Change carpet onroad in the U.S.?
10-07-2015, 08:25 PM
#62
so at certain events USVTA and USGT are causing a fuss?...if Im understanding this correctly that events are...onroad carpet events are running to many classes?...and that finger seems to be a case thats been around for awhile now. USVTA classes have been added to certain events cause racers wanted them, or the promoter wanted /needed them.
I remember the 1st year Snowbirds entertained VTA, and it was a complete mess and CF. And Mike and the Birds decided not to have it back. But after a few promises and prep rallying the Birds welcomed VTA under USVTA rules back in 2012...and it turned into some of the best racing all week long. We put on a show that was as close as Paul and Keven for the Mod title.
I say that to say this....the events that want USVTA classes will offer them....if not there are at least 3 big national level events that are all about USVTA. Scale Nats Southern Nats and Summit(indoor) Nats.
Onroad has issues but if you think the USVTA or USGT classes is it, you are a sad racer. Look around and see why you have 150 to 200 entries, and see how many are average joe racers that would not have been there if it wasnt for those 2 classes.
Its no big deal to me, but I travel all over just for those 2 classes...if you have them I will travel...if its TC and 12th, not happening.
simplify your world
mod TC and 12th scale
13.5 TC and 12th scale
17.5 TC and 12th scale
thats 6 classes right there?...why?
mod TC and 12th Scale
stock TC and 12th Scale
USVTA or USGT
simple.....where is the rocket science ?
I remember the 1st year Snowbirds entertained VTA, and it was a complete mess and CF. And Mike and the Birds decided not to have it back. But after a few promises and prep rallying the Birds welcomed VTA under USVTA rules back in 2012...and it turned into some of the best racing all week long. We put on a show that was as close as Paul and Keven for the Mod title.
I say that to say this....the events that want USVTA classes will offer them....if not there are at least 3 big national level events that are all about USVTA. Scale Nats Southern Nats and Summit(indoor) Nats.
Onroad has issues but if you think the USVTA or USGT classes is it, you are a sad racer. Look around and see why you have 150 to 200 entries, and see how many are average joe racers that would not have been there if it wasnt for those 2 classes.
Its no big deal to me, but I travel all over just for those 2 classes...if you have them I will travel...if its TC and 12th, not happening.
simplify your world
mod TC and 12th scale
13.5 TC and 12th scale
17.5 TC and 12th scale
thats 6 classes right there?...why?
mod TC and 12th Scale
stock TC and 12th Scale
USVTA or USGT
simple.....where is the rocket science ?
10-07-2015, 08:54 PM
#63
10-07-2015, 09:38 PM
#64
Open/boosted anything is a bad idea. Look at the wonders it's done for mod 1/12.
I love 13.5 sedan, it's all I normally run and wish it was mod. I've tried several times to stick with practicing actual mod, and the reality is that I lose interest because it's not fun for me. It starts to feel like work, and ultimately I do this for fun.
I say this as a fairly competent stock racer who LOVES it when pro racers enter 13.5. I want to race against the best, even if it means I never win again. I just don't have the chops to do it with a shockingly overpowered car.
And if not guys like me, then who? I've practiced 1-2 times a week continuously for the last 7 years. We have guys at our track that have been there probably 5x as much as I have, and while they're dominating the stock classes at most big races, they're not getting it done in mod either.
So, here's my suggestion for sedan racing. And keep in mind this is specific to US indoor tracks only. Outdoor is a different story.
21.5 blinky - Indoor Stock Sedan
13.5 blinky - Indoor Mod Sedan
Remember, 13.5 in 2016 is faster than mod in 2009.
I love 13.5 sedan, it's all I normally run and wish it was mod. I've tried several times to stick with practicing actual mod, and the reality is that I lose interest because it's not fun for me. It starts to feel like work, and ultimately I do this for fun.
I say this as a fairly competent stock racer who LOVES it when pro racers enter 13.5. I want to race against the best, even if it means I never win again. I just don't have the chops to do it with a shockingly overpowered car.
