LeMans LMP1: 200mm Pan Class Discussion
12-31-2013, 04:14 PM
#136
I'm all for a standard set of rules, but I would also like to add flavor to the class. We've bounced around some very interesting ideas, most importantly the team driver aspect. The second most important aspect is inclusion: make, build or borrow (please don't steal) a car that fits in the technical specifications: this includes dimensions, tires, wheel mounting system, ESC, motor, battery and body. Third: Don't argue about the little things.
The little things:
Other sub classes of this class - Not gonna happen. We have F1, VTA and USGT.
Other acceptable dimensions in this class - None: That is another class, don't push for it if you want this one to survive.
Other chassis: Yes. Why? The cheapest way in is the LM-1 and body kit. The Second cheapest way in is a chassis conversion and pay full price for a body and mounted tires. The third is a ground up build, very fulfilling, but time consuming and expensive.
Am I being closed minded about the little things? Yes and no. Yes, It's about class saturation in on road. Yes, its too many classes, too few drivers for on road. No, it is not about exclusion, but inclusion and getting every dusty old 10th scale relic off the shelves and into this class.
The little things:
Other sub classes of this class - Not gonna happen. We have F1, VTA and USGT.
Other acceptable dimensions in this class - None: That is another class, don't push for it if you want this one to survive.
Other chassis: Yes. Why? The cheapest way in is the LM-1 and body kit. The Second cheapest way in is a chassis conversion and pay full price for a body and mounted tires. The third is a ground up build, very fulfilling, but time consuming and expensive.
Am I being closed minded about the little things? Yes and no. Yes, It's about class saturation in on road. Yes, its too many classes, too few drivers for on road. No, it is not about exclusion, but inclusion and getting every dusty old 10th scale relic off the shelves and into this class.
YeEeEaAAaH 
12-31-2013, 04:54 PM
#137
Well said liljohn...to offer a counterpoint though, while I do think getting as many cars out and on the track as possible (at least from the non-touring car contingent), the idea of the P Challenge class wasn't conceived in my head in an effort to be exclusive, at least not intentionally. The idea was born out of a thought of having a relatively low-cost, entry level option for people wanting to get into that style of racing and not feel like they had to spend a lot even once the rules are finalized by Rick Vessell and Rob over at USVTA and to compete on an equal playing field not only at their local level but at larger events as well.
12-31-2013, 10:00 PM
#138
I'm probably not going to be very popular after this post, but so be it .
This class will never take off, because you guys have already doomed it and killed the purity of it. Speed Passion brought a great product to market, but apparently it's not good enough because it seems like everyone wants to run everything but the SP. I would forget all this talk of LMPC and just run LeMans,
SpeedPassion cars only, quit diluting the classes. Everyone is trying to recycle old WGT cars and it's going to spawn a bunch of hacked together cars that bring down the cool look of the class, which is the appeal of the class in the first place. WGT failed because it never delivered what it promised and I see this going the same way. Onroad is dead because you have 10 classes and 2 or 3 people running each class. People are trying to reinvent the class before it ever gets going and it will die because there will be too many variables in the cars to ever have rules stability.
This class will never take off, because you guys have already doomed it and killed the purity of it. Speed Passion brought a great product to market, but apparently it's not good enough because it seems like everyone wants to run everything but the SP. I would forget all this talk of LMPC and just run LeMans,
SpeedPassion cars only, quit diluting the classes. Everyone is trying to recycle old WGT cars and it's going to spawn a bunch of hacked together cars that bring down the cool look of the class, which is the appeal of the class in the first place. WGT failed because it never delivered what it promised and I see this going the same way. Onroad is dead because you have 10 classes and 2 or 3 people running each class. People are trying to reinvent the class before it ever gets going and it will die because there will be too many variables in the cars to ever have rules stability.
12-31-2013, 11:12 PM
#139
I'm probably not going to be very popular after this post, but so be it .
This class will never take off, because you guys have already doomed it and killed the purity of it. Speed Passion brought a great product to market, but apparently it's not good enough because it seems like everyone wants to run everything but the SP. I would forget all this talk of LMPC and just run LeMans,
SpeedPassion cars only, quit diluting the classes. Everyone is trying to recycle old WGT cars and it's going to spawn a bunch of hacked together cars that bringlocaly down the cool look of the class, which is the appeal of the class in the first place. WGT failed because it never delivered what it promised and I see this going the same way. Onroad is dead because you have 10 classes and 2 or 3 people running each class. People are trying to reinvent the class before it ever gets going and it will die because there will be too many variables in the cars to ever have rules stability.
This class will never take off, because you guys have already doomed it and killed the purity of it. Speed Passion brought a great product to market, but apparently it's not good enough because it seems like everyone wants to run everything but the SP. I would forget all this talk of LMPC and just run LeMans,
SpeedPassion cars only, quit diluting the classes. Everyone is trying to recycle old WGT cars and it's going to spawn a bunch of hacked together cars that bringlocaly down the cool look of the class, which is the appeal of the class in the first place. WGT failed because it never delivered what it promised and I see this going the same way. Onroad is dead because you have 10 classes and 2 or 3 people running each class. People are trying to reinvent the class before it ever gets going and it will die because there will be too many variables in the cars to ever have rules stability.
I have an LM-1. I also have 2 CRC Gen X LEs. I'm not converting my WGT cars as the class is still viable and is run at major events. It is more cost effective to buy 2 SP LM-1 combo kits from you than it would be to convert 1 WGT, buy a body and set of tires. This is including the original purchase price of the pan car. You will come out ahead if you sell the WGT and buy the combo. I race with celt in Madison, WI and we are growing with stock kits. Mine has not hit the track due to some injuries keeping me off the stand. The prognosis is most are buying the kit for the class anyway. WGT was never a class locally. We did run with 12th scales a couple of times.
