Proposed R.O.A.R. rules change
i say from a club race standpoint we should go back to boost after the nats! motors never got hotter than 160 or so in boost!
05-29-2011, 07:23 AM
#678
Not a big fan of No-Boost as I primarily run 12th scale.
Though this does kind of make a case for fixed timing BL motors.
I've seen the issues here with hi temps as well, sedan racers tend to crank their motors to 11 to squeeze every last ounce of rip out of them
Though this does kind of make a case for fixed timing BL motors.
I've seen the issues here with hi temps as well, sedan racers tend to crank their motors to 11 to squeeze every last ounce of rip out of them
05-29-2011, 07:34 AM
#679
I've seen more totaled chassis and motors destroyed with boost. This is in my local track and might not be the case with yours.
I have destroyed a motor with boost, never with non-boost. That's my experience.
And seen motors temp over 200 with boost when pushed.
I have destroyed a motor with boost, never with non-boost. That's my experience.
And seen motors temp over 200 with boost when pushed.
05-29-2011, 07:41 AM
#680
But... it's going to be cheaper, and make racing better, and give everyone longer lasting equipment, and make ROAR awesome, and make racing simpler, and get rid of evil laptops at race tracks, and make the races more fair, and... I could go all day. 
Interesting: When we ran no boost in WGT our temps dropped 20-30 degrees. if we geared higher the cars didn't get faster just hotter.
I guess the people that had motor problems need to remember how to gear their cars. Just like we had to learn how to not cook a motor when running boost.
In other words, just another learning curve.
I guess the people that had motor problems need to remember how to gear their cars. Just like we had to learn how to not cook a motor when running boost.
In other words, just another learning curve.
Before Boost came along, I had a motor go from 150* after 6 minutes to over 230*F after 6 minutes by going up one tooth on the pinion [64p].
People will argue the point, as will I, but temps have been much easier to keep under control, without a power disadvantage, with boost.
If you're too dumb to program an ESC [in the eyes of ROAR], what's that say for the driver who wins the Super Stock title?
05-29-2011, 08:13 AM
#681
I've over heated my motors with boost and with out boost.
05-29-2011, 08:27 AM
#682
To boost or not to boost is a total waste of time.I've raced both and have been racing since 1979 and have seen ROAR try all this stuff before. I've raced oval and on-road and both from what I see here in Sunny Hot Florida you have only the Hard Core Racers that have been racing at the tracks. Boosted- 
05-29-2011, 09:26 AM
#683
The no boost rule is designed to slow everyone down to give the new members of our hobby a chance to learn. In 1 to 1 racing, they have been using the rules to try to slow down Formula 1 racing for years, but the engineers keep figuring ways around them 
05-29-2011, 09:36 AM
#684
Sounds like they geared up to keep the same speeds they previously had boosted, with no boost. The no boost rule is designed to slow everyone down to give the new members of our hobby a chance to learn. In 1 to 1 racing, they have been using the rules to try to slow down Formula 1 racing for years, but the engineers keep figuring ways around them
The no boost rule is designed to slow everyone down to give the new members of our hobby a chance to learn. In 1 to 1 racing, they have been using the rules to try to slow down Formula 1 racing for years, but the engineers keep figuring ways around them 
05-29-2011, 10:38 AM
#685
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That’s funny....we just had our first "big" asphalt race of the year here and we had more people burn up motors with Boost then we had all winter with non-boost running on carpet. So from my POV boost is a bad thing just like you saw with non-boost. So you say one thing and have facts to back it up and so do I....so who’s right? Did you guys burn up motors because you didn’t know how to setup the gearing for non-boost because you have run boost for so long? Did the guys around here burn up motors because they haven’t run boost in over 8 months? I think the answer might be yes to both....now next time you race or when we have our next race will either of us see as many smoked motors...I would think not because the racers will have learned and adapted.
05-29-2011, 10:43 AM
#686
Just as WITH boost, without boost, before we'd ever heard of "boost"...the driver is in charge of gearing. Gear on the edge (or over) and risk falling off.
Tis as it has always been, is how it shall ever be.
Get over it.
I'll turn this one back to ya...if you're too dumb to gear properly for temperature and track conditions, what does THAT say? We've been working on gearing FAR longer than we've played with laptops at races. Hell, not THAT terribly long ago we didn't even have digital temp reading capability and managed to do just fine.
Tis as it has always been, is how it shall ever be.
Get over it.
I'll turn this one back to ya...if you're too dumb to gear properly for temperature and track conditions, what does THAT say? We've been working on gearing FAR longer than we've played with laptops at races. Hell, not THAT terribly long ago we didn't even have digital temp reading capability and managed to do just fine.
05-29-2011, 10:58 AM
#687
That’s funny....we just had our first "big" asphalt race of the year here and we had more people burn up motors with Boost then we had all winter with non-boost running on carpet. So from my POV boost is a bad thing just like you saw with non-boost. So you say one thing and have facts to back it up and so do I....so who’s right? Did you guys burn up motors because you didn’t know how to setup the gearing for non-boost because you have run boost for so long? Did the guys around here burn up motors because they haven’t run boost in over 8 months? I think the answer might be yes to both....now next time you race or when we have our next race will either of us see as many smoked motors...I would think not because the racers will have learned and adapted.
When I ran boosted I never ever got the motor hotter than 130-140 degrees in over 2 years indoors or outdoors and almost always had the fastest or one of the fastest cars on the track. Now I'm pushing 200 degrees every run and the laptimes are the same as 17.5 boosted and you cant run any motors that you cant crank a bunch of timing into them i.e. speed passions.
All I heard yesterday in the pits was grumblings of how stupid blinky was and how this is going to be an expensive summer.
