LeMans LMP1: 200mm Pan Class Discussion
01-06-2014, 02:49 PM
#166
01-07-2014, 04:37 AM
#168
01-07-2014, 06:33 AM
#170
That's one of the beauties of something like the LM1. When I came up with the PC class based on the LM1, it was about coming up with something that would not break the bank of anyone interested. If you look at everything that would be involved:
LM1 Kit with body $199.99
Reventon Stock Club Race ESC $49.99
Competition V3.0 21.5R Motor 37.99
Total $287.97
Add a 2S battery and an inexpensive 2.4GHz system and you probably only just clear $400, 450 max because you arent gonna be replacing the tires all that often based on the reports we are getting from some guys over on the LM1 thread. It would be nice to work out a USVTA style class where people can run their GenX10s and SPeedmerchant WGTs and other assorted 200mm chassis without a whole lot of additional financial outlay.
LM1 Kit with body $199.99
Reventon Stock Club Race ESC $49.99
Competition V3.0 21.5R Motor 37.99
Total $287.97
Add a 2S battery and an inexpensive 2.4GHz system and you probably only just clear $400, 450 max because you arent gonna be replacing the tires all that often based on the reports we are getting from some guys over on the LM1 thread. It would be nice to work out a USVTA style class where people can run their GenX10s and SPeedmerchant WGTs and other assorted 200mm chassis without a whole lot of additional financial outlay.
01-07-2014, 08:29 AM
#172
1. How fast do those cars go?
2. How much does your car cost?
3. Wow, I like the colors/paint scheme on your car
I hear more "realism" talk on the forums than I ever had at any given race that I have attended. The very young kids that may accompany the adult spectators are wowed on how fast certain cars are during a race or are fixated on the brightest/most eye-catching colors certain car bodies may be painted. The only exceptions are the F1 and VTA classes but even then, fast and color trumps "realism".
Last edited by JLock; 01-07-2014 at 09:30 AM.
01-07-2014, 09:13 AM
#173
No chunking, no cracking of the wheels or issues with the tires in any way. The tires are dead on consistent from the start of the tone to the end of the race.
$30.00 for the set of four? How can you beat that?
01-07-2014, 10:14 AM
#175
JLock, that really is the purpose of the P Challenge class I informally drew up: Coming up with a class that is both fun and easy to enter into without having to sell one of your vital organs in the process. I think both classes need to be tested on a small scale (like 1 or 2 tracks) over the next 2-3 months and then slowly branch out as the outdoor season gets rolling end of spring into the summer
01-07-2014, 10:40 AM
#176
Well said liljohn...to offer a counterpoint though, while I do think getting as many cars out and on the track as possible (at least from the non-touring car contingent), the idea of the P Challenge class wasn't conceived in my head in an effort to be exclusive, at least not intentionally. The idea was born out of a thought of having a relatively low-cost, entry level option for people wanting to get into that style of racing and not feel like they had to spend a lot even once the rules are finalized by Rick Vessell and Rob over at USVTA and to compete on an equal playing field not only at their local level but at larger events as well.
I'm probably not going to be very popular after this post, but so be it .
This class will never take off, because you guys have already doomed it and killed the purity of it. Speed Passion brought a great product to market, but apparently it's not good enough because it seems like everyone wants to run everything but the SP. I would forget all this talk of LMPC and just run LeMans,
SpeedPassion cars only, quit diluting the classes. Everyone is trying to recycle old WGT cars and it's going to spawn a bunch of hacked together cars that bring down the cool look of the class, which is the appeal of the class in the first place. WGT failed because it never delivered what it promised and I see this going the same way. Onroad is dead because you have 10 classes and 2 or 3 people running each class. People are trying to reinvent the class before it ever gets going and it will die because there will be too many variables in the cars to ever have rules stability.
This class will never take off, because you guys have already doomed it and killed the purity of it. Speed Passion brought a great product to market, but apparently it's not good enough because it seems like everyone wants to run everything but the SP. I would forget all this talk of LMPC and just run LeMans,
SpeedPassion cars only, quit diluting the classes. Everyone is trying to recycle old WGT cars and it's going to spawn a bunch of hacked together cars that bring down the cool look of the class, which is the appeal of the class in the first place. WGT failed because it never delivered what it promised and I see this going the same way. Onroad is dead because you have 10 classes and 2 or 3 people running each class. People are trying to reinvent the class before it ever gets going and it will die because there will be too many variables in the cars to ever have rules stability.
This is a wonderful idea, and you re going to have to work really hard to get it accepted and enough people running it. Every attempt at a single 'car' class in the past has failed completely. We've had F1 with Tamiya chassis, Club 20 for 8th Gas in the 1980s, 12th with the Tamiya chassis in the 90s and even Trinity's Street Spec in the 90s. None of them survived; each is as dead as the dodo with similar prospects for a new life!
Stick with it; give it a go and see how you get on. Any class that brings new racers into RC is a good class. Just know that you are going to have to work really hard at this to get it going and keep it going. Simply posting on a forum is not going to get you anywhere - organise races and get the manufacturer to support would be the first things to do. Good luck!
Stick with it; give it a go and see how you get on. Any class that brings new racers into RC is a good class. Just know that you are going to have to work really hard at this to get it going and keep it going. Simply posting on a forum is not going to get you anywhere - organise races and get the manufacturer to support would be the first things to do. Good luck!
You shouldn't worry about the popularity of your ideas if they are thoughtful, and I believe them to be, and in parallel with what I've been saying to others in person.
Racers will spend more money "hacking together" a car than you would spend on the Speed Passion combo kit. The LM-1 has to be the best deal in RC right now. The quality of design. materials and realism are simply stunning at any price. I've sold kits by just letting someone take a lap with mine.
