"Ask" Jilles Groskamp Tamiya 416 & 417, Team Orion Motors
11-28-2011, 01:54 PM
#1772
We used pretty much standard geardiff, only thing was new o-ring to avoid leaking, I guess spec-r will change this already.
1mm under motormount is to get little more chassis roll and then to avoid touching the motor from the ground. With the new more narrow chassis you can run little more chassis roll to get more traction especially on a low traction surface/tyres like WC.
Hi.
When you say 1mm under the motor mount, where do you exactly put the spacers? Just under the motor mount or also under the rear bulkheads?
Thanks.
1mm under motormount is to get little more chassis roll and then to avoid touching the motor from the ground. With the new more narrow chassis you can run little more chassis roll to get more traction especially on a low traction surface/tyres like WC.
Hi.
When you say 1mm under the motor mount, where do you exactly put the spacers? Just under the motor mount or also under the rear bulkheads?
Thanks.
12-07-2011, 01:28 AM
#1774
We used pretty much standard geardiff, only thing was new o-ring to avoid leaking, I guess spec-r will change this already.
1mm under motormount is to get little more chassis roll and then to avoid touching the motor from the ground. With the new more narrow chassis you can run little more chassis roll to get more traction especially on a low traction surface/tyres like WC.
Hi.
When you say 1mm under the motor mount, where do you exactly put the spacers? Just under the motor mount or also under the rear bulkheads?
Thanks.
1mm under motormount is to get little more chassis roll and then to avoid touching the motor from the ground. With the new more narrow chassis you can run little more chassis roll to get more traction especially on a low traction surface/tyres like WC.
Hi.
When you say 1mm under the motor mount, where do you exactly put the spacers? Just under the motor mount or also under the rear bulkheads?
Thanks.
12-08-2011, 07:14 PM
#1775
Vortex VST Pro Senosr
Hello,
I seem to have a bad sensor board in my Vortex 17.5. Where can I buy a new one? I cannot add it to my cart on the Orion Website.
I couldn't get a reply from Orion Europe and the only contact for USA is Horizon Hobby. I didn't buy this motor from Horizon.
Any help is appreciated, i hate to have an expensive paper weight
I seem to have a bad sensor board in my Vortex 17.5. Where can I buy a new one? I cannot add it to my cart on the Orion Website.
I couldn't get a reply from Orion Europe and the only contact for USA is Horizon Hobby. I didn't buy this motor from Horizon.
Any help is appreciated, i hate to have an expensive paper weight
12-08-2011, 09:45 PM
#1776
dear jilles
I'm just wondering if you could share a base setup for high Grip asphalt track like rc addict in bangkok, the site of the next 2012 TITC ?
I'm just wondering if you could share a base setup for high Grip asphalt track like rc addict in bangkok, the site of the next 2012 TITC ?
12-08-2011, 10:43 PM
#1777
Hello,
I seem to have a bad sensor board in my Vortex 17.5. Where can I buy a new one? I cannot add it to my cart on the Orion Website.
I couldn't get a reply from Orion Europe and the only contact for USA is Horizon Hobby. I didn't buy this motor from Horizon.
Any help is appreciated, i hate to have an expensive paper weight
I seem to have a bad sensor board in my Vortex 17.5. Where can I buy a new one? I cannot add it to my cart on the Orion Website.
I couldn't get a reply from Orion Europe and the only contact for USA is Horizon Hobby. I didn't buy this motor from Horizon.
Any help is appreciated, i hate to have an expensive paper weight
12-13-2011, 10:18 AM
#1778
difference between 416we and 416x chassies
Ok guy, I got 2 416x chassies for pretty well nothing($$) and in prefect shape, now I want to change my WE chassie and put on the x chassie insetead. How much of a difference is it and modifications have to be done to convert it over? Dones anyone have a template for both chassies and the mods that have to be done to make it compatable. Thanks
Paul
Paul
12-22-2011, 08:47 PM
#1779
First of all sorry for not being around on the thread so long. Due the flood situation around Bangkok it was kinda hectic and not much racing the last two months. Since a week I'm back and practising hard at RC Addict for the upcoming TITC race and with some nice test results already. Will still try to answer most questions of the last two months.
