57LikesThe Speed Passion Thread
04-08-2009, 07:00 AM
#16
memix:
Since we're re-creating some info for the moment, here's how the interplay with timing advance and gearing works:
When you're setting up a new power system or stepping onto a new track with anything faster than a 10.5 motor, always start with the timing advance LOW. If you're too slow, start to gear up to whatever the track can handle or whatever you can handle. Remember that low lap times are what you're looking for, and that blazing speed down the straight that everyone likes may end up giving you SLOWER lap times in the long run
Once you've got the gearing in the right range, then you can experiment with some higher timing advance for a bit more straight speed and punch out of the corners, but remember - adding timing advance is very much like adding a tooth or two to the pinion - The car will be faster, and the motor will get hotter. Watch your temps while you're doing it and experiment with how you like the feel of a few teeth down on the pinion combined with a few settings up on the timing. Generally low timing and faster gearing will give you a smoother softer feel in the infield - generally good for tight technical tracks. Higher timing and slower gearing gives you a punchier hard hitting feel (which some prefer on any track).
For 10.5, 13.5, 17.5 and 21.5 motors:
Racing setups for these motors has generally evolved into "max out the timing advance, and adjust gearing to keep motor temps in check".
Your temp gun and lap time sheet are your best friend here. With the timing maxxed out, a very good driver can recognize the "breaking point" of the motor very quickly. This is the point when you are adding a tooth, seeing laptimes go down and the motor is not overheating yet, and you add another tooth and repeat. At some point when you add one more tooth, usually two or three things happen all at once: You notice you have lost a lot of rip out of tight corners (the motor is maxxed out on torque), your laptimes have gotten slower, and the motor is at or beyond it's safe max temp. This is the breaking point, and for Nationals level drivers - they go down one tooth and call it a day.
For club level, I would recommend going down 2 or 3 teeth to give you some extra security from blowing motors, and here's why:
Traction conditions can change during the day, and added traction = more motor heat. Ambient temps change during the day, and higher ambient temps = more motor heat. Even something like a slight drivetrain bind, or a wheel bearing starting to go bad will add friction to the drivetrain and thus add motor heat. If you are just barely one tooth under the breaking point, there are many many factors that might come into play that will shoot you right over the edge in an instant, and then you've smoked a motor.
Max temps:
21.5 = 140F
17.5 = 145F
13.5 = 165F
10.5 = 175F
Anything faster than 10.5 = 185F
Since we're re-creating some info for the moment, here's how the interplay with timing advance and gearing works:
When you're setting up a new power system or stepping onto a new track with anything faster than a 10.5 motor, always start with the timing advance LOW. If you're too slow, start to gear up to whatever the track can handle or whatever you can handle. Remember that low lap times are what you're looking for, and that blazing speed down the straight that everyone likes may end up giving you SLOWER lap times in the long run
Once you've got the gearing in the right range, then you can experiment with some higher timing advance for a bit more straight speed and punch out of the corners, but remember - adding timing advance is very much like adding a tooth or two to the pinion - The car will be faster, and the motor will get hotter. Watch your temps while you're doing it and experiment with how you like the feel of a few teeth down on the pinion combined with a few settings up on the timing. Generally low timing and faster gearing will give you a smoother softer feel in the infield - generally good for tight technical tracks. Higher timing and slower gearing gives you a punchier hard hitting feel (which some prefer on any track).
For 10.5, 13.5, 17.5 and 21.5 motors:
Racing setups for these motors has generally evolved into "max out the timing advance, and adjust gearing to keep motor temps in check".
Your temp gun and lap time sheet are your best friend here. With the timing maxxed out, a very good driver can recognize the "breaking point" of the motor very quickly. This is the point when you are adding a tooth, seeing laptimes go down and the motor is not overheating yet, and you add another tooth and repeat. At some point when you add one more tooth, usually two or three things happen all at once: You notice you have lost a lot of rip out of tight corners (the motor is maxxed out on torque), your laptimes have gotten slower, and the motor is at or beyond it's safe max temp. This is the breaking point, and for Nationals level drivers - they go down one tooth and call it a day.
