RCGT....Where is it at now?
06-10-2010, 12:03 PM
#91
Tech Adept
Man, I feel your pain but I gotta tell you....If you're wasting D or Pro compound tires at that rate there's a bigger problem. The other concept behind the chosen tires was to slow things down and not to have to contend with choosing inserts. way to complicated for many. No, the grip offered by the X-Patterns may not be on par with slicks but thats the point !! You have to drive within the limits of the tires. All of us who race VTA can attest to that. 
People are going to use what works to win.
06-10-2010, 12:28 PM
#92
Ok, I'll give someone a chance to make a point for a tire change. Can anyone recommend a slick tire available in different compounds or even just one compound that would be good for every type of track and conditions WITH stock inserts AND thats 26mm in size??
Why 26mm....the answer is wheels. I don't know of any 24mm wheels that are available in as many designs. If you take the wheel selections away from RCGT you take away some of the appeal.
Educate me.
Why 26mm....the answer is wheels. I don't know of any 24mm wheels that are available in as many designs. If you take the wheel selections away from RCGT you take away some of the appeal.
Educate me.
06-10-2010, 12:39 PM
#93
http://www.hpiracing.com/hpitires/touring/
That is the link for the tire ranges. And in case people do not like gluing their own tires, HPI sells them pre-mounted as well. However the choice of rims are sub-par.
But to make gluing tires easier, you can buy very inexpensive tools like this from Amainhobbies.com:
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...uring-Car-Mini
I've used such a tool way way back and it works very well. You put the mounted tire and wheel into the contraption, and then put the top part on the tire. From there, press down and the top part will open up the tire's seams and you dab your glue on the tire from there. Lift the top part off, and the tire goes right into place evenly and securely. I just can't find this thing in stock at any local hobby store.
As far as a spec chassis, I was thinking more in lines of if people want to stay in the class permanently and an expert class is made for RCGT that includes balls to the walls settings on their ESC and motor. But whatever, valid points are made for people that want to progress into the TC arena.
That is the link for the tire ranges. And in case people do not like gluing their own tires, HPI sells them pre-mounted as well. However the choice of rims are sub-par.
But to make gluing tires easier, you can buy very inexpensive tools like this from Amainhobbies.com:
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...uring-Car-Mini
I've used such a tool way way back and it works very well. You put the mounted tire and wheel into the contraption, and then put the top part on the tire. From there, press down and the top part will open up the tire's seams and you dab your glue on the tire from there. Lift the top part off, and the tire goes right into place evenly and securely. I just can't find this thing in stock at any local hobby store.
As far as a spec chassis, I was thinking more in lines of if people want to stay in the class permanently and an expert class is made for RCGT that includes balls to the walls settings on their ESC and motor. But whatever, valid points are made for people that want to progress into the TC arena.
06-10-2010, 12:48 PM
#94
Looks to me like HPI offers 2 slick tires in 26mm width. A pro compound and a racing compound..both belted. Part #s 4415 and 4435
So is this what you guys were thinking about ???
If so, You've got my vote. At the very least it couldn't be any worse than the x-patterns and you still have a choice of compounds for different conditions.
Anybody tried them ??
So is this what you guys were thinking about ???
If so, You've got my vote. At the very least it couldn't be any worse than the x-patterns and you still have a choice of compounds for different conditions.
Anybody tried them ??
06-10-2010, 12:54 PM
#95
Ignoring the yearly attendance drop-off due to summer, RCGT was actually becoming our biggest class, and nearly overtook VTA on a regular basis. Our track is fairly large, so the guys that were getting bored with VTA started to race RCGT because it was faster.
Here are the rules we ran:
HPI body rules
HPI tire rules
17.5 motor (any brand)
Restrictions on ESC:
--200 or less on Tekin w/turbo
--No Black Diamonds
Any 1/10 TC chassis
Any 5000 or less LiPo
This created a class that was about 1.5-2 seconds faster per lap than VTA, but was also about 2 seconds slower per lap than stock rubber TC, so it made for a nice stepping stone. It gave both the slower AND faster guys a fun 2nd class to race in.
As for tires not lasting long....... BULLCRAP, at least with regards to racing on carpet. I ran non-belted Pro compounds for the first 8 weeks (8 race days and 3 practice days), then used 14-month-old asphalt set of belted tires from a friend to finish the last 4 weeks (I placed 1st overall). For the first 8 weeks I was the only person in the top 5-6 that used a non-belted tire, so they can work just as well with the right setup.
