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-   -   Tamiya TT02 Thread (https://www.rctech.net/forum/electric-road/700357-tamiya-tt02-thread.html)

OVA 09-14-2022 03:46 PM


Originally Posted by Xrayray (Post 15939599)
Yes, the hop up option spool. Everything else kit.

I have the shocks mounted in on the front and out on the rear. Same shock package all around.

gear diff is better for me
it allow more corner steering

Raman 09-14-2022 03:49 PM


Originally Posted by OVA (Post 15939600)
you knew it :)

They’re looking to revive the Silverbowl here in Vegas. You can build a whole TT kit before ProSpec 21.5 motor propels the car down the back straight. 😉

OVA 09-14-2022 03:52 PM


Originally Posted by Raman (Post 15939602)
They’re looking to revive the Silverbowl here in Vegas. You can build a whole TT kit before ProSpec 21.5 motor propels the car down the back straight. 😉

nice

Xrayray 09-14-2022 04:50 PM


Originally Posted by OVA (Post 15939601)
gear diff is better for me
it allow more corner steering

I will do some testing, thanks for the advice.

BullFrog 09-16-2022 05:57 PM

Fixed my problem with the Year racing hubs along with the yeah racing drive shafts.

BenewahRCTeam 09-20-2022 11:10 AM

New to onroad...
 
Hello all. New to on road RC cars here. Have just built a few cars that I am hoping to get out with this week and drive some. Started at page 200 and read through the last bit of this thread... and will surely do some more looking around and digging for info .
We built 2 cars, to start with they will just be used for fun and for getting out feet wet with onroad driving. One was built from a TT02 AMG kit, the other came from a TT02D Skyline R33 kit. Both were built with bearings, amd a few hop up parts were also used.
I will be back with some questions and details about the cars after having driven them some, looking forward to out TT02 journeys to come.
Initial questions... with the center prop shaft drive cups, came a single black o-ring... not sure what that is for, or what keeps the front prop shaft from moving towards the rear of the car when running... am I missing something here?
the Drift kit came with softer springs, would running those on the rear but swapping the fronts to stiffer springs be better for making laps around a course? I have to do some research and learning about shocks for these cars, especially as the CVA damper kit O bought for the chassis that came with friction shocks seem to be different shocks than the ones that came with the Drift kit... I need to go see if I kept the tag from that package.
one car got 2 degree YR rear uprights, and adjustable steering links, as well as a solid aluminum servo horn. I will probably get the Tamiya steering upgrade kit for the other car...as well as 2 sets of universals and drive cups, and 2 oil filled front diffs. A spring set or 2 might be in order as well...
cars will be running on torque tuned motors,, and for now 24t pinions...
ANY initial help or advice would he most appreciated.
cheers

Raman 09-20-2022 12:28 PM

Yes The oring is needed in the prop shaft. The front prop shaft doesn’t have a cross pin to keep it in place.. so it can slide back and forth. I personally use an o ring and also cut the old uerthene pink bushings , half of it to further secure things.

https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/optio...thane-bushing/

MikeTKD 09-21-2022 04:25 AM


Originally Posted by BenewahRCTeam (Post 15941129)
the Drift kit came with softer springs, would running those on the rear but swapping the fronts to stiffer springs be better for making laps around a course? I have to do some research and learning about shocks for these cars, especially as the CVA damper kit O bought for the chassis that came with friction shocks seem to be different shocks than the ones that came with the Drift kit... I need to go see if I kept the tag from that package.
one car got 2 degree YR rear uprights, and adjustable steering links, as well as a solid aluminum servo horn. I will probably get the Tamiya steering upgrade kit for the other car...as well as 2 sets of universals and drive cups, and 2 oil filled front diffs. A spring set or 2 might be in order as well...
cars will be running on torque tuned motors,, and for now 24t pinions...
ANY initial help or advice would he most appreciated.
cheers