Will post a basic set-up soon, I will also post it on facebook as this is much easier for me then posting it at RCTECH.
I will post pics on Facebook of my FF03 today!!
Sure the 417X has more flex, but it has been proven at most tracks it was needed for better laptimes. For high bite track I advice to use single piece suspension blocks and the "old" topdeck ( not too much flex ).
She is very fast and will be faster and faster so watch out guys!!
Split blocks will make the chassis more flex, it was good at most tarmac races during the summer season but high bite I think single piece works better.
I honestly never think about this but I'm sure the designer has thought about this so I just run standard shock setting.
Umino is very professional mechanic but I believe ones every race is enough for me, at the big races I rebuild every day , maybe three or four runs.
Actually I'm not sure what is the difference in handling but one thing is that with inboard toe-in you change also the wheelbase with outboard a lot less change of wheelbase.
Front of the arm, it's not much difference.
At a big event I always check the screws, the tyres ( if not unglued ), then I check drop setting and camber setting after every race and ofcourse ride height.
I think set-up is not a real problem, maybe try Protoform body like Speed 6 which has good cornerspeed, other things important are tyres and tyre treatment.
You can try applying less additive on the front tyres and less time. Also less dual rate on the radio can help.
Thanks, nice you like the video! I believe the towel and pit board are available in Japan but it's hard to get it into other countries.
Try the official TRF website?
I agree the alu drive shaft in front are very weak if you crash hard, I suggest always use the double joint drive shaft from steel.
Coming soon! Testing now!
Honestly I haven't run the 417X on carpet yet, I believe the Snowbirds set-up from last year is pretty good for starting set-up. The ball studs are not for sale, this was a test from Tamiya, they are from Titanium, I do think they should release them, they are really awesome!
Thanks Ed! My home has been affected by the flood and I couldn't return to my home for two month. The kitchen is pretty much broken and also some wooden doors. It's getting back to normal now but it will take some time, hopefully RC City is open in the beginning of new year as they were really hurt by the flood with more then 1m water!
Here some info about my mini from TITC.
Shock 3 hole 300w oil, blue spring rear, yellow front, front geardiff with cleaning gum, ride height 3mm measure in the middle of chassis, Subaru body is probably the best mini body.
Yes, I always run the motormunt split and also some cuts in the topdeck, little flex makes the car easier to drive and faster.
I have not much experience with foam tyre and electric but I think harder springs will work good and little thicker oil. Make the car as wide as possible so you can push the car harder through the corners.
With the ABEC bearings I never use oil, the standard factory oil is very good and last long time.
What class/motor you are using?
I'm testing now so soon I will post some basic set-up for this track.
Honestly I'm not sure about what to get to convert all to 416X. I believe the WE had also different bulkhead and topdeck but not sure. Maybe some other racers have the 416X so you can compare the WE with the 416X to see what you need.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everyone and thank you for all the support!!!
Hi Jilles,
I've been reading your tips for awhile now, thanks for the knowledge! Just wondering how you think the 2012 417 will handle on high bite asphalt/carpet tracks compared to the existing 417. I know the motor mount will be split and more flex in the chassis, is this good or bad for high traction? Seems like the 2012 version might be better at some tracks while the current version could be better at others..just curious your thoughts. Thanks.
I've been reading your tips for awhile now, thanks for the knowledge! Just wondering how you think the 2012 417 will handle on high bite asphalt/carpet tracks compared to the existing 417. I know the motor mount will be split and more flex in the chassis, is this good or bad for high traction? Seems like the 2012 version might be better at some tracks while the current version could be better at others..just curious your thoughts. Thanks.
Hi Jilles,
I am wondering if you know where the piston sit in the damper body at ride height on your 417. I (like alot of other people) use them on other touring cars and I know that the piston position is somewhat important so I would like to assemble them for my car as they were designed to be run on the Tamiyas.
