Tekin RS ESC sensored
05-30-2009, 01:37 PM
#4021
Tech Master
We hath today a 1 our race.
me and my driving partner became second.
We were 4 laps in front till i got some car problem.
In the last 5 mints of the race we lost our 4 laps and were 6 seconds behind. because of some tire problems of my team member we lost 2 laps by an extra change of driver.
We both drove a TOP Scythe full option and a Tekin RS Pro with a LRP motor.
The speedo was great. motor was after an our driving on both cars still cool.
We drove on 5 cell 4600 EnerG. We drove 9 mints each and i hath no problems with power loss.
Next time is in 3 months and than we try it again and we hope to win.
Here 2 films of our track.
Promo film
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WLPxtZvVBQ
and some laps of a moth driver. film from the driver stand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9LLP...eature=related
club race is next sunday. the car feels great and the speedo is with the current settings faster than ever.
So i hope that i get finally an A final again.
Speeds are one of the fastest but the qualifications didn't go well last to races. won both B finals but i don't belong there.
me and my driving partner became second.
We were 4 laps in front till i got some car problem.
In the last 5 mints of the race we lost our 4 laps and were 6 seconds behind. because of some tire problems of my team member we lost 2 laps by an extra change of driver.
We both drove a TOP Scythe full option and a Tekin RS Pro with a LRP motor.
The speedo was great. motor was after an our driving on both cars still cool.
We drove on 5 cell 4600 EnerG. We drove 9 mints each and i hath no problems with power loss.
Next time is in 3 months and than we try it again and we hope to win.
Here 2 films of our track.
Promo film
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WLPxtZvVBQ
and some laps of a moth driver. film from the driver stand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9LLP...eature=related
club race is next sunday. the car feels great and the speedo is with the current settings faster than ever.
So i hope that i get finally an A final again.
Speeds are one of the fastest but the qualifications didn't go well last to races. won both B finals but i don't belong there.
05-30-2009, 04:56 PM
#4022
Tech Adept
A one hour electric race.....sweeet.
05-30-2009, 05:09 PM
#4023
(1) I'm trying to describe what the user experiences rather than the physics of how it is implemented. The "Dual Mode - Sensorless State" has a fixed timing over the whole RPM range, which is what a Brushed motor experiences. The note under this section gives a hint: "Note 1: Useful for those that do not have an adjustable endbell." So its doing the same function as an adjustable endbell (which are terms from brushed motor speak).
In any case, do you have some alterative words that I can ponder over
In any case, do you have some alterative words that I can ponder over
No that's exactly what I mean but it should be stated in the description as well as in the algorithm. That way when people are scanning the document by looking at description they get the right information before having to look into the algorithm itself. Sensor data failure can be cause by the 2 you mention as well as a failure of the sensor itself.
Last edited by InspGadgt; 05-30-2009 at 09:15 PM.
05-30-2009, 08:37 PM
#4024
[QUOTE=cosmo1974;5875530
(2a) In the DualMode, SensorlessState, motor timing is FIXED (just like a brushed motor), and set at the user TimingAdvanceSetting.
The user TimingAdvanceSetting varies from 0 to 100% (of 30 degrees).
TotalTiming = user TimingAdvanceSetting (motor timing has no effect).
(2b) In the SensoredMode, motor timing is varied by the ESC firmware algorithm, with the maximum firmware advance set by the user TimingBoostSetting.
TotalTiming = MotorEndbellTiming + TimingBoostSetting.
The user TimingBoostSetting varies from 0 to 30 degrees.
The TotalTiming value should be from 0 to 40 degrees (for safe operation).
The EarlyRead value is an internal mechanism and does not factor into the user's perspective of the TotalTiming value range above (0-40), or that discussed in any of the Tekin posts on this thread.
Can Mr Tekin please confirm or otherwise
[/QUOTE]
Both are correct in general.
Dual mode can take as little as 1" of car movement to roll into sensorless drive depending on gearing and how many rpm's are turned in that. You can hear teh shift if you go very slowly. It's faint and needs to be quiet to do so.
You are also correct that motor timing is negated in this mode, completely. While we do use the sensors to start it's so fast that motor timing isn't used.