When we ran boosted I would put a normal setup on my Tekin and gear it any which way and it would always be fast. I could go up or down 5 teeth and it would still be fast and not really get that hot as long as my speedo settings were set properly. Now one tooth or a couple of degrees of motor timing and it lets out the smoke.
I'm pretty experienced on gearing and motor setup in 13.5 non timing I did win a Reedy race with over 100 entries in the class running that exact same setup just different equipment.
Its funny hearing all the different experiences with boost and non boost in different parts of the country.
But I think us North Easterners are all pretty much in agreement that blinky is Ehh at best.
05-29-2011, 11:45 AM
#688
First off we have been running non boost all outdoor season so far. Like 6 weeks so far. And the guys running 17.5 have been running non boost all indoor season also. But our larger outdoor track and temps in the 90's yesterday all contributed to the burning up of motors. Its hard to gear for the long straight and also have good speed in the infield. On indoor tracks its not as difficult because they are 100 feet long at the most.
When I ran boosted I never ever got the motor hotter than 130-140 degrees in over 2 years indoors or outdoors and almost always had the fastest or one of the fastest cars on the track. Now I'm pushing 200 degrees every run and the laptimes are the same as 17.5 boosted and you cant run any motors that you cant crank a bunch of timing into them i.e. speed passions.
All I heard yesterday in the pits was grumblings of how stupid blinky was and how this is going to be an expensive summer.
When we ran boosted I would put a normal setup on my Tekin and gear it any which way and it would always be fast. I could go up or down 5 teeth and it would still be fast and not really get that hot as long as my speedo settings were set properly. Now one tooth or a couple of degrees of motor timing and it lets out the smoke.
I'm pretty experienced on gearing and motor setup in 13.5 non timing I did win a Reedy race with over 100 entries in the class running that exact same setup just different equipment.
Its funny hearing all the different experiences with boost and non boost in different parts of the country.
But I think us North Easterners are all pretty much in agreement that blinky is Ehh at best.
When I ran boosted I never ever got the motor hotter than 130-140 degrees in over 2 years indoors or outdoors and almost always had the fastest or one of the fastest cars on the track. Now I'm pushing 200 degrees every run and the laptimes are the same as 17.5 boosted and you cant run any motors that you cant crank a bunch of timing into them i.e. speed passions.
All I heard yesterday in the pits was grumblings of how stupid blinky was and how this is going to be an expensive summer.
When we ran boosted I would put a normal setup on my Tekin and gear it any which way and it would always be fast. I could go up or down 5 teeth and it would still be fast and not really get that hot as long as my speedo settings were set properly. Now one tooth or a couple of degrees of motor timing and it lets out the smoke.
I'm pretty experienced on gearing and motor setup in 13.5 non timing I did win a Reedy race with over 100 entries in the class running that exact same setup just different equipment.
Its funny hearing all the different experiences with boost and non boost in different parts of the country.
But I think us North Easterners are all pretty much in agreement that blinky is Ehh at best.
05-29-2011, 12:19 PM
#689
Tech Fanatic
First off we have been running non boost all outdoor season so far. Like 6 weeks so far. And the guys running 17.5 have been running non boost all indoor season also. But our larger outdoor track and temps in the 90's yesterday all contributed to the burning up of motors. Its hard to gear for the long straight and also have good speed in the infield. On indoor tracks its not as difficult because they are 100 feet long at the most.
When I ran boosted I never ever got the motor hotter than 130-140 degrees in over 2 years indoors or outdoors and almost always had the fastest or one of the fastest cars on the track. Now I'm pushing 200 degrees every run and the laptimes are the same as 17.5 boosted and you cant run any motors that you cant crank a bunch of timing into them i.e. speed passions.
All I heard yesterday in the pits was grumblings of how stupid blinky was and how this is going to be an expensive summer.
When we ran boosted I would put a normal setup on my Tekin and gear it any which way and it would always be fast. I could go up or down 5 teeth and it would still be fast and not really get that hot as long as my speedo settings were set properly. Now one tooth or a couple of degrees of motor timing and it lets out the smoke.
I'm pretty experienced on gearing and motor setup in 13.5 non timing I did win a Reedy race with over 100 entries in the class running that exact same setup just different equipment.
Its funny hearing all the different experiences with boost and non boost in different parts of the country.
But I think us North Easterners are all pretty much in agreement that blinky is Ehh at best.
When I ran boosted I never ever got the motor hotter than 130-140 degrees in over 2 years indoors or outdoors and almost always had the fastest or one of the fastest cars on the track. Now I'm pushing 200 degrees every run and the laptimes are the same as 17.5 boosted and you cant run any motors that you cant crank a bunch of timing into them i.e. speed passions.
All I heard yesterday in the pits was grumblings of how stupid blinky was and how this is going to be an expensive summer.
When we ran boosted I would put a normal setup on my Tekin and gear it any which way and it would always be fast. I could go up or down 5 teeth and it would still be fast and not really get that hot as long as my speedo settings were set properly. Now one tooth or a couple of degrees of motor timing and it lets out the smoke.
I'm pretty experienced on gearing and motor setup in 13.5 non timing I did win a Reedy race with over 100 entries in the class running that exact same setup just different equipment.
Its funny hearing all the different experiences with boost and non boost in different parts of the country.
But I think us North Easterners are all pretty much in agreement that blinky is Ehh at best.
"Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. When change is absolute there remains no being to improve and no direction is set for possible improvement: and when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. In the first stage of life the mind is frivolous and easily distracted, it misses progress by failing in consecutiveness and persistence. This is the condition of children and barbarians, in which instinct has learned nothing from experience."
Perhaps for Larry and me, the experience (of the old BR days, and how that took us to BL to save the costs of blown motors) is retained? It seems odd to me from this side of the pond that the country that believes totally in market forces cannot leave both alternatives open, and let the market decide.