O ring goes in one of the prop shaft cup to keep it from moving back and forth, but allowing some movement when the chassis flexes.
If you plan on racing I would check with your local track to see what mods are allowed.
Here in Mt. Joy, PA we have an indoor asphalt track where the TT02 and TT01e are allowed to run. It's basically a box stock build. Bearings, universal joints & cups, and spec tire (USGT). Front aluminum knuckles are allowed to make it more reliable. And that's it, everything else has to be stock build. It's a FUN class because all the cars are equal.
We put sticky grease like Lucas Red & Tacky in the front diff (rear diff is empty) and some in the friction shocks to keep it from getting bouncy.
My TT02 (left) my son's TT01e (right)
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...25d07b74d7.jpg

lowspark 09-26-2022 09:51 AM

I'm seeing the TT-02R noted as discontinued on some of the hobby shop websites ???
Is it really discontinued or just a back order item??

DirkW 09-26-2022 10:10 AM

It's not unusual for these special versions to be produced in limited quantities only, so yes, it could be truly gone.

Raman 09-26-2022 12:15 PM


Originally Posted by lowspark (Post 15942670)
I'm seeing the TT-02R noted as discontinued on some of the hobby shop websites ???
Is it really discontinued or just a back order item??

Appears to be the case

https://www.tamiyausa.com/shop/110-4...chassis-kit-2/

IAmGreatDane 10-03-2022 04:31 AM

Hi guys.

I am about to put together my TT-02 Type S chassis and have a question concerning the diff's and Tamiya Diff Putty: I will add a small ball of putty in the rear and three balls of putty in the front. But do I need to add lubricant to the diff gears too or does the Diff putty also acts as a lubricant within the diff's?

Thanks.

DirkW 10-03-2022 08:01 AM

IIRC, the putty is meant to be used for locking the diff, so only for the front. Personally I'd use a liquid filled diff (don't have the part number on hand, though) for the rear.

IAmGreatDane 10-03-2022 09:49 AM


Originally Posted by DirkW (Post 15944564)
IIRC, the putty is meant to be used for locking the diff, so only for the front. Personally I'd use a liquid filled diff (don't have the part number on hand, though) for the rear.

Thanks, DW c'',)

MikeTKD 10-04-2022 04:43 AM


Originally Posted by IAmGreatDane (Post 15944520)
Hi guys.

I am about to put together my TT-02 Type S chassis and have a question concerning the diff's and Tamiya Diff Putty: I will add a small ball of putty in the rear and three balls of putty in the front. But do I need to add lubricant to the diff gears too or does the Diff putty also acts as a lubricant within the diff's?

Thanks.

Plus I will tell you from experience if you use putty and want to change it later it is a HUGE mess. Also ruined a good pair of double cardans when I tried putty in my TT02. Snapped both sides.
Whereas using diff oil I just stick it on a diff draining tray for 1-2 hours and then spray with cleaner.

IAmGreatDane 10-04-2022 05:41 AM


Originally Posted by MikeTKD (Post 15944831)
Plus I will tell you from experience if you use putty and want to change it later it is a HUGE mess. Also ruined a good pair of double cardans when I tried putty in my TT02. Snapped both sides.
Whereas using diff oil I just stick it on a diff draining tray for 1-2 hours and then spray with cleaner.

Thanks Mike, for the heads up. I am aware of oil diff for the TT-02, but putty is my only option at present. But now, I know what to expect using putty :-)

Raman 10-04-2022 07:26 AM


Originally Posted by MikeTKD (Post 15944831)
Plus I will tell you from experience if you use putty and want to change it later it is a HUGE mess. Also ruined a good pair of double cardans when I tried putty in my TT02. Snapped both sides.
Whereas using diff oil I just stick it on a diff draining tray for 1-2 hours and then spray with cleaner.

I run diff locker with double cardan and have never snapped or broken them.. can’t see how putty would do that as it’s has a lot more give.

Something else causes them to snap.. perhaps wrong size? They were too long?

