800 stay good for??? If properly maintained??? and on that note what is the proper maintnance???
I'm trying to gather as much info as I can before dropping $$$$ on new cells. I've really liked what GP has offered for the last 3 years or so, and am just affraid that IB is like Panasonic was back in the day (alway trying to compete with Sanyo and when they'd finally get a good cell Sanyo would make something better)
Roly
I'm trying to gather as much info as I can before dropping $$$$ on new cells. I've really liked what GP has offered for the last 3 years or so, and am just affraid that IB is like Panasonic was back in the day (alway trying to compete with Sanyo and when they'd finally get a good cell Sanyo would make something better)
Roly
11-25-2005, 03:40 PM
#129
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
What do you mean by IAW ?
Your Pitbull is set at .03 for a six cell pack ?
Your Pitbull is set at .03 for a six cell pack ?
I've set them both the LRP at 20mv and pitbull at .02v and discharge them at 20 amps, they don't seem to get center of the sun hot anymore
First let me say the on track performance of the IB3800 are wonderful indeed. Danny everytime someone post anything with the name Orion, you go on a rampage taking a dump on Orion, I have yet to read anything where Orion say anything remotely bad about your company SMC. Orion just happen have the best 2 touring car drivers in the world "Hara and Rheniard" so that doesn't mean 3700 cells are better. Professionalism is a friend that won't betray you. I still like 3800 cells.
11-25-2005, 03:52 PM
#130
Jeesh, maybe you all should get a 5.5 GTB, and not worry about the batteries...
Ya might have more fun. Besides, MOST people can't exploit the power of a good mod anyway (I can, though).....
I personally buy bulk cells for cheap, and since they apperently degrade so fast, I question why any average shmo racer even needs a matched pack given the performance of the new cells and the brushless revolution.
Heck, I make 5 min in mod outdoors, using 2600 mah out of my old gp 3300.
Interesting and informative thread, though. Remember::: racing should be fun!!!!!!!
Ya might have more fun. Besides, MOST people can't exploit the power of a good mod anyway (I can, though).....
I personally buy bulk cells for cheap, and since they apperently degrade so fast, I question why any average shmo racer even needs a matched pack given the performance of the new cells and the brushless revolution.
Heck, I make 5 min in mod outdoors, using 2600 mah out of my old gp 3300.
Interesting and informative thread, though. Remember::: racing should be fun!!!!!!!
11-25-2005, 03:52 PM
#131
Originally Posted by PaintingRoly
Danny/SMC- I know that the GP3300's that I got in october of 2004 cycle out with better Voltage and IR's today than new. I know that this is inpart because of them loosing 45-60 second of run time since I keep them dead shorted. I only run stock and 19t so runtime is no issue so I only care about voltage and IR. I've heard from more than one person that IB3800 cannot be dead shorted and should not be run more than once in a day. Durabilaty would be a big sticking point for me and I would like to know how long do IB3800 stay good for??? If properly maintained??? and on that note what is the proper maintnance???
I'm trying to gather as much info as I can before dropping $$$$ on new cells. I've really liked what GP has offered for the last 3 years or so, and am just affraid that IB is like Panasonic was back in the day (alway trying to compete with Sanyo and when they'd finally get a good cell Sanyo would make something better)
Roly
I'm trying to gather as much info as I can before dropping $$$$ on new cells. I've really liked what GP has offered for the last 3 years or so, and am just affraid that IB is like Panasonic was back in the day (alway trying to compete with Sanyo and when they'd finally get a good cell Sanyo would make something better)
Roly
You shouldn't deadshort the IB3800s but if you follow what we reccomend you should get allot of good cycles out of them.
We use a 6 amp charge with .02 peak detect. After your run discharge the pack down to .90 per cell using a 30 - 35 amp discharge and leave alone.
Next time you want to run your pack place it on a resistor only tray. I really like the Integy 0-30. Leave it on the tray for 1 minute then take it off and start charging it.
If your not going to race for 3 weeks or more put 500 seconds of charge back into the pack this will help keep maximum runtime.
11-25-2005, 04:01 PM
#132
Originally Posted by dawgmeat
" IN ACCORDANCE WITH"
I've set them both the LRP at 20mv and pitbull at .02v and discharge them at 20 amps, they don't seem to get center of the sun hot anymore
First let me say the on track performance of the IB3800 are wonderful indeed. Danny everytime someone post anything with the name Orion, you go on a rampage taking a dump on Orion, I have yet to read anything where Orion say anything remotely bad about your company SMC. Orion just happen have the best 2 touring car drivers in the world "Hara and Rheniard" so that doesn't mean 3700 cells are better. Professionalism is a friend that won't betray you. I still like 3800 cells.
