Ernest Provetti Open letter to RC Industry
01-14-2010, 09:15 PM
#61
There does not necessarily have to be a motor tied to the classes. Everyone thinks motor=class, but if you say "sportsman", that's what it is, a skill level. Whether it's 17.5, 21.5, or 3.5, the idea is a skill level. In the past, it has been a motor class, but generally, that just encourages sandbagging at some point.
The other consideration is that sportsman off road buggy could be 17.5, and sportsman touring car could be 21.5, offering a more appropriate power plant for each style of racing. Even within onroad, a sportsman motor might vary in consideration of a 150 x 80 asphalt track vs. a 80x40 carpet track.
Just consider what positive changes can be made besides what an inconvenience it may be. I know personally what an uproar may rise over changes like this
but sometimes you have to try something different. Maybe this move and a national points system (*cough* *cough*) and we might actually have a ladder that makes sense to drivers.
The other consideration is that sportsman off road buggy could be 17.5, and sportsman touring car could be 21.5, offering a more appropriate power plant for each style of racing. Even within onroad, a sportsman motor might vary in consideration of a 150 x 80 asphalt track vs. a 80x40 carpet track.
Just consider what positive changes can be made besides what an inconvenience it may be. I know personally what an uproar may rise over changes like this
but sometimes you have to try something different. Maybe this move and a national points system (*cough* *cough*) and we might actually have a ladder that makes sense to drivers.
01-14-2010, 09:48 PM
#62
If they changed sportsman to 21.5 for the NATS I would fully support it.
I was just about to sell all my stuff because 17.5 got way to fast for me and I wasn't having fun. I'm an out of pocket racer so my only reason to race is for fun. It's not like I ever win =). Only reason I didn't sell is because NATS are at my home track and I wanted to support the owner.
Just run 4 classes. Sportsman, Superstock, Prostock, Mod. Pick the motor wind for the classes 2 months before the event and require all ESC's and firmwares to be available 3 months prior to event for use. This would give the hosting track 30 days with any new equipment to test and decide what would be a good fit for their track...
I was just about to sell all my stuff because 17.5 got way to fast for me and I wasn't having fun. I'm an out of pocket racer so my only reason to race is for fun. It's not like I ever win =). Only reason I didn't sell is because NATS are at my home track and I wanted to support the owner.
Just run 4 classes. Sportsman, Superstock, Prostock, Mod. Pick the motor wind for the classes 2 months before the event and require all ESC's and firmwares to be available 3 months prior to event for use. This would give the hosting track 30 days with any new equipment to test and decide what would be a good fit for their track...
01-14-2010, 09:52 PM
#63
Way to go EP! We should have done that years ago.If the manufacturers stick with the plan it will work.For all of you guys complaining about the motors and ESC.The better and faster mouse trap is always just around the corner.No matter what motor or ESC you start with they will get faster.
First you have to START the program. What you do locally at club races has nothing to do with the Nationals.If you come up something that workd for your club stick with it. If it does not quite a match up to what they do at the nationals- that's why a club race is a level 1 and a National a 4. You can change your club races to suit your club and then you publish it.
But then how many out there on this thread are actually a ROAR member or race at a ROAR club event. By the way I'm ROAR#7540 what's your Number?
First you have to START the program. What you do locally at club races has nothing to do with the Nationals.If you come up something that workd for your club stick with it. If it does not quite a match up to what they do at the nationals- that's why a club race is a level 1 and a National a 4. You can change your club races to suit your club and then you publish it.
But then how many out there on this thread are actually a ROAR member or race at a ROAR club event. By the way I'm ROAR#7540 what's your Number?
01-15-2010, 12:08 AM
#67
Even in formula racing the classes are not only sorted by driver level but by engine as well...you can't run a F1 engine in F2 and so forth.
01-15-2010, 12:44 AM
#68
Team Epic's Letter is right on point!