EDWARD2003 10-28-2022 07:50 AM

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...f650f1fab4.png
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...b56068b0ab.png
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...9d7d05011b.png
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...fd4a546524.png
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...8c4e2eab61.png
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...db18b7b6dc.png
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...d248587557.png
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...d8af303fbd.png
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...52909a8583.png
TT02 on the juice

snopro31 11-01-2022 11:44 AM


Originally Posted by Raman (Post 15944882)
I run diff locker with double cardan and have never snapped or broken them.. can’t see how putty would do that as it’s has a lot more give.

Something else causes them to snap.. perhaps wrong size? They were too long?


what double cardan did you run? wondering if your running the 39mm ones like i am

Raman 11-01-2022 12:01 PM


Originally Posted by snopro31 (Post 15953084)
what double cardan did you run? wondering if your running the 39mm ones like i am

correct, I’m running 39mm.

If you switched to new spool from XV02, you need to run 37mm

snopro31 11-04-2022 07:05 PM


Originally Posted by Raman (Post 15953096)
correct, I’m running 39mm.

If you switched to new spool from XV02, you need to run 37mm

Good to know I just decided to try the new spool.

zuqbu 11-10-2022 10:42 AM

TT02SRX
 
From Tamiyablog:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...46c4b57c7.jpeg

58720 TT-02SRX RACING On Road 4WD
The TT-02 frame will soon be available in an exclusive updated version compared to the previous S version.
The TT-02 Type-SRX frame kit features increased durability and performance for racing. This frame kit uses the stock oil differential and front rigid post as well as a selection of options normally sold separately. This kit is perfect for those who want an Entry level frame but who already have an Optional base to be able to configure it for competitions.
Chassis Features
1/10 Scale R / C Chassis Mounting Kit.
• Items 22049 oil differential and 22047 rigid front pole ensure easy assembly and stable driveability.
• This frame kit features a reliable 4 wheel independent double wishbone suspension used in the TRF420 frame to ensure an effective setup.
• Center joints have plastic parts in the joint sections of stainless steel pins and aluminum joints to limit wear of parts.
• Universal joint (code 22054) provides stable steering and cornering grip for superior performance during racing.
• The rear driveshafts have a size of 39mm, specific for this frame.
• High speed gears and 27T sprockets (transmission ratio: 6.55: 1) are included as standard parts of the kit.
• The included servo saver ensures an ideal steering angle and to limit damage to the steering servo.
• Features shielded ball bearings.
• Comes with a dedicated carrying case for the TT-02 Type-SRX chassis.
• Please note that the body, battery, motor, tires and R / C system are not included.
Accessories included as standard
– 37mm cardan for constant velocity joints, 2pcs. (code TO22054).
– XV-02 / TT-02 Oil gear differential (code TO22049).
– Front rigid pole set XV-02 / TT-02 39T (code TO22047).
– 27T module 06 pinion in hardened aluminum (code TO54981).
– TRF419 suspension set (code TO54886).
– TT-02 Hi-Torque Servo Saver Set with metal bracket (code TO54799).
– Central transmission shaft in aluminum TT-02 (code TO54501).
– TT-02 speed gear set, 68t (code TO54500).
– Item 53823: 5mm thick aluminum rim drivers (code TO53823).
– TRF Shock Absorber Oil Seal, 4pcs. (code TO53576).
– Cross joints for low friction constant velocity joints (code TO42357).
– Short ball connector for TRF shock absorbers, 8pcs. (code TO42323)
Looks like the SR with the TRF420 suspension and a couple of driveshaft upgrades. I won’t upgrade from my SR but as that is discontinued I am glad Tamiya is continuing to release a tuned chassis for entry level racing.

Raman 11-10-2022 11:22 AM


Originally Posted by zuqbu (Post 15955849)
From Tamiyablog:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...46c4b57c7.jpeg

Looks like the SR with the TRF420 suspension and a couple of driveshaft upgrades. I won’t upgrade from my SR but as that is discontinued I am glad Tamiya is continuing to release a tuned chassis for entry level racing.