How much time are we going to spend arguing about whether a certain "hacked together" chassis is fair to run in the class - isn't your time worth something? Doesn't that detract from the class as well? Hasn't it always? Here you have an insanely cheap package that is stunningly fun to drive out of the box! Little to no tire wear - heck the price of the FULL set dropped to $30.00? Who else offers a current, in production, LM car? Anyone? We want to start an LM class...
I'll tell you what will be an unpopular comment:
I don't think this is about cost at all. This isn't my first rodeo, I've been in this hobby for 25 years, I've seen first hand how much we all spend on this hobby - look at the divorce rate. Somewhat joking but not. You aren't going to convince me that a $199.00 full combo kit is the issue here - you'll spend more than that on tires for a large weekend race for crying out loud.
Parts support? I've ordered kits / parts from F1RCLab and SpeedPowerRC. Service has been nothing short of outstanding as I've gotten my order within two days from both shops. Still have yet to break a part...
I think it's the human condition, we like to argue, bicker, and whine - which is what the LM class would turn into if you allow the "dilution" that bpshadow speaks of - I just think it's bad for a different set of reasons. When another MFG produces an LM kit of the same scale and reasonably similar specs - it's permitted.
This platform is a real opportunity to get all skill levels of on-road racers...racing? Stay off the bar stool for one night and buy a kit, then race.
Racers will spend more money "hacking together" a car than you would spend on the Speed Passion combo kit. The LM-1 has to be the best deal in RC right now. The quality of design. materials and realism are simply stunning at any price. I've sold kits by just letting someone take a lap with mine.
How much time are we going to spend arguing about whether a certain "hacked together" chassis is fair to run in the class - isn't your time worth something? Doesn't that detract from the class as well? Hasn't it always? Here you have an insanely cheap package that is stunningly fun to drive out of the box! Little to no tire wear - heck the price of the FULL set dropped to $30.00? Who else offers a current, in production, LM car? Anyone? We want to start an LM class...
I'll tell you what will be an unpopular comment:
I don't think this is about cost at all. This isn't my first rodeo, I've been in this hobby for 25 years, I've seen first hand how much we all spend on this hobby - look at the divorce rate. Somewhat joking but not. You aren't going to convince me that a $199.00 full combo kit is the issue here - you'll spend more than that on tires for a large weekend race for crying out loud.
Parts support? I've ordered kits / parts from F1RCLab and SpeedPowerRC. Service has been nothing short of outstanding as I've gotten my order within two days from both shops. Still have yet to break a part...
I think it's the human condition, we like to argue, bicker, and whine - which is what the LM class would turn into if you allow the "dilution" that bpshadow speaks of - I just think it's bad for a different set of reasons. When another MFG produces an LM kit of the same scale and reasonably similar specs - it's permitted.
This platform is a real opportunity to get all skill levels of on-road racers...racing? Stay off the bar stool for one night and buy a kit, then race.
Ok I have read through most of this thread and skimmed through much of the relentless bickering. I think you guys are in a very similar position to how short course racing was when it was in it's infancy. The class was born from the creation of one RTR and was made popular in many areas using just that one chassis. As more manufacturers came on board, more pressure developed to allow those products into the class. Today there aren't quite as many Slash trucks in SCT, but the dimension of the wheels, tires and body all reflect the origins of the class. Now I don't have a crystal ball and I don't know exactly how this class is going to develop, but I think the conditions resemble how it was for SCT. I think you guys that have the speed passion cars should run them like crazy. Other guys are going to want in on the fun, and if you are lucky, you will have to adapt the rules and let the class evolve. If not, the class will probably be dead...
Very nice howard...post a report once youve had a chance to run a couple packs through your car with those tires and how they fit on your car.
JLock, that really is the purpose of the P Challenge class I informally drew up: Coming up with a class that is both fun and easy to enter into without having to sell one of your vital organs in the process. I think both classes need to be tested on a small scale (like 1 or 2 tracks) over the next 2-3 months and then slowly branch out as the outdoor season gets rolling end of spring into the summer
JLock, that really is the purpose of the P Challenge class I informally drew up: Coming up with a class that is both fun and easy to enter into without having to sell one of your vital organs in the process. I think both classes need to be tested on a small scale (like 1 or 2 tracks) over the next 2-3 months and then slowly branch out as the outdoor season gets rolling end of spring into the summer
Just so no one misunderstands me, I truly want this class to succeed. I simply thought that seeing if an unused WGT chassis could be made to work would be a positive thing and get more drivers involved.
Also so no one thinks I'm biased, I have posted pics of both my cars.
01-07-2014, 11:47 AM
#178
beautiful cars!!!
and a really exiting class!!!
Keep it up - im very exited to hear how it develops as we don't have a similar class hear in germany - but I would really think about buying a RC10R5 or F103 ... if those cars would be raced here on our local track!
So keep going and wishing you lots of fun!
Greetings fom Germany, Jan-Peter
and a really exiting class!!!
Keep it up - im very exited to hear how it develops as we don't have a similar class hear in germany - but I would really think about buying a RC10R5 or F103 ... if those cars would be raced here on our local track!
So keep going and wishing you lots of fun!
Greetings fom Germany, Jan-Peter
01-07-2014, 01:16 PM
#179
I think that done properly you can cater to both the people with existing chassis that want to run a prototype class, and to the people that want to get in and don't have a problem buying a chassis but don't want to pay an arm, leg, a pint of blood, a pound of flesh and/or your firstborn child. There are pockets of LM1s popping up in areas and I think that done properly we could have a very viable class