I am so glad this came from the team I am a part of. I was picked up by Team Epic at the end of last year. I am on their 50% team. I can tell you the best part about RC racing is helping people at the track and getting new people involved.
The only way this hobby can get back to what it was, is by going back to the basics. Cut down on the classes and cut out superstock or 19turn! That class used to be modified back in the day!
Also the costs have to come down in this hobby! Most people want to race competitively but can't afford the tires, hotels, gas, etc. This is the big factor why numbers are down....
For example, California is getting a 1/10 Offroad Electric Roar Regional the same weekend of the Cactus Classic! Seriously.... The Cactus Classic is a world Class Event! Most of the region's top drivers will be in Arizona that weekend! Too many big races throughout the year!
I think we will be seeing more rule changes in the future with experienced and sponsored drivers!
Jeremy Flint
The only way this hobby can get back to what it was, is by going back to the basics. Cut down on the classes and cut out superstock or 19turn! That class used to be modified back in the day!
Also the costs have to come down in this hobby! Most people want to race competitively but can't afford the tires, hotels, gas, etc. This is the big factor why numbers are down....
For example, California is getting a 1/10 Offroad Electric Roar Regional the same weekend of the Cactus Classic! Seriously.... The Cactus Classic is a world Class Event! Most of the region's top drivers will be in Arizona that weekend! Too many big races throughout the year!
I think we will be seeing more rule changes in the future with experienced and sponsored drivers!
Jeremy Flint
01-15-2010, 02:06 AM
#69
LOL, what did i say a couple mths back about 25.5? well thats a poetic note...
hey everyone, come to offroad or dirt oval! they dont have these problems! join ur brothers and sisters comin out on the dirt en mass!
changing motors etc again to 21.5 then next mth 25.5... look at those trans am (not vta, but trans am) Natzis who complain bout that for those new rules they have just shy of a yr to deal with. u think ur gonna tellin touring and perhaps 1/12 classes to deal with that here and now.....RIP club onroad, or was it already given its last rites?
R
hey everyone, come to offroad or dirt oval! they dont have these problems! join ur brothers and sisters comin out on the dirt en mass!
changing motors etc again to 21.5 then next mth 25.5... look at those trans am (not vta, but trans am) Natzis who complain bout that for those new rules they have just shy of a yr to deal with. u think ur gonna tellin touring and perhaps 1/12 classes to deal with that here and now.....RIP club onroad, or was it already given its last rites?
R
01-15-2010, 04:20 AM
#70
I somewhat disagree with those that say this and slowing the sportsman class down are separate discussions. In his note Ernie says:
"something which will be very good for the growth and health of our industry and something that has been needed for a long time"
and
"has a chance to become a successful and viable entry level class again."
but honestly when someone is looking to join our great hobby is the first thing they think about become "gee I'm not sure I want to join because some of the NATIONAL level events allow sponsored drivers in their slowest class". I would guess that crosses the mind of exactly 0%.
Now when people do join probably nearly 100% of them think they can do this with no problem or wonder if they can do it. I know if I saw today's 17.5 run and was told that was the slowest TC class I could be in I might think twice about if I wanted to join the hobby.
So is ROAR really focusing on the right issues to grow our hobby? I don't know. We haven't heard much on their thoughts in slowing things down. I'm sure its being discussed just wish we knew more about what the thoughts are.
"something which will be very good for the growth and health of our industry and something that has been needed for a long time"
and
"has a chance to become a successful and viable entry level class again."
but honestly when someone is looking to join our great hobby is the first thing they think about become "gee I'm not sure I want to join because some of the NATIONAL level events allow sponsored drivers in their slowest class". I would guess that crosses the mind of exactly 0%.
Now when people do join probably nearly 100% of them think they can do this with no problem or wonder if they can do it. I know if I saw today's 17.5 run and was told that was the slowest TC class I could be in I might think twice about if I wanted to join the hobby.
So is ROAR really focusing on the right issues to grow our hobby? I don't know. We haven't heard much on their thoughts in slowing things down. I'm sure its being discussed just wish we knew more about what the thoughts are.