The hot speed control setup was an SPX on profile 7, a Novak SS motor with stock timing, and a 4.X FDR.
We were averaging 7-10 per week, and upwards of 14-16 on busy nights.
I have heard of tracks spec'ing Jaco Blues instead of HPI tires with great results (all other rules remaining the same, of course), since they are slightly cheaper and as stated before make the transition to standard TC much easier.
Just my two cents!
Here are the rules we ran:
HPI body rules
HPI tire rules
17.5 motor (any brand)
Restrictions on ESC:
--200 or less on Tekin w/turbo
--No Black Diamonds
Any 1/10 TC chassis
Any 5000 or less LiPo
This created a class that was about 1.5-2 seconds faster per lap than VTA, but was also about 2 seconds slower per lap than stock rubber TC, so it made for a nice stepping stone. It gave both the slower AND faster guys a fun 2nd class to race in.
As for tires not lasting long....... BULLCRAP, at least with regards to racing on carpet. I ran non-belted Pro compounds for the first 8 weeks (8 race days and 3 practice days), then used 14-month-old asphalt set of belted tires from a friend to finish the last 4 weeks (I placed 1st overall). For the first 8 weeks I was the only person in the top 5-6 that used a non-belted tire, so they can work just as well with the right setup.
The hot speed control setup was an SPX on profile 7, a Novak SS motor with stock timing, and a 4.X FDR.
We were averaging 7-10 per week, and upwards of 14-16 on busy nights.
I have heard of tracks spec'ing Jaco Blues instead of HPI tires with great results (all other rules remaining the same, of course), since they are slightly cheaper and as stated before make the transition to standard TC much easier.
Just my two cents!
06-10-2010, 01:04 PM
#96
So if the slick tires were used instead of the treaded it really wouldn't make much of a difference. Correct ??
06-10-2010, 01:13 PM
#97
But yeah, those are the tires provided by HPI and there are slicks in there as well as pre-mounted wheels and tires.
I really do not see the purpose in going with JACO blues or greens if the goal is to scale realism in this racing arena.
06-10-2010, 01:16 PM
#98
I can't see how that is true. Slicks provide more rubber surface area contact with the track. How does it provide less traction, unless it has a high center groove that lifts the rest of the tire from contacting the surface.
But yeah, those are the tires provided by HPI and there are slicks in there as well as pre-mounted wheels and tires.
I really do not see the purpose in going with JACO blues or greens if the goal is to scale realism in this racing arena.
But yeah, those are the tires provided by HPI and there are slicks in there as well as pre-mounted wheels and tires.
I really do not see the purpose in going with JACO blues or greens if the goal is to scale realism in this racing arena.
The slicks would only help...even if its only a little and the guys who've had problems with tread wear wouldn't have to worry about that anymore. Then again, slicks can wear badly too. I kinda like the idea of using slicks. I always wondered why the original decision was for treads. Maybe a realism thing for the more "street" car look?
06-10-2010, 01:24 PM
#99
Thats actually my point. The slicks would only help...even if its only a little and the guys who've had problems with tread wear wouldn't have to worry about that anymore. Then again, slicks can wear badly too. I kinda like the idea ogf using slicks. I always wondered why the original decision was for treads. Maybe a realism thing for the more "street" car look?
The slicks would only help...even if its only a little and the guys who've had problems with tread wear wouldn't have to worry about that anymore. Then again, slicks can wear badly too. I kinda like the idea ogf using slicks. I always wondered why the original decision was for treads. Maybe a realism thing for the more "street" car look?
06-10-2010, 01:31 PM
#100
Hey Guys, lets keep in mind, RCGT is a brand HPI created and is TRADEMARKED. So in order for it to be a TRUE RCGT class, the HPi Xpatterns is a must.
This doesn't mean it is the BIBLE of the realistic, scale classes, but it is a place to get a realistic, scale class started.
I understand there is a cost factor, etc...but i think in the spirit of RCGT, it was really meant for the guys who were NOT that hardcore, who loved real looking cars, and didn't expect to buy new sets of tires every run.