I've set them both the LRP at 20mv and pitbull at .02v and discharge them at 20 amps, they don't seem to get center of the sun hot anymore
First let me say the on track performance of the IB3800 are wonderful indeed. Danny everytime someone post anything with the name Orion, you go on a rampage taking a dump on Orion, I have yet to read anything where Orion say anything remotely bad about your company SMC. Orion just happen have the best 2 touring car drivers in the world "Hara and Rheniard" so that doesn't mean 3700 cells are better. Professionalism is a friend that won't betray you. I still like 3800 cells.
Yes it may seem like i'm on a rampage against Orion but in fact I have allot of respect for there motor program and i'm sure they know how to match cells but they just keep saying how much GP is better and that I can't agree with. The next big shootout will be Snowbirds.
There is allot of politics involved and I have so much more info on what really is going on but I decide not to mention it as it would be bad taste on my part. Guess I just like to defend my point of view and like to stand up for what I beleive in.
11-25-2005, 04:08 PM
#133
Originally Posted by lonepalm4
Jeesh, maybe you all should get a 5.5 GTB, and not worry about the batteries...
Ya might have more fun. Besides, MOST people can't exploit the power of a good mod anyway (I can, though).....
I personally buy bulk cells for cheap, and since they apperently degrade so fast, I question why any average shmo racer even needs a matched pack given the performance of the new cells and the brushless revolution.
Heck, I make 5 min in mod outdoors, using 2600 mah out of my old gp 3300.
Interesting and informative thread, though. Remember::: racing should be fun!!!!!!!
Ya might have more fun. Besides, MOST people can't exploit the power of a good mod anyway (I can, though).....
I personally buy bulk cells for cheap, and since they apperently degrade so fast, I question why any average shmo racer even needs a matched pack given the performance of the new cells and the brushless revolution.
Heck, I make 5 min in mod outdoors, using 2600 mah out of my old gp 3300.
Interesting and informative thread, though. Remember::: racing should be fun!!!!!!!
11-25-2005, 04:20 PM
#134
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC
Batteries do make a difference in brushless. A racer we know that races offroad with a brushless told us that there is a big jump that is almost impossible to jump when he uses GPs and when he uses IBs he can jump it for 5-6 laps. So batteries do make a difference in brushless. One of our oval racers lent an IB pack to a racer who uses a brushless and GP and he picked up a full lap in a 5 minute oval run.
Try "A racer we know that races offroad with a brushless told us that there is a big jump that is almost impossible to jump with one pack but with his other pack he can jump it for 5-6 laps. So batteries do make a difference in brushless. One of our oval racers lent a pack to a racer who uses a brushless and he picked up a full lap in a 5 minute oval run chaning nothing but his battery pack"
11-25-2005, 04:33 PM
#135
Tech Regular
Danny, other than quoting someone what "I" said was....
-------------------------
"I will be glad to sell you the packs we take back from our drivers attending this race."
So we can purchase good cells from you but only after they are used for several runs?
Battery matchers abuse your cells then sell them to you used. By the time they sit on a shelf between matcher, team did'nt use them and distributor they would of been better performers untouched and simply run as is.
Why do most battery matchers sound like used car salesmen? Promise the world and deliver junk, sound familular!
---------------------------------------
I did contact you on the 3600's, after supplying a lot of information you wanted to replace two cells in one pack that were low on runtime. You sent two cells out, I replaced the cells in the pack and it still sucked as did the other one. The much older gp3300's allways did out perform them on the track. I pm'ed you after that and never heard anything back. The cells were 1.60 and 1.69 with simular runtimes, 1.60 pack had bad cells in it according to your analyizing the #'s and both performed the same on the discharger and track.
Brian
-------------------------
"I will be glad to sell you the packs we take back from our drivers attending this race."
So we can purchase good cells from you but only after they are used for several runs?
Battery matchers abuse your cells then sell them to you used. By the time they sit on a shelf between matcher, team did'nt use them and distributor they would of been better performers untouched and simply run as is.
Why do most battery matchers sound like used car salesmen? Promise the world and deliver junk, sound familular!
---------------------------------------
I did contact you on the 3600's, after supplying a lot of information you wanted to replace two cells in one pack that were low on runtime. You sent two cells out, I replaced the cells in the pack and it still sucked as did the other one. The much older gp3300's allways did out perform them on the track. I pm'ed you after that and never heard anything back. The cells were 1.60 and 1.69 with simular runtimes, 1.60 pack had bad cells in it according to your analyizing the #'s and both performed the same on the discharger and track.
Brian