One description says 419 arms the other 420. From pictures, they appear to be 420 arms. Issue with these arms is that the droop screw holes are on opposite side. Where as the old short reversible arms have droop screws on both sides.

zuqbu 11-10-2022 12:33 PM


Originally Posted by Raman (Post 15955858)
One description says 419 arms the other 420. From pictures, they appear to be 420 arms. Issue with these arms is that the droop screw holes are on opposite side. Where as the old short reversible arms have droop screws on both sides.

Yeah, the translation is wonky. I checked the associated part number and it’s the „TRF419 suspension upgrade set“ because it is the hop-up for the TRF419. But it’s the TRF420 suspension.

Sukram 11-11-2022 12:33 PM

you also can see it on the pictures that there are 420 or other new suspension arms and not the 419.
Imo good Idea (got a fully upgraded TT02SRR and it is a fun clubracer) but expensive.

zuqbu 11-11-2022 11:24 PM

Tamico has it listed for preorder now at €289,99 – that's 30 bucks over their price for a TA-08. I don't know if it's worth to spend that much money on a TT-02 but at least you won't have trouble finding spare chassis tubs :lol:

r_lud 11-16-2022 02:02 AM

This my tt02 costly little thing also wanna get ssbb shocks and gt lower towers but why don't they just make a trf version lol trf tt02x
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...1b8904686c.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...025d79916f.jpg
Droop plates
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...1636e8a515.jpg
Long turnbuckle steering
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...c3d4924c6d.jpg
Alloy prop and spur gear adapter
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...17132aba03.jpg
Inner camber link plates
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...6b7b229e29.jpg
Anti roll bars and toe plate cover
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...09ce3b2619.jpg
Carbon bumper plate and towers and alloy shock

Mirko 11-16-2022 01:50 PM


Originally Posted by r_lud (Post 15957354)
This my tt02 costly little thing also wanna get ssbb shocks and gt lower towers but why don't they just make a trf version lol trf tt02x...

This is a very nicely built TT02. 👍
If you want to use SSBB shocks, the lowered shock towers from PSM would be an option.
PSM Front SSBB GT Shock Tower, Carbon 3mm - TT02S (1) - #PS02094 | PSM (psmfactory.com)
PSM Rear Wide SSBB GT Shock Tower, Carbon 3mm - TT02S (1) - #PS02096 | PSM (psmfactory.com)

Please note that this would not work well with the Yeah Racing Anti-Roll Bar Mount (TATT-034). At least in the front the upper cap on the shockbody would hit the Anti-Roll Bar in the innermost or two innermost shock mounting positions. For SSBB the Anti-Roll Bar should better be mounted in a lower position like in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw78yWGRFAg

In my opinion, the big advantage of SSBB shocks is the possibility to use progressive springs. I prefer to use Xray 2.5-2.8 in the front or 2.3-2.6 in high grip conditions combined with 2.6 or 2.7 in the rear.

Eotz 11-16-2022 11:16 PM


Originally Posted by r_lud (Post 15957354)
This my tt02 costly little thing also wanna get ssbb shocks and gt lower towers but why don't they just make a trf version lol trf tt02x
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...1b8904686c.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...025d79916f.jpg
Droop plates
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...1636e8a515.jpg
Long turnbuckle steering
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...c3d4924c6d.jpg
Alloy prop and spur gear adapter
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...17132aba03.jpg
Inner camber link plates
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...6b7b229e29.jpg
Anti roll bars and toe plate cover
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rct...09ce3b2619.jpg
Carbon bumper plate and towers and alloy shock

I like how you placed the weights in the bumper.

r_lud 11-17-2022 01:15 AM


Originally Posted by Mirko (Post 15957523)
This is a very nicely built TT02. 👍
If you want to use SSBB shocks, the lowered shock towers from PSM would be an option.
PSM Front SSBB GT Shock Tower, Carbon 3mm - TT02S (1) - #PS02094 | PSM (psmfactory.com)
PSM Rear Wide SSBB GT Shock Tower, Carbon 3mm - TT02S (1) - #PS02096 | PSM (psmfactory.com)

Please note that this would not work well with the Yeah Racing Anti-Roll Bar Mount (TATT-034). At least in the front the upper cap on the shockbody would hit the Anti-Roll Bar in the innermost or two innermost shock mounting positions. For SSBB the Anti-Roll Bar should better be mounted in a lower position like in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw78yWGRFAg

In my opinion, the big advantage of SSBB shocks is the possibility to use progressive springs. I prefer to use Xray 2.5-2.8 in the front or 2.3-2.6 in high grip conditions combined with 2.6 or 2.7 in the rear.

