"Ask" Jilles Groskamp Tamiya 416 & 417, Team Orion Motors
10-10-2011, 02:11 PM
#1728
Hi Jilles,
Thanks again for sharing your time & knowledge to us here on the forum.
What is the difference if toe degree is created by/at hubs vs at/by the inboard arm mounting?
On touring cars Tamiya sets this via the different inboard suspension arm pin holders. On the M-chassis and buggies it is done using different degree hubs.
On the M05 now we have the option of setting it inboard with the new lower alloy plate on the S-type M05 chassis kit. So the whole lower arm itself is toe angled rather than just the hub.
What's the difference/is one method better for certain track type?
Thank you.
Thanks again for sharing your time & knowledge to us here on the forum.
What is the difference if toe degree is created by/at hubs vs at/by the inboard arm mounting?
On touring cars Tamiya sets this via the different inboard suspension arm pin holders. On the M-chassis and buggies it is done using different degree hubs.
On the M05 now we have the option of setting it inboard with the new lower alloy plate on the S-type M05 chassis kit. So the whole lower arm itself is toe angled rather than just the hub.
What's the difference/is one method better for certain track type?
Thank you.
10-11-2011, 04:41 AM
#1729
With the 417 I have find a good set-up by using 0mm FF and 0.5mm FR to make 0.5mm antidive. With 0.5FF and 1.0mm FR the car gets more lazy and has not enough steering. Some track both FF and FR without spacers is worth a try, same as WC 2010 setup. Wheelbase change is changing the weight balance of the car. Most set-up now we use 3.5mm in the rear and 0.5mm in the front which brings the weight of the car more forward. This give better balance and more steering.
With this set up (0mm FF and 0,5mm FR) where do you measure the droop ? Front or rear of the arm ?
10-15-2011, 05:30 PM
#1731
Hi Jilles,
Running a TRF417, spool front, rear gear diff, 88T spur, 46T pinion, Team Powers Plutonium 17.5 bl motor, Tekin RS in blinky mode(no ramp), SMC 5200 50C battery, and Hot Bodies Subaru Type A body.
I seem to be at speed with the guys but is there a way to get a bit more speed out of the car with this set up?
Thanks~!
Running a TRF417, spool front, rear gear diff, 88T spur, 46T pinion, Team Powers Plutonium 17.5 bl motor, Tekin RS in blinky mode(no ramp), SMC 5200 50C battery, and Hot Bodies Subaru Type A body.
I seem to be at speed with the guys but is there a way to get a bit more speed out of the car with this set up?
Thanks~!
10-22-2011, 09:42 PM
#1732
what changes could be made to get less steering into the car.
I run a 416x on rubber and asphalt with 21.5T brushless that varies from low to med traction depending if the track is sprayed or not. I have a ton of steering that appears to be leading to my tire wear problem all round. I know this is the opposite to what we seem to be striving to achieve, but I get a lot of tire wear and I wish to 'free' the whole car up to make it a little easier on the tires
I'm basically running Jilles outdoor rubber set-up, so was looking for those changes that people make as traction comes up throughout a race meet.
Appreciate any advice.
I run a 416x on rubber and asphalt with 21.5T brushless that varies from low to med traction depending if the track is sprayed or not. I have a ton of steering that appears to be leading to my tire wear problem all round. I know this is the opposite to what we seem to be striving to achieve, but I get a lot of tire wear and I wish to 'free' the whole car up to make it a little easier on the tires
I'm basically running Jilles outdoor rubber set-up, so was looking for those changes that people make as traction comes up throughout a race meet.
Appreciate any advice.
10-23-2011, 12:29 AM
#1733
Could you post the setup here?
So we can look at it?
Not everybody has Jilles setup sheets on the PC.
One thing you can do is narrow the rear track wide witht he suspensionblocks(i run rear front 1XB and rear rear 1C)
It still gives you enough toe in but it also has a smaller trackwide.
Or just run 4MM hexes(rear) so the trackwide is redueced with 2MM.
regards Roy
So we can look at it?
Not everybody has Jilles setup sheets on the PC.
One thing you can do is narrow the rear track wide witht he suspensionblocks(i run rear front 1XB and rear rear 1C)
It still gives you enough toe in but it also has a smaller trackwide.
Or just run 4MM hexes(rear) so the trackwide is redueced with 2MM.
regards Roy
what changes could be made to get less steering into the car.
I run a 416x on rubber and asphalt with 21.5T brushless that varies from low to med traction depending if the track is sprayed or not. I have a ton of steering that appears to be leading to my tire wear problem all round. I know this is the opposite to what we seem to be striving to achieve, but I get a lot of tire wear and I wish to 'free' the whole car up to make it a little easier on the tires
I'm basically running Jilles outdoor rubber set-up, so was looking for those changes that people make as traction comes up throughout a race meet.
Appreciate any advice.