With that being said, RCGT should be a TRUE SPORTSMAN'S class. If ultimate speed and grip is what you are looking for, then the regular TC class is the one for you. If you are looking to be sponsored, the TC class is the way to go. I think RCGT is more of an enthusiast's class.
Now, obviously different race programs have different rules and that is understandable due to availability, etc. But i think the basics of RCGT should always be the platform for a successfull GT Class. If i made the rules universally, i would not allow the boosted esc's for this class and keep it non boosted, then again, all tracks are different.
If some tracks are considering using other tires rather than the XPATTERNS, then probably a name change is in order and keep the RCGT name/class and its integrity intact. The last thing you want to do is stray so far from it's original state that the class gets lost or saturated. That will be the END of RCGT.
I'd be glad to answer any questions regarding this. I think Bringing back the SCALE LOOK saved On-Road. It shouldn't be a difficult or complicated class, putting in a bunch of rules will just turn people off. If we keep it simple, consistent and FUN, any race program will Flourish.
THanx,
CB
This doesn't mean it is the BIBLE of the realistic, scale classes, but it is a place to get a realistic, scale class started.
I understand there is a cost factor, etc...but i think in the spirit of RCGT, it was really meant for the guys who were NOT that hardcore, who loved real looking cars, and didn't expect to buy new sets of tires every run.
With that being said, RCGT should be a TRUE SPORTSMAN'S class. If ultimate speed and grip is what you are looking for, then the regular TC class is the one for you. If you are looking to be sponsored, the TC class is the way to go. I think RCGT is more of an enthusiast's class.
Now, obviously different race programs have different rules and that is understandable due to availability, etc. But i think the basics of RCGT should always be the platform for a successfull GT Class. If i made the rules universally, i would not allow the boosted esc's for this class and keep it non boosted, then again, all tracks are different.
If some tracks are considering using other tires rather than the XPATTERNS, then probably a name change is in order and keep the RCGT name/class and its integrity intact. The last thing you want to do is stray so far from it's original state that the class gets lost or saturated. That will be the END of RCGT.
I'd be glad to answer any questions regarding this. I think Bringing back the SCALE LOOK saved On-Road. It shouldn't be a difficult or complicated class, putting in a bunch of rules will just turn people off. If we keep it simple, consistent and FUN, any race program will Flourish.
THanx,
CB
06-10-2010, 02:04 PM
#101
Charlie, thanks for chiming in. I think what you're saying is very true...to an extent. This thread has been great to aire out some opinions based on what a cross section of racers are feeling. Overall, it appears that the existing RCGT rules aren't to far from what most think it should be. I mentioned earlier that the chassis, body and wheels/tires weren't really being questioned. Realism is still number 1. Suggestions regarding wings came up but I think those are minor issues that don't necessarily need a revamp.
That being said, I don't see how the change in tires would violate any agreements with HPI. The suggested tires are stll HPI brand but might alleviate some concerns that also might be contributing to any decrease in class participation. Obviously,that would be brought up to HPI management first.
I think the big thing is to take a second look at the rules and adjust for whats happened in the market + look at how to make the program MORE appealing to a broader user base.
I for one have been pretty outspoken about the 17.5 being the only choice. You mentioned the integrity of the class. I agree...but its not the integrity I'm questioning. Simply the ability of more drivers to enjoy that aspect. 17.5 is simply to fast for many people. I speak as a race director and for myself. A large percentage of our drivers are newbies who neither have the driving skill or the setup skill to handle a 17.5. In addition, The distance between RCGT and TC is much to close. Especially with open ESC's. You're right, if drivers want that level of investment and speed, they should concentrate on TC.
So what I'm proposing is a sportsman addition to the class using 21.5 with closed esc's and an expert class using 17.5 with closed esc's. Make it the rule and provide RCGT with some guidance so we can concentrate on all those things that you mentioned RCGT was supposed to be. This isn't a huge departure from where we're already at. Although I do suggest a second look at the tire choice. I think some of the comments about them are pretty valid.
That being said, I don't see how the change in tires would violate any agreements with HPI. The suggested tires are stll HPI brand but might alleviate some concerns that also might be contributing to any decrease in class participation. Obviously,that would be brought up to HPI management first.
I think the big thing is to take a second look at the rules and adjust for whats happened in the market + look at how to make the program MORE appealing to a broader user base.