For club level, I would recommend going down 2 or 3 teeth to give you some extra security from blowing motors, and here's why:
Traction conditions can change during the day, and added traction = more motor heat. Ambient temps change during the day, and higher ambient temps = more motor heat. Even something like a slight drivetrain bind, or a wheel bearing starting to go bad will add friction to the drivetrain and thus add motor heat. If you are just barely one tooth under the breaking point, there are many many factors that might come into play that will shoot you right over the edge in an instant, and then you've smoked a motor.
Max temps:
21.5 = 140F
17.5 = 145F
13.5 = 165F
10.5 = 175F
Anything faster than 10.5 = 185F
04-08-2009, 07:02 AM
#17
Pablo:
The GT 2.0 has the "next gen super timing advance" operation you are talking about.
The GT 2.0 has the "next gen super timing advance" operation you are talking about.
04-08-2009, 08:18 AM
#18
Shawn - Adam
Thanks for your advise .
I will try the timings before the weekend ( hopefully its a outdoor track and the weather the past days its crap
)
The car i have is the team magic E4FS and my main problem is that the motor can is BIG and the spur gear needs to be at least 114t-64p or more because the motor touches the rear belt if i put a smaller one.
I am waiting for a 116t ( last saturday that i tried it for the first time i had a 112t spur with a 25t pinion ) and do some testing hopefully before sunday ( race day ) .
When i tried it last saturday with 0 timing in the corners the car was going very smooth and fast but in the main staight ( more than 50 meters , its basically a nitro track ) the car was slow .
Comparing with 2 other guys that we testing the same day ( one haves lrp spx bullet reverse - 4t x11 motor and the other losi sensored 3.5t ) i was faster and more smooth in the corners and U turns but in main straight i was allot slower.
Again thanks for the advise i will tell you what happen over the weekend.
Thanks for your advise .
I will try the timings before the weekend ( hopefully its a outdoor track and the weather the past days its crap
)The car i have is the team magic E4FS and my main problem is that the motor can is BIG and the spur gear needs to be at least 114t-64p or more because the motor touches the rear belt if i put a smaller one.
I am waiting for a 116t ( last saturday that i tried it for the first time i had a 112t spur with a 25t pinion ) and do some testing hopefully before sunday ( race day ) .
When i tried it last saturday with 0 timing in the corners the car was going very smooth and fast but in the main staight ( more than 50 meters , its basically a nitro track ) the car was slow .
Comparing with 2 other guys that we testing the same day ( one haves lrp spx bullet reverse - 4t x11 motor and the other losi sensored 3.5t ) i was faster and more smooth in the corners and U turns but in main straight i was allot slower.
Again thanks for the advise i will tell you what happen over the weekend.
04-08-2009, 09:13 AM
#19
It would be my opinion that if someone has a question about a Speedpassion product they are free to ask.
such as,
hey adam,
quick question, just installed the Speedpassion 2.0 ESC in the Mi3 and taking into consideration the dropping of around 5 teeth, i changed from a 22/87 to a 18/89 using a 6.5 Speedpassion motor, does this sound about right?
such as,
hey adam,
quick question, just installed the Speedpassion 2.0 ESC in the Mi3 and taking into consideration the dropping of around 5 teeth, i changed from a 22/87 to a 18/89 using a 6.5 Speedpassion motor, does this sound about right?
I read the thread everyday so I am just as disappointed as you are. Yet this one seems to have picked up right where the other one left off.
Now if they could just implement an export feature where the entire thread gets dumped into a file format I can save to my pc.
04-08-2009, 11:48 AM
#20
Adam or shawn im gonna run my gt 2.0 this weeked in my oval car . Going to run 13.5 1 cell lipo with a tq booster any tip on how to set the esc up for 1cell ? Thanks
04-08-2009, 11:51 AM
#21
Shawn - Adam
Thanks for your advise .