I run a 416x on rubber and asphalt with 21.5T brushless that varies from low to med traction depending if the track is sprayed or not. I have a ton of steering that appears to be leading to my tire wear problem all round. I know this is the opposite to what we seem to be striving to achieve, but I get a lot of tire wear and I wish to 'free' the whole car up to make it a little easier on the tires
I'm basically running Jilles outdoor rubber set-up, so was looking for those changes that people make as traction comes up throughout a race meet.
Appreciate any advice.
Last edited by Pro10noob; 10-23-2011 at 04:12 AM.
10-23-2011, 04:03 AM
#1734
I can't locate the copy I had of Jilles set-up, but craigm has a set-up attached that is pretty close to that I run, the only changes are as follows;
At the rear I'm running 1A rear front 1E rear rear with 0.5 Shims under each block.
I don't run the shim's in the front.
I run 40Wt oil all round, with HPI Silver on the front and HPI Blue on the reay
appreciate your thoughts.
At the rear I'm running 1A rear front 1E rear rear with 0.5 Shims under each block.
I don't run the shim's in the front.
I run 40Wt oil all round, with HPI Silver on the front and HPI Blue on the reay
appreciate your thoughts.
10-23-2011, 04:33 AM
#1735
I do run the front rear shim of 0.5MM and nothing at the rear suspension mount.
Front rear is 1XB and rear rear is 1C.
Front i run 1C front and rear(same as you)
No wheel shims at the hexes.
Camberlinks 3mm at the wheel and 5mm at the bulkhead(rearside)
Camberlink at the front on the bulkhead 3mm
Shock position front top 3th hole and lower at the outer position.
Rear position top 2th hole and lower also the outer hole.
Stabi front: hard and rear soft
Springs i run are Tamiya and this depends if it is a smooth or bumpy track.
Smooth blue allround and if bumpy yellow front and red rear.
Camber front 1.5 and rear 3mm
Front toe out 1 degree and toe in at rear 3 degrees.
This is with 13.5 motor with timing and boost.
Body i run is a Dodge stratos.
Tires i run are Sorex 32R or 36R or the CS27 and the Corally SST?
Track we run on is great in the morning(med to high grip) but as the day goes on(midday round 2ish) we get a bit of dust problems from the dirtbike track behind us(med grip)
Great and easy car to drive.
I drove this car with a LRP X12 13.5 motor against some of our local mod guys(they run 6.5 motors) and at both races a ended up second
Almost forgot i run the 416X with Tamiya Lipo chassis.
regards Roy
Front rear is 1XB and rear rear is 1C.
Front i run 1C front and rear(same as you)
No wheel shims at the hexes.
Camberlinks 3mm at the wheel and 5mm at the bulkhead(rearside)
Camberlink at the front on the bulkhead 3mm
Shock position front top 3th hole and lower at the outer position.
Rear position top 2th hole and lower also the outer hole.
Stabi front: hard and rear soft
Springs i run are Tamiya and this depends if it is a smooth or bumpy track.
Smooth blue allround and if bumpy yellow front and red rear.
Camber front 1.5 and rear 3mm
Front toe out 1 degree and toe in at rear 3 degrees.
This is with 13.5 motor with timing and boost.
Body i run is a Dodge stratos.
Tires i run are Sorex 32R or 36R or the CS27 and the Corally SST?
Track we run on is great in the morning(med to high grip) but as the day goes on(midday round 2ish) we get a bit of dust problems from the dirtbike track behind us(med grip)
Great and easy car to drive.
I drove this car with a LRP X12 13.5 motor against some of our local mod guys(they run 6.5 motors) and at both races a ended up second
Almost forgot i run the 416X with Tamiya Lipo chassis.
regards Roy
Last edited by Pro10noob; 10-23-2011 at 04:55 AM.
10-23-2011, 07:26 AM
#1736
When you change to split blocks rear front, you get rid of the 3mm shim
under the standard block but what do you run under the split blocks to equalise???
under the standard block but what do you run under the split blocks to equalise???
10-27-2011, 03:32 AM
#1739
10-29-2011, 01:11 PM
#1740
Help needed from anyone.
My 416x has a issue on a tight carpet track. The dogbone pins are coming out of the wheel axle and sometimes bend. The dogbones are stock and the outdrives are stock. Is there a stronger or better dogbone? I am using loc tight on the grub screw. They are only doing this in the front.
(Just for more info. the pin that is coming out of the dogbone is just behind the wheel).
Also what do you recommend for spool outdrives?
Thanks for the help
My 416x has a issue on a tight carpet track. The dogbone pins are coming out of the wheel axle and sometimes bend. The dogbones are stock and the outdrives are stock. Is there a stronger or better dogbone? I am using loc tight on the grub screw. They are only doing this in the front.
(Just for more info. the pin that is coming out of the dogbone is just behind the wheel).
Also what do you recommend for spool outdrives?
Thanks for the help