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Old 12-15-2009, 02:00 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by stiltskin View Post
This is kind of funny. The only guy at our track who has traction roll problems is running an Mi4.

Photon - Good
TC5 - Good
RDX - Good
T3 - Good
Mi4 - Traction roll
This was actually a dig at sammy, who routinely pops into schumacher threads with such enlightening advice as "toilet" and "junk".


All of the cars you mentioned are fairly close geometry wise, and in theory should all be capable, its really up to the setup and driver.
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Old 12-15-2009, 02:01 PM   #32
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I couldn't disagree more. Softening up suspension delays the maximum cornering load, thus delaying the traction roll. I won't bore everyone with a rehash of the Type-R thread, but my traction rolling issue is well documented over there and the things we did to cure it worked quite well.

Your suggestion to stiffen the suspension assumes that the tire's traction can be breached at some point during the corner. However, B18C Turbo lives in New England, land of spec rubber tire touring cars on CRC carpet and odorless traction compounds. The bite there is literally sticky, and breaching that is next to impossible.


Letting the car roll is also key to preventing the outside tires from reaching maximum loading, so adding roll stiffness is completely backwards.

Guys, consider this. What does a touring car do in the moment right before it traction rolls? It bicycles. That two wheeled circus stunt places the entire weight of the car on the two outside tires. With weight comes traction. That traction spike flips the car over. Doing anything that reduces droop, constricts suspension movement, or otherwise quickens tire loading is counterproductive.

Some of the more important things I did to cure my traction roll (and win) on carpet with rubber tires:
-lay the shocks down
-reduce camber
-reduce roll stiffness (springs and swaybars)
-adjust dampening to delay maximum loading (in my case, I had to increase front dampening to get through the sweeper without traction rolling, used a ton of rebound to improve transitional response)
-lower roll centers
-reduce caster (Paulie's trick)
-add droop to all four corners (thanks Fairtrace)

All of this info looks to be exactly the way I would attack a traction roll problem.
Never..........ever go to a stiffer front spring to stop a traction roll.
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Old 12-15-2009, 02:15 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by jag88 View Post
+2
Soften the suspension so that it can absorb the cornering load and not put it into the wheels/tires. A stiffer suspension transfers that load right to the tire and over you go ....
+3


I'm running rubber touring, and we only race on spec tyres with oderless sticky juice, mostly jack the gripper, LRP or CS high grip.

Soften the springs and oil, laying down the dampers, lowering roll center, first on the camber links, then on the suspensions arms, but my favorit is gluing the sidewalls!

Keep on racing
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Old 12-15-2009, 02:16 PM   #34
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all this information is directed to the RUBBER TIRE T/C crowd correct???

Thankx, Bill
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Old 12-15-2009, 02:55 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by B18C Turbo View Post
This could be applied to any car, but im talking about 1/10 TC. What are
some steps you guys take once you discover your car doesn't wanna stay glue'd to the track when the grip comes up fast? Lets say for example
your forced to stay with 1 set of tires, what type of setup changes do you make?
The simple solution is to go up a spring rate in front and/or go down a spring rate in the rear.

If I'm in a race when the car starts lifting the inside tires or actually traction rolling, I let off the throttle a bit early and add some throttle power through the corner.
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:11 PM   #36
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Cool tuning tips for T.R.

I noticed nobody mentioned making sure the balance of the car is correct.
This is probably one of the no brainer ways to help eliminate traction roll.
Especially if you are running Lipo batteries the balance can be way off and this will cause the car to tip over very easily. How about adding weight to one side or the other depending on if it's rolling over in one direction,i.e. if the car TR's to the right add weight on the left side if it TR's to the left add weight to the right side. Seems logical? If it traction rolls in both directions add weight at certain points of the lower deck and this might help keep the car from rolling over!
Just my 2$
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:24 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by MikeXray View Post
This was actually a dig at sammy, who routinely pops into schumacher threads with such enlightening advice as "toilet" and "junk".


All of the cars you mentioned are fairly close geometry wise, and in theory should all be capable, its really up to the setup and driver.
I agree. It's good to see several different brands at our track. Corally vs Xray was getting just as old as TC3 vs XXX-S.
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:31 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Josh Hohnstein View Post
All of this info looks to be exactly the way I would attack a traction roll problem.
Never..........ever go to a stiffer front spring to stop a traction roll.
Hohnstein and Sharpe have dialed in the Correct.
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Old 12-15-2009, 08:27 PM   #39
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This is true to a point, but you can also be too soft just as you can be too stiff.
yep, I agree ...
I guess that's where experience comes in.
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Old 01-10-2010, 08:34 AM   #40
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There are some very good points here.

I have seen some people run some weird droop settings that can cause a lot of problems.
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:51 AM   #41
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got directed to this link, figure I post my issue here and see what is recommended.

I am running VTA class, using a shaft drive style car (Academy STR4 Pro II).

As the track owners are getting ready for snowbirds I believe, we ran the track in the reverse direction and I noticed then more traction rolling and the rear end being loose. So I am thinking of course don't have my weight balanced on the vehicle.

Anyway, basically when coming around the large sweeper the vehicle if I let off the throttle at all during the turn it would whip around the rear end then traction roll.

Initially I was thinking of stiffening up the front end as I have a lot of steering now for the rest of the track, and I also get chattering in the rear during turns as the car goes around turns.

As a side note, I am running swaybars too.

I can post my setup if that helps, just really need to get rid of the traction rolling
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:57 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
got directed to this link, figure I post my issue here and see what is recommended.

I am running VTA class, using a shaft drive style car (Academy STR4 Pro II).

As the track owners are getting ready for snowbirds I believe, we ran the track in the reverse direction and I noticed then more traction rolling and the rear end being loose. So I am thinking of course don't have my weight balanced on the vehicle.

Anyway, basically when coming around the large sweeper the vehicle if I let off the throttle at all during the turn it would whip around the rear end then traction roll.

Initially I was thinking of stiffening up the front end as I have a lot of steering now for the rest of the track, and I also get chattering in the rear during turns as the car goes around turns.

As a side note, I am running swaybars too.

I can post my setup if that helps, just really need to get rid of the traction rolling
Man I had the same problem with my VTA car. I kept going stiffer and ran sway bars all the way around. The car was hooked up and turned on a dime but nothing I did got rid of the traction rolling. Some guys I race with that went to Cleveland told me to lay the shocks down and soften it up. I did all of that and got rid of the sway bars and presto no more traction rolling. Went from 70wt oil all the way around to 45 and lighter springs and it is now money !
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:58 AM   #43
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Crap, I forgot to mention I added droop also !
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Old 01-10-2010, 12:14 PM   #44
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thanks for the info. i did add some droop during the day and that did help some. I'll give the softer setup a look.
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Old 01-10-2010, 01:04 PM   #45
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Get the beefiest sway bar on the market. rolling takes having one side off the ground, sway bars eliminate that.
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