Thanks
Josh
I am wondering if you know where the piston sit in the damper body at ride height on your 417. I (like alot of other people) use them on other touring cars and I know that the piston position is somewhat important so I would like to assemble them for my car as they were designed to be run on the Tamiyas.
Thanks
Josh
Hi Jilles,
Thanks again for sharing your time & knowledge to us here on the forum.
What is the difference if toe degree is created by/at hubs vs at/by the inboard arm mounting?
On touring cars Tamiya sets this via the different inboard suspension arm pin holders. On the M-chassis and buggies it is done using different degree hubs.
On the M05 now we have the option of setting it inboard with the new lower alloy plate on the S-type M05 chassis kit. So the whole lower arm itself is toe angled rather than just the hub.
What's the difference/is one method better for certain track type?
Thank you.
Thanks again for sharing your time & knowledge to us here on the forum.
What is the difference if toe degree is created by/at hubs vs at/by the inboard arm mounting?
On touring cars Tamiya sets this via the different inboard suspension arm pin holders. On the M-chassis and buggies it is done using different degree hubs.
On the M05 now we have the option of setting it inboard with the new lower alloy plate on the S-type M05 chassis kit. So the whole lower arm itself is toe angled rather than just the hub.
What's the difference/is one method better for certain track type?
Thank you.
Hi Jilles,
Running a TRF417, spool front, rear gear diff, 88T spur, 46T pinion, Team Powers Plutonium 17.5 bl motor, Tekin RS in blinky mode(no ramp), SMC 5200 50C battery, and Hot Bodies Subaru Type A body.
I seem to be at speed with the guys but is there a way to get a bit more speed out of the car with this set up?
Thanks~!
Running a TRF417, spool front, rear gear diff, 88T spur, 46T pinion, Team Powers Plutonium 17.5 bl motor, Tekin RS in blinky mode(no ramp), SMC 5200 50C battery, and Hot Bodies Subaru Type A body.
I seem to be at speed with the guys but is there a way to get a bit more speed out of the car with this set up?
Thanks~!
what changes could be made to get less steering into the car.
I run a 416x on rubber and asphalt with 21.5T brushless that varies from low to med traction depending if the track is sprayed or not. I have a ton of steering that appears to be leading to my tire wear problem all round. I know this is the opposite to what we seem to be striving to achieve, but I get a lot of tire wear and I wish to 'free' the whole car up to make it a little easier on the tires
I'm basically running Jilles outdoor rubber set-up, so was looking for those changes that people make as traction comes up throughout a race meet.
Appreciate any advice.
I run a 416x on rubber and asphalt with 21.5T brushless that varies from low to med traction depending if the track is sprayed or not. I have a ton of steering that appears to be leading to my tire wear problem all round. I know this is the opposite to what we seem to be striving to achieve, but I get a lot of tire wear and I wish to 'free' the whole car up to make it a little easier on the tires
I'm basically running Jilles outdoor rubber set-up, so was looking for those changes that people make as traction comes up throughout a race meet.
Appreciate any advice.
Thank you Jilles for releasing your new 3 part video series on the 417. It is very helpful.
I have a question? Is Tamiya planning on releasing the pit towel and pit board you are using in the videos?
If so, where can I find them.
Best regards,
Greg Gherasim
Squamish, B.C. Canada
I have a question? Is Tamiya planning on releasing the pit towel and pit board you are using in the videos?
If so, where can I find them.
Best regards,
Greg Gherasim
Squamish, B.C. Canada
Try the official TRF website?
I wont speak for Jilles, but if you have a tendency to hit stuff on the track then the best option would be to run Steel up front. I run steel in the front and aluminum in the rear. Not to many drivers I know could get a way with running the aluminum CVDs in the front they are simply too soft.
Coming soon! Testing now!