We do need to go through and explain what the current software can do and can't do. The software I'm testing now has another feature that will add to parameters. Evolution at it's finest...
(2a) In the DualMode, SensorlessState, motor timing is FIXED (just like a brushed motor), and set at the user TimingAdvanceSetting.
The user TimingAdvanceSetting varies from 0 to 100% (of 30 degrees).
TotalTiming = user TimingAdvanceSetting (motor timing has no effect).
(2b) In the SensoredMode, motor timing is varied by the ESC firmware algorithm, with the maximum firmware advance set by the user TimingBoostSetting.
TotalTiming = MotorEndbellTiming + TimingBoostSetting.
The user TimingBoostSetting varies from 0 to 30 degrees.
The TotalTiming value should be from 0 to 40 degrees (for safe operation).
The EarlyRead value is an internal mechanism and does not factor into the user's perspective of the TotalTiming value range above (0-40), or that discussed in any of the Tekin posts on this thread.
Can Mr Tekin please confirm or otherwise
[/QUOTE]Both are correct in general.
Dual mode can take as little as 1" of car movement to roll into sensorless drive depending on gearing and how many rpm's are turned in that. You can hear teh shift if you go very slowly. It's faint and needs to be quiet to do so.
You are also correct that motor timing is negated in this mode, completely. While we do use the sensors to start it's so fast that motor timing isn't used.
We do need to go through and explain what the current software can do and can't do. The software I'm testing now has another feature that will add to parameters. Evolution at it's finest...
05-30-2009, 11:53 PM
#4025
Tech Adept
In large traks in mode dual mode, I'm at a disadvantage in terms of top speed
wich motors modified if I compare with other ESC.
In sensored mode the thing is more equal with other ESC
Motors used LRP X12 4.5 and SP 4.5 lipos 2s 30C intellec, foams wheels
in acceleration OK
wich motors modified if I compare with other ESC.
In sensored mode the thing is more equal with other ESC
Motors used LRP X12 4.5 and SP 4.5 lipos 2s 30C intellec, foams wheels
in acceleration OK
05-31-2009, 12:21 AM
#4026
Dual mode is a nice feature in theory but for me it doesn't work yet either. As you stated the starts are good but then it fails top speed once it goes in sensorless mode. (2s lipo and 4.5t novak) I still have to test this feature to see how i can take advantage of it with rollout and timing. (pro10)
To go easy on yourself ( less stress to find top speed) go sensord all the way. Great starts and great acceleration all the way. Be sure to put a fan blowing at the posts and change the capacitor to a bigger one otherwise it will explode like a mushroom ( or solder in 2 small ones from tekin)
To go easy on yourself ( less stress to find top speed) go sensord all the way. Great starts and great acceleration all the way. Be sure to put a fan blowing at the posts and change the capacitor to a bigger one otherwise it will explode like a mushroom ( or solder in 2 small ones from tekin)
05-31-2009, 06:59 AM
#4027
I don't like to use dual mode much with onroad classes. It just seems to lack a little bit of snap and does'nt have the top end compared to sensored only.
I do like dual mode with mod in dirt. The throttle just feels better for me and I don't need that extra snap in dirt. With the spec motors I still run sensored only but dual mode is nice in mod.
It's just another thing to try for the class and track that you are running. There's no one single set-up that's going to work at every track you go to. Try some of the different settings and find the ones that you like and work from there.
I do like dual mode with mod in dirt. The throttle just feels better for me and I don't need that extra snap in dirt. With the spec motors I still run sensored only but dual mode is nice in mod.
It's just another thing to try for the class and track that you are running. There's no one single set-up that's going to work at every track you go to. Try some of the different settings and find the ones that you like and work from there.
05-31-2009, 08:02 AM
#4028
I think this may have been mentioned before but cant recall the answer.
I'm using the RS PRO with v194 software.
Settings of interest:
Mode = Sensored Only
Motor Type = BL-FW
When I set this value on the Hotwire and read it back from ESC all is well.
However, on the standalone ESC LED display, when I select the Quick Tune Mode of "Motor Type", all the