I for one have been pretty outspoken about the 17.5 being the only choice. You mentioned the integrity of the class. I agree...but its not the integrity I'm questioning. Simply the ability of more drivers to enjoy that aspect. 17.5 is simply to fast for many people. I speak as a race director and for myself. A large percentage of our drivers are newbies who neither have the driving skill or the setup skill to handle a 17.5. In addition, The distance between RCGT and TC is much to close. Especially with open ESC's. You're right, if drivers want that level of investment and speed, they should concentrate on TC.
So what I'm proposing is a sportsman addition to the class using 21.5 with closed esc's and an expert class using 17.5 with closed esc's. Make it the rule and provide RCGT with some guidance so we can concentrate on all those things that you mentioned RCGT was supposed to be. This isn't a huge departure from where we're already at. Although I do suggest a second look at the tire choice.
I think some of the comments about them are pretty valid.
06-10-2010, 02:14 PM
#102
What about keeping the vta rules to a degree and having to lrp guys running profile 1-4 and have the tekin guys running 183 etc. but keep the motor at 17.5. The differences between the two classes would be the motor, tires/wheels, and the body. In my opinion, why not run Jaco blues because they are cheap and they last. It's not like you are going to be admiring the rims as the car is driving. They will just look white instead of the chrome or black. Its only going to make a difference to the people walking around the pits looking at others cars. but for the drivers it is a tire that will work in many places and it is easy on the wallet. Just my opinion.
06-10-2010, 02:32 PM
#103
The X patterns are fine, the tire wear is more of the foam insert being used.
HPI should open up the tire rule allowing molded inserts. Also limit the the speedo to fixed timing.
Maybe cross breed some series races such as the Citrix Spec with RCGT. These two series are basically the same enthusiast looking to have fun on a budget.
HPI should open up the tire rule allowing molded inserts. Also limit the the speedo to fixed timing.
Maybe cross breed some series races such as the Citrix Spec with RCGT. These two series are basically the same enthusiast looking to have fun on a budget.
06-10-2010, 02:39 PM
#104
Good ideas but I think it comes down to the central theme of RCGT....realism. Part of the attraction to RCGt is "cool factor". May sound corny but thats the way it is. I personally like putting a set of cool rims on my car. I also think there's a few people who like the idea of concours being a part of RCGT. Honestly, the expense for tires and wheels in RCGt is kind of an accepted part of the class. Then again, I strongly agree that its no fun to watch the tread get worn off in 1 day of racing. If you change that aspect alone, a set of tires would go quite a ways. the VTA guys are proof of that but keep in mind one big factor.....there not going as fast with a 21.5 or 25.5 as RCGT is with a 17.5. Another reason we should slow things down a bit and if 17.5 is here to stay as the standard...change to a slick so tire wear isn't as pronounced. 1 other minor point that someone else brought up and its a good one....real touring cars are seldom on treaded tires and especially not a street tread.
BTW, happened to have a set of those slicks new in the package (#4435) and noticed they don't come with inserts. When I bought them I did actually buy the molded insert that was suggested.
BTW, happened to have a set of those slicks new in the package (#4435) and noticed they don't come with inserts. When I bought them I did actually buy the molded insert that was suggested.
06-10-2010, 03:20 PM
#105
The X patterns are fine, the tire wear is more of the foam insert being used.
HPI should open up the tire rule allowing molded inserts. Also limit the the speedo to fixed timing.
Maybe cross breed some series races such as the Citrix Spec with RCGT. These two series are basically the same enthusiast looking to have fun on a budget.
HPI should open up the tire rule allowing molded inserts. Also limit the the speedo to fixed timing.
Maybe cross breed some series races such as the Citrix Spec with RCGT. These two series are basically the same enthusiast looking to have fun on a budget.
If I were king:
1. Offer a limited selection of fixed timing ESCs - folks may already have existing older units that can be re-purposed for this class thus reducing that expense.
2. Offer a limited selection of slick tire brands/compounds - pick a brand known for long wear and good traction (I have been alternating between two sets of Sorex 36s for over a year, still working good enough
). Different compounds available for different weather conditions/geographic regions. Added bonus for the truly cheap bastards (like me 
), I can use them on any of the TC classes if I had to. 3. Keep the rest of the rules the same (including the 17.5 motor).
4. Go RACE
Cost effective and simple.