01-15-2010, 05:27 AM
#71
slow it down or leave it the same. I don't know that it matters. I think what would make a difference is to have a class for the non sponsored guys. but to take 17.5 and say that is sportsman and you 50% off'rs you need to just run what the big boys run, that does not make for good racing and more to the fact, you ROAR are basically taking probably your biggest part of you membership and telling them, "well we don't care bout you for now". you have just thrown them into the deep end of the pool without teaching them to swim.
I am a 50% Off'rs, for the Roar Nats I will be able to spend $2k+ to go race Dumas, Paul L, and Josh, because that is the only class now that I am allowed to run. that makes a whole lot of sense.
If you want to promote RC Car Racing, I think you may need to look at the whole picture, not just what will gain you new membership, but also to keep your existing members. there are 2 ways to grow, you gotta look at both
I am a 50% Off'rs, for the Roar Nats I will be able to spend $2k+ to go race Dumas, Paul L, and Josh, because that is the only class now that I am allowed to run. that makes a whole lot of sense.
If you want to promote RC Car Racing, I think you may need to look at the whole picture, not just what will gain you new membership, but also to keep your existing members. there are 2 ways to grow, you gotta look at both
01-15-2010, 05:50 AM
#73
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slow it down or leave it the same. I don't know that it matters. I think what would make a difference is to have a class for the non sponsored guys. but to take 17.5 and say that is sportsman and you 50% off'rs you need to just run what the big boys run, that does not make for good racing and more to the fact, you ROAR are basically taking probably your biggest part of you membership and telling them, "well we don't care bout you for now". you have just thrown them into the deep end of the pool without teaching them to swim.
I am a 50% Off'rs, for the Roar Nats I will be able to spend $2k+ to go race Dumas, Paul L, and Josh, because that is the only class now that I am allowed to run. that makes a whole lot of sense.
If you want to promote RC Car Racing, I think you may need to look at the whole picture, not just what will gain you new membership, but also to keep your existing members. there are 2 ways to grow, you gotta look at both
I am a 50% Off'rs, for the Roar Nats I will be able to spend $2k+ to go race Dumas, Paul L, and Josh, because that is the only class now that I am allowed to run. that makes a whole lot of sense.
If you want to promote RC Car Racing, I think you may need to look at the whole picture, not just what will gain you new membership, but also to keep your existing members. there are 2 ways to grow, you gotta look at both
01-15-2010, 05:58 AM
#74
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It's about time somebody with balls step up to the plate. This should have been done a long time ago hope it's not to late to make a change. I've been in rc racing for well over 25 years and i always said that there should be a class just for the new guys that are getting into rc. When i first got into rc it was back in the day at vineland NJ there was a big race going on and I remember that I told my dad that I want to go fast just like those guys.And I remember a guy walk up to me and said that you need alot of time to do what they are doing and it takes skill. that guy was MR Ernie P with his side kick Tony P. I hope that they can make this happen as for I see the rc is not the same any more. Look at where we are right now you need to have 10 years in computers and lap top just so you can get your speedo to work. Lets go back to the old days with 2 servos and a wiper arm for your speedo.In the last few weeks I heard of 5-10 people getting out of RC for that reason where not racing RC cars we are now racing speedos P.S. does anybody have a set-up for 12th scale speedo. What happen to car set up and just go out and learn how to drive the track..
01-15-2010, 05:58 AM
#75
dude the rules arent set in stone yet..its all a suggestion, buut yes those of you that are sponsored need to be in a different class..plain and simple...and therre wont only be 2 classes...im sure there will be a class for you to run in..but there is no reason for you to be running with the unsponsored people...look at iic again, the amatuer class has been one of the biggest classes...no one is saying you cant run 17.5...the point is that you shouldnt be running with the unsponsored guys or girls and doing it to win a trophy, this sport will never grow if this continues to happen
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