Hi Jilles
Please share some information for carpet racing. The 417 is easy to drive but i cant get rid over the last bit of understeer, which costs time. Compared to other cars there is a little bit of agression on the front missing. I know this was also an issue on last ETS for your team, but I guess there are SOME ideas.
My setup is quite your basic setup, I even went the front arms back a little to gain weight on the front axle but no final success.
Secondly please post the partnumber for the ball studs you use with the dampers(seen in the videos), I think they have a hex inside so you dont have to pop the shocks of and create all the play there right?
Thanks a lot, your recent posts have always been very helpfull and kept the trf fast.
Please share some information for carpet racing. The 417 is easy to drive but i cant get rid over the last bit of understeer, which costs time. Compared to other cars there is a little bit of agression on the front missing. I know this was also an issue on last ETS for your team, but I guess there are SOME ideas.
My setup is quite your basic setup, I even went the front arms back a little to gain weight on the front axle but no final success.
Secondly please post the partnumber for the ball studs you use with the dampers(seen in the videos), I think they have a hex inside so you dont have to pop the shocks of and create all the play there right?
Thanks a lot, your recent posts have always been very helpfull and kept the trf fast.
On another topic entirely...
Jilles, having seen the large level of flooding in the Bangkok recently, hope you haven't been badly affected. The pictures of RC City are quite saddening having been there earlier this year, and I know your living in Bangkok now, not so far from there, so hope you haven't been badly affected. Sad to see to such problems regardless for the Thai people.
Ed
Jilles, having seen the large level of flooding in the Bangkok recently, hope you haven't been badly affected. The pictures of RC City are quite saddening having been there earlier this year, and I know your living in Bangkok now, not so far from there, so hope you haven't been badly affected. Sad to see to such problems regardless for the Thai people.
Ed
Hello Jilles,
I am after some advice regarding the setup changes that were made to your mini at this years TITC race.
Did you have to make large changes to the oils used in the shocks and springs? What about ride height.
I did troll through this thread and read different things you do for the shocks on your mini.
Do you use the TRF mini shocks and if so are you using internal spacers to limit droop.
I am in the process of building/setting up a car for TITC next year and was just after some direction for my mini. I will be running a MWB car and use either a Swift or Subaru body.
BTW,
I hope things are getting better in Bangkok, from the news the place is still inundated with water.
Thank you,
Regards,
Calvin.
I am after some advice regarding the setup changes that were made to your mini at this years TITC race.
Did you have to make large changes to the oils used in the shocks and springs? What about ride height.
I did troll through this thread and read different things you do for the shocks on your mini.
Do you use the TRF mini shocks and if so are you using internal spacers to limit droop.
I am in the process of building/setting up a car for TITC next year and was just after some direction for my mini. I will be running a MWB car and use either a Swift or Subaru body.
BTW,
I hope things are getting better in Bangkok, from the news the place is still inundated with water.
Thank you,
Regards,
Calvin.
Shock 3 hole 300w oil, blue spring rear, yellow front, front geardiff with cleaning gum, ride height 3mm measure in the middle of chassis, Subaru body is probably the best mini body.
jill
thank you very much for this treat
i will like to know a set up for the tamiya 417 wearing foam nitro tires or some advice for faom tires in asphalt i know the car works better with rubber tires but in my country they are so expensive so we use foam tires because they are cheap i will apreciated any advice
thank you very much for this treat
i will like to know a set up for the tamiya 417 wearing foam nitro tires or some advice for faom tires in asphalt i know the car works better with rubber tires but in my country they are so expensive so we use foam tires because they are cheap i will apreciated any advice
What class/motor you are using?
Ok guy, I got 2 416x chassies for pretty well nothing($$) and in prefect shape, now I want to change my WE chassie and put on the x chassie insetead. How much of a difference is it and modifications have to be done to convert it over? Dones anyone have a template for both chassies and the mods that have to be done to make it compatable. Thanks
Paul
Paul
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everyone and thank you for all the support!!!