I will try the timings before the weekend ( hopefully its a outdoor track and the weather the past days its crap )
The car i have is the team magic E4FS and my main problem is that the motor can is BIG and the spur gear needs to be at least 114t-64p or more because the motor touches the rear belt if i put a smaller one.
I am waiting for a 116t ( last saturday that i tried it for the first time i had a 112t spur with a 25t pinion ) and do some testing hopefully before sunday ( race day ) .
When i tried it last saturday with 0 timing in the corners the car was going very smooth and fast but in the main staight ( more than 50 meters , its basically a nitro track ) the car was slow .
Comparing with 2 other guys that we testing the same day ( one haves lrp spx bullet reverse - 4t x11 motor and the other losi sensored 3.5t ) i was faster and more smooth in the corners and U turns but in main straight i was allot slower.
Again thanks for the advise i will tell you what happen over the weekend.
Thanks for your advise .
I will try the timings before the weekend ( hopefully its a outdoor track and the weather the past days its crap
)The car i have is the team magic E4FS and my main problem is that the motor can is BIG and the spur gear needs to be at least 114t-64p or more because the motor touches the rear belt if i put a smaller one.
I am waiting for a 116t ( last saturday that i tried it for the first time i had a 112t spur with a 25t pinion ) and do some testing hopefully before sunday ( race day ) .
When i tried it last saturday with 0 timing in the corners the car was going very smooth and fast but in the main staight ( more than 50 meters , its basically a nitro track ) the car was slow .
Comparing with 2 other guys that we testing the same day ( one haves lrp spx bullet reverse - 4t x11 motor and the other losi sensored 3.5t ) i was faster and more smooth in the corners and U turns but in main straight i was allot slower.
Again thanks for the advise i will tell you what happen over the weekend.
04-09-2009, 05:13 PM
#25
when using a rcvr battery do i need to do anything or watch out for anything special on any of the SP esc. I have the LPF in now but thinking about the 2.0 in case i need a little extra something
Last edited by skypilot; 04-09-2009 at 05:43 PM.
04-09-2009, 10:06 PM
#27
PM me with your e-mail and I will send it to you. I got the same response when I went to the "apparel"
section of the speedpassion site.I received two LPF 2.0's and a BL analyzer yesterday. After this weekend I will have some time to play with it all and see if I have any information worth sharing. I will be able to compare the LRP Sphere, Tekin RS, LPF 1.1, LPF 2.0 and GT 1.1 along with various SP 17.5, 13.5, 10.5, hacker 17.5, and a Novak 13.5 motor. Perhaps combined with some of the information from John Stranahan's work with the sentry and a Fantom Facts Dyno we'll see some patterns useful for racing emerge . . .
04-10-2009, 01:33 AM
#28
Tech Adept
Hello guys, iīm new with a SP motors, generally i race with Nosram-lrp motors, now i have 2 SP motors for race in Stock, (10.5) category.
This motor, donīt have adjustable timing, and also my ESC, Matrix ISTC.
You can give me any recommendations, for gear ratios and programs, for this combination.
I test, with good results, at small track with 5.2-5.4 and program 7 in ESC, but i feel lack of power, compare with Nosram motors.
Here we run with Lipos (7.4v), in Stock categorys.
Thanks in advance, Luis C.
This motor, donīt have adjustable timing, and also my ESC, Matrix ISTC.
You can give me any recommendations, for gear ratios and programs, for this combination.
I test, with good results, at small track with 5.2-5.4 and program 7 in ESC, but i feel lack of power, compare with Nosram motors.
Here we run with Lipos (7.4v), in Stock categorys.
Thanks in advance, Luis C.
04-10-2009, 12:05 PM
#29
WGT/ 4cell but the loop isn't picking up transponders, the loop is actually in a bridge 1 foot above the track, some think its a voltage issue, but the 1/12 cars had no problem last year.
thinking about running the rcvr pack straight to the transponder with its own on/off switch