My recommendation is to buy the LM-1 LMA combo. Many less headaches. This does not
contadict my earlier post as it is still the easiest path into the class with the lowest overhead cost. The 2 other strategies are really for those that have the parts and skill to pull off an appropriate conversion.
01-01-2014, 06:07 AM
#140
You will not need your flame retardant underwear.
I have an LM-1. I also have 2 CRC Gen X LEs. I'm not converting my WGT cars as the class is still viable and is run at major events. It is more cost effective to buy 2 SP LM-1 combo kits from you than it would be to convert 1 WGT, buy a body and set of tires. This is including the original purchase price of the pan car. You will come out ahead if you sell the WGT and buy the combo. I race with celt in Madison, WI and we are growing with stock kits. Mine has not hit the track due to some injuries keeping me off the stand. The prognosis is most are buying the kit for the class anyway. WGT was never a class locally. We did run with 12th scales a couple of times.
My recommendation is to buy the LM-1 LMA combo. Many less headaches. This does not
contadict my earlier post as it is still the easiest path into the class with the lowest overhead cost. The 2 other strategies are really for those that have the parts and skill to pull off an appropriate conversion.
I have an LM-1. I also have 2 CRC Gen X LEs. I'm not converting my WGT cars as the class is still viable and is run at major events. It is more cost effective to buy 2 SP LM-1 combo kits from you than it would be to convert 1 WGT, buy a body and set of tires. This is including the original purchase price of the pan car. You will come out ahead if you sell the WGT and buy the combo. I race with celt in Madison, WI and we are growing with stock kits. Mine has not hit the track due to some injuries keeping me off the stand. The prognosis is most are buying the kit for the class anyway. WGT was never a class locally. We did run with 12th scales a couple of times.
My recommendation is to buy the LM-1 LMA combo. Many less headaches. This does not
contadict my earlier post as it is still the easiest path into the class with the lowest overhead cost. The 2 other strategies are really for those that have the parts and skill to pull off an appropriate conversion.
01-01-2014, 06:22 AM
#141
Tech Fanatic
This is a wonderful idea, and you re going to have to work really hard to get it accepted and enough people running it. Every attempt at a single 'car' class in the past has failed completely. We've had F1 with Tamiya chassis, Club 20 for 8th Gas in the 1980s, 12th with the Tamiya chassis in the 90s and even Trinity's Street Spec in the 90s. None of them survived; each is as dead as the dodo with similar prospects for a new life!
Stick with it; give it a go and see how you get on. Any class that brings new racers into RC is a good class. Just know that you are going to have to work really hard at this to get it going and keep it going. Simply posting on a forum is not going to get you anywhere - organise races and get the manufacturer to support would be the first things to do. Good luck!
Stick with it; give it a go and see how you get on. Any class that brings new racers into RC is a good class. Just know that you are going to have to work really hard at this to get it going and keep it going. Simply posting on a forum is not going to get you anywhere - organise races and get the manufacturer to support would be the first things to do. Good luck!
01-01-2014, 11:42 AM
#143
I'm w/BP Shadow on this
I'm probably not going to be very popular after this post, but so be it .
This class will never take off, because you guys have already doomed it and killed the purity of it. Speed Passion brought a great product to market, but apparently it's not good enough because it seems like everyone wants to run everything but the SP. I would forget all this talk of LMPC and just run LeMans,
SpeedPassion cars only, quit diluting the classes. Everyone is trying to recycle old WGT cars and it's going to spawn a bunch of hacked together cars that bring down the cool look of the class, which is the appeal of the class in the first place. WGT failed because it never delivered what it promised and I see this going the same way. Onroad is dead because you have 10 classes and 2 or 3 people running each class. People are trying to reinvent the class before it ever gets going and it will die because there will be too many variables in the cars to ever have rules stability.
This class will never take off, because you guys have already doomed it and killed the purity of it. Speed Passion brought a great product to market, but apparently it's not good enough because it seems like everyone wants to run everything but the SP. I would forget all this talk of LMPC and just run LeMans,
SpeedPassion cars only, quit diluting the classes. Everyone is trying to recycle old WGT cars and it's going to spawn a bunch of hacked together cars that bring down the cool look of the class, which is the appeal of the class in the first place. WGT failed because it never delivered what it promised and I see this going the same way. Onroad is dead because you have 10 classes and 2 or 3 people running each class. People are trying to reinvent the class before it ever gets going and it will die because there will be too many variables in the cars to ever have rules stability.
01-01-2014, 07:55 PM
#144
Thanks John, and know that my diatribe was not aimed at or intended for you. I don't want to kill the enthusiasm, but the more exceptions you allow the faster people lose interest because you now need more time investment to keep up. I am not a fan of full spec racing believe it or not I just think that the cars running in a class like this should be purpose designed. A properly set up 103GT will probably be quicker than an LM1 just because of its track and shorter wheelbase, and since it is out of production parts are hard to come by making it not available to all
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01-02-2014, 08:51 PM
#150
If anyone in this thread will be attending Snowbirds this year, please bring your LMP with you for some show and tell with me by the scoring computer. I have talked with a US based body producer who is willing to make another LMP body (sadly, we were gonna mold this two years ago 
) and I'd like to show him the concept in person at the 'birds.
) and I'd like to show him the concept in person at the 'birds.