12-22-2011, 10:21 PM
#1780
Sure the 417X has more flex, but it has been proven at most tracks it was needed for better laptimes. For high bite track I advice to use single piece suspension blocks and the "old" topdeck ( not too much flex ).
Split blocks will make the chassis more flex, it was good at most tarmac races during the summer season but high bite I think single piece works better.
Honestly I haven't run the 417X on carpet yet, I believe the Snowbirds set-up from last year is pretty good for starting set-up. The ball studs are not for sale, this was a test from Tamiya, they are from Titanium, I do think they should release them, they are really awesome!
Split blocks will make the chassis more flex, it was good at most tarmac races during the summer season but high bite I think single piece works better.
Honestly I haven't run the 417X on carpet yet, I believe the Snowbirds set-up from last year is pretty good for starting set-up. The ball studs are not for sale, this was a test from Tamiya, they are from Titanium, I do think they should release them, they are really awesome!
Totally agree with what your saying about high bite and the split blocks. Recently I've been running pretty high traction tracks, and seem to find the single piece better, and make the car more consistent.
Shame you couldn't make it out to the ATS, really fun event, although carpet was a real struggle, hopefully Marc had some good running there on the monday after. Did manage to get the car working ok by the end of the weekend, basically raising the front roll-centre and widening the front to kill the excess of steering. Also going (like your 'birds) setup, with long links and softer oil.... all a bit alien to me after the last time I ran on rug!
Still, looking forward to TITC, very interested to see what setup you come up with before the event
Cheers
Ed
12-23-2011, 05:50 AM
#1781
Hello Jilles,
Thank you for the info reagrding your MO5 from TITC this year. I have another question. Since the Ride Inch up Rims are offset by 2mm did you change the spacers on the front and rear hubs or did you use 4mm hexes instead.
On another note, I have been testing my FWD car, with the new TITC control tyre for next year and I am finding the car letting go at the rear very easily. I have tried softening the rear and running the front wider. What do you suggest. I struggled tonight on a high grip track and the car was tailly all the time. The rear wanted to swap with the front. I removed the front and rear swaybars, laid the rear shocks over, altered the roll centres and adjusted droop. The only thing I haven't tried yet is making the front shocks stiffer by using heavier oil.
Any advice appreciated.
Regards,
Calvin.
Thank you for the info reagrding your MO5 from TITC this year. I have another question. Since the Ride Inch up Rims are offset by 2mm did you change the spacers on the front and rear hubs or did you use 4mm hexes instead.
On another note, I have been testing my FWD car, with the new TITC control tyre for next year and I am finding the car letting go at the rear very easily. I have tried softening the rear and running the front wider. What do you suggest. I struggled tonight on a high grip track and the car was tailly all the time. The rear wanted to swap with the front. I removed the front and rear swaybars, laid the rear shocks over, altered the roll centres and adjusted droop. The only thing I haven't tried yet is making the front shocks stiffer by using heavier oil.
Any advice appreciated.
Regards,
Calvin.
12-23-2011, 03:14 PM
#1782
Tech Regular
First of all sorry for not being around on the thread so long. Due the flood situation around Bangkok it was kinda hectic and not much racing the last two months. Since a week I'm back and practising hard at RC Addict for the upcoming TITC race and with some nice test results already. Will still try to answer most questions of the last two months.
Sorry to hear that the flooding has affected your life and home.
I hope your wife and son are OK and healthy aswell.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year and get back in shape.
Good luck on the upcoming TITC.
Ed en Robin
12-23-2011, 08:56 PM
#1783
Tech Apprentice
Master Jilles
Nice to see you here again!
If it is ok for you please try to post the new 417X tips for us who try to improve their RC skills. And please also if us advise on FF. Thanks!
Nice to see you here again!
If it is ok for you please try to post the new 417X tips for us who try to improve their RC skills. And please also if us advise on FF. Thanks!
12-24-2011, 07:34 AM
#1784
Tech Apprentice
Can someone post a link to the 417 videos that Jilles made.. Thank you
12-24-2011, 09:23 AM
#1785