Yep found that before when I got the inner camber link plates to adjust roll center just the £100 for shocks is a bit to much to spend at the mo, when I do i will get the front tower without body post to make it look cleaner

r_lud 11-17-2022 01:18 AM


Originally Posted by Eotz (Post 15957635)
I like how you placed the weights in the bumper.

yea was little light on the nose on weight distribution so just thought will it, not completely happy with shape of the front bumper plate but was cheap when I got the car and looks better then the( don't know why cheap aero ) kit plate

zleader_99 11-17-2022 01:51 AM


Originally Posted by Mirko (Post 15957523)
This is a very nicely built TT02. 👍
If you want to use SSBB shocks, the lowered shock towers from PSM would be an option.
PSM Front SSBB GT Shock Tower, Carbon 3mm - TT02S (1) - #PS02094 | PSM (psmfactory.com)
PSM Rear Wide SSBB GT Shock Tower, Carbon 3mm - TT02S (1) - #PS02096 | PSM (psmfactory.com)

Please note that this would not work well with the Yeah Racing Anti-Roll Bar Mount (TATT-034). At least in the front the upper cap on the shockbody would hit the Anti-Roll Bar in the innermost or two innermost shock mounting positions. For SSBB the Anti-Roll Bar should better be mounted in a lower position like in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw78yWGRFAg

In my opinion, the big advantage of SSBB shocks is the possibility to use progressive springs. I prefer to use Xray 2.5-2.8 in the front or 2.3-2.6 in high grip conditions combined with 2.6 or 2.7 in the rear.

Hi with the progressive srpings what oil weight would you recommend? I trying to set my tt02sr with ssbb shocks and the psm mounts. Currenly I am using 350cst with xray linear 2.7f and 2.6r. I assume you are only using the progressive in the front? I will be running on high bite black carpet. Any recommendations for outdoor tarmac? Thank you

gigaplex 11-17-2022 04:48 AM


Originally Posted by r_lud (Post 15957354)
This my tt02 costly little thing also wanna get ssbb shocks and gt lower towers but why don't they just make a trf version lol trf tt02x

That's what the TB Evo series is.

r_lud 11-17-2022 05:55 AM


Originally Posted by gigaplex (Post 15957681)
That's what the TB Evo series is.

but I mean on the tt02 platform that's tb platform so not what I was saying, trf tt02x not Tb evo

so keep the tub chassis start with a tt02sr or srx but add all the hop ups like ssbb shocks/towers , alloy steering, spur gear adapter,inner link plates, anti roll bars and droop stoppers that work on 420x suspension but keep all the nasty alloy suspension arms 🤮

Mirko 11-17-2022 01:52 PM


Originally Posted by zleader_99 (Post 15957645)
Hi with the progressive srpings what oil weight would you recommend? I trying to set my tt02sr with ssbb shocks and the psm mounts. Currenly I am using 350cst with xray linear 2.7f and 2.6r. I assume you are only using the progressive in the front? I will be running on high bite black carpet. Any recommendations for outdoor tarmac? Thank you

Indoor I prefer 450cst oil on medium grip Carpet , softer in the front if the grip is really high. Mostly I use the second hole on the inside of the front shocktower, the innermost if the grip is high. I usually switch from 2.5-2.8 to 2.3-2.6 and to the flatter damper position to prevent tracktion rolling. In the rear I use the center hole or the second from the outside to keep the car stable. Furthermore, I do a lot of fine tuning by adjusting the downstop screws and adjusting the width and time I apply the tire additive, adjusting dual rate and negative steering progression on my radio. Changing the roll center via the inner mountings of the upper control arms and changing the track width through different hexes or wheel spacers also offers good options to play around with.
Sometimes progressive springs 2.5-2.8 both front and rear work well on medium grip carpet or outdoors.
On Asphalt I use 500...550 or 600cts shock oil. Mostly 600cst on hot summer days. I have two sets of Xray SLP shocks from my T4 2015 that I use with the PSM shocktowers in the TT02. For Outdoor Racing I prepere one set with the PSS sleeves to quickly feel the difference.
Furthermore I have two 3Racing Differentials. Most times one is filled with 4000cst oil and the other one with 7000cst.
I think Tamiya now provides a better option with 22049.