And if not guys like me, then who? I've practiced 1-2 times a week continuously for the last 7 years. We have guys at our track that have been there probably 5x as much as I have, and while they're dominating the stock classes at most big races, they're not getting it done in mod either.
So, here's my suggestion for sedan racing. And keep in mind this is specific to US indoor tracks only. Outdoor is a different story.
21.5 blinky - Indoor Stock Sedan
13.5 blinky - Indoor Mod Sedan
Remember, 13.5 in 2016 is faster than mod in 2009.
10-07-2015, 09:50 PM
#65
I think stock should be the usgt class. It has treaded tires and more realistic bodies. That alone is enough to get the attention of a potential new racer.
The speeds are still fast but very manageable.
I also can't for the life of me understand why the hell we don't have locked timing on these motors.
I think roar has really dropped the ball on that. Fixed timing=lower temps and slower speeds.
17.5 and 13.5 tc can be eliminated.
Mod is way too fast. I'm not sure if it should be slowed down or if we need to stop using these super sticky tires so you can't use all of that crazy power.
The speeds are still fast but very manageable.
I also can't for the life of me understand why the hell we don't have locked timing on these motors.
I think roar has really dropped the ball on that. Fixed timing=lower temps and slower speeds.
17.5 and 13.5 tc can be eliminated.
Mod is way too fast. I'm not sure if it should be slowed down or if we need to stop using these super sticky tires so you can't use all of that crazy power.
I'd leave the motor/esc for open mod and what remains of 17.5 TC. The real issue I have here is the crazy sticky tires we have now. All the manufactures are being pressured into sticky tires so they can compete with the other manufactures that it's becoming a big issue. I mean, the new Jaco blue is way soft, so is the Gravity tire. In the past I could interchange Jaco's and Sweep 32's but now you need Sweep 28's to be comparable and those are really sticky too. These tires make setup and perfect driving extremely critical and drive down lap times too much.
10-08-2015, 02:36 AM
#67
something that makes me laugh over the last decade or so is when guys say there's too many classes at BIG races...but if the BIG race only had 80 entries would you travel across country, spend $2000 - 3000 and 5 days at the track?
How many "BIG" races have guys that run 3-4 classes (or more) - BOOM 80x3 = 240 entries, 80 x 4 = 320 (with BIG Races charging $80 - $100 per entry... you can SEE the reason for all the classes) -
Venues are expensive - and guys will PAY the entry money for a quality big event... (I won't anymore - but there was a time I would)
How many "BIG" races have guys that run 3-4 classes (or more) - BOOM 80x3 = 240 entries, 80 x 4 = 320 (with BIG Races charging $80 - $100 per entry... you can SEE the reason for all the classes) -
Venues are expensive - and guys will PAY the entry money for a quality big event... (I won't anymore - but there was a time I would)
10-08-2015, 02:44 AM
#69
Just to enter some information about how it's done over here (Germany) the official classed in the DMC (equivalent of your ROAR):
TC Modified - open ESC (boost) and open motors
TC Sport - blinky ESC (as per EFRA rules) and approved 13.5T motors (the list has only 6 legal motors on it)
TC Hobby - blinky ESC (as per EFRA rules) and approved 17.5T motors with fixed timing and max. FDR of 5.0 (list of approved motors contains only 2 motors)
(All TC classes are run on 2S.)
1/12 Modified - open ESC (boost) and open motors
1/12 Stock - blinky ESC (as per EFRA rules) and approved 10.5T motors (the list has only 6 legal motors on it)
(Both are run on 1S.)
Manufacturers can have their motors approved each year and these approvals stay valid for 3 years. Many of the "motor of the week" manufacturers apparently don't even bother to get their motors approved over here.
Not saying you should do it like we do - just entering some (foreign) information into your discussion.