I just had a look at my car. With the PSM shocktowers I'm using the outer hole on the two hole side with the rear TRF416 Y-Arms to get enough upwards travel out of the shock. (I think this is the 42mm hole measure from the inner hinge pin.) The SR Manual states the inner hole (38mm) with the original shocks and shocktowers. Also I grinded away some material on the arms to clear the spring retainers. 😉

zleader_99 11-18-2022 03:25 AM


Originally Posted by Mirko (Post 15957821)
Indoor I prefer 450cst oil on medium grip Carpet , softer in the front if the grip is really high. Mostly I use the second hole on the inside of the front shocktower, the innermost if the grip is high. I usually switch from 2.5-2.8 to 2.3-2.6 and to the flatter damper position to prevent tracktion rolling. In the rear I use the center hole or the second from the outside to keep the car stable. Furthermore, I do a lot of fine tuning by adjusting the downstop screws and adjusting the width and time I apply the tire additive, adjusting dual rate and negative steering progression on my radio. Changing the roll center via the inner mountings of the upper control arms and changing the track width through different hexes or wheel spacers also offers good options to play around with.
Sometimes progressive springs 2.5-2.8 both front and rear work well on medium grip carpet or outdoors.
On Asphalt I use 500...550 or 600cts shock oil. Mostly 600cst on hot summer days. I have two sets of Xray SLP shocks from my T4 2015 that I use with the PSM shocktowers in the TT02. For Outdoor Racing I prepere one set with the PSS sleeves to quickly feel the difference.
Furthermore I have two 3Racing Differentials. Most times one is filled with 4000cst oil and the other one with 7000cst.
I think Tamiya now provides a better option with 22049.

I just had a look at my car. With the PSM shocktowers I'm using the outer hole on the two hole side with the rear TRF416 Y-Arms to get enough upwards travel out of the shock. (I think this is the 42mm hole measure from the inner hinge pin.) The SR Manual states the inner hole (38mm) with the original shocks and shocktowers. Also I grinded away some material on the arms to clear the spring retainers. 😉

Amazing, Thank you for all the information. Much appreciated.

agentorange 11-18-2022 04:22 AM

Does anyone know if the new TT02 SRX comes with oil filled dampers or the standard friction shocks. Also has anyone heard of a release date for the car. Been trying to get as SR version but I miss out every time.

zuqbu 11-18-2022 04:55 AM


Originally Posted by agentorange (Post 15957985)
Does anyone know if the new TT02 SRX comes with oil filled dampers or the standard friction shocks. Also has anyone heard of a release date for the car. Been trying to get as SR version but I miss out every time.

The SRX will come with the CVA oil dampers, just like the SR. They are clearly identifiable on the pictures. They seem to be using different springs though, or maybe they're the same but in a different color.
Tamico's pre-order page says 20.02.2023 – https://tamico.de/Tamiya-58720-TT-02SRX-4WD-Chassis-Kit
The release date may vary a little from region to region, but no matter where you live sometime in February is a good estimate.

agentorange 11-18-2022 06:27 AM

Cool. Thank you. zuqbu

TENCHO 11-18-2022 08:28 AM


Originally Posted by agentorange (Post 15957985)
Does anyone know if the new TT02 SRX comes with oil filled dampers or the standard friction shocks. Also has anyone heard of a release date for the car. Been trying to get as SR version but I miss out every time.

SRX is coming out with the TRF420 suspension arms and cva shocks yeah? i think thats what i read on THERCRACER page


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