10-08-2015, 03:36 AM
#70
This is just my wacky opinion. but for TC there should be
Beginner class : 21.5t , spec usgt style tires, non-TC body and sealed 21.5t motor
Advanced class: Mod
I have never raced mod, but if the track is small, why don't people just select the right motor to suit their skill in mod? You could also add a bunch of timing to your 21.5t motor and run it to save money and because the track is small still be competitive. It would be cool to race against people using different power systems in mod from high timing 21.5t and 17.5t to moderately geared low turned motors.
As for the beginner class, it needs to bring people into the hobby, and as an observation, realistic bodies really help
Either way, keep it simple, keep it fun
Beginner class : 21.5t , spec usgt style tires, non-TC body and sealed 21.5t motor
Advanced class: Mod
I have never raced mod, but if the track is small, why don't people just select the right motor to suit their skill in mod? You could also add a bunch of timing to your 21.5t motor and run it to save money and because the track is small still be competitive. It would be cool to race against people using different power systems in mod from high timing 21.5t and 17.5t to moderately geared low turned motors.
As for the beginner class, it needs to bring people into the hobby, and as an observation, realistic bodies really help
Either way, keep it simple, keep it fun
10-08-2015, 03:36 AM
#71
Let's just look at some facts
2005 nationals seperation between the top 9 guys was 2 laps
2015 classic. Seperation between the top 8 guys in 1/12 stock was 2 laps
I'm confused on how this is such a big difference? Yes, stock is going faster, but the seperation is identical to 10 years ago. The good old days allegedly.
Now let's look at the seperation between mod and stock
Mod-stock seperation today 9 laps
Mod-stock seperation 10 years ago 4 laps.
The seperation between the top 7 mod guys in the A is 10 laps ��. Am I the only one that thinks this is backwards in slowing the stock class down??
2005 nationals seperation between the top 9 guys was 2 laps
2015 classic. Seperation between the top 8 guys in 1/12 stock was 2 laps
I'm confused on how this is such a big difference? Yes, stock is going faster, but the seperation is identical to 10 years ago. The good old days allegedly.
Now let's look at the seperation between mod and stock
Mod-stock seperation today 9 laps
Mod-stock seperation 10 years ago 4 laps.
The seperation between the top 7 mod guys in the A is 10 laps ��. Am I the only one that thinks this is backwards in slowing the stock class down??
10-08-2015, 03:59 AM
#73
I love 13.5 sedan, it's all I normally run and wish it was mod. I've tried several times to stick with practicing actual mod, and the reality is that I lose interest because it's not fun for me. It starts to feel like work, and ultimately I do this for fun.
I say this as a fairly competent stock racer who LOVES it when pro racers enter 13.5. I want to race against the best, even if it means I never win again. I just don't have the chops to do it with a shockingly overpowered car.
I say this as a fairly competent stock racer who LOVES it when pro racers enter 13.5. I want to race against the best, even if it means I never win again. I just don't have the chops to do it with a shockingly overpowered car.
Also, you can take that reasoning and change it to "17.5" and there's your answer as to why people run VTA or USGT instead of "Stock TC".
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I'm not looking for some mythical hero from a governing body or manufacturer to realize the error in this speed advance and step in to save the day, I know it won't happen. It will take slow change from within the community. Organizers will be where this change happens, hopefully they do not get bullied by a select few who will resist any change that threatens their reign at the top.
I only regret not realizing change is needed prior to helping set the H Classic classes this year. For the record, I wanted less classes
The poll is netting some interesting results, I will post the numbers when I get a little larger total and maybe that'll wake up the community.
10-08-2015, 04:20 AM
#74
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
I suppose that USGT and VTA should not be offered at big races that have regular sedan classes. I hear plenty of "funster" comments. Which brings me to my point. These classes are not about everyone gets a trophy, they are about a different class, with bodies that (surprise!) look like a real car, and have slower motors. The only reason you see them at these races is that (surprise #2 !) they are popular....because they are fun and normal people can get the cars around the track. SO yeah, it's fun. Like a hobby.
On another note, USGT and F1 were the closest classes in the mains this past weekend and they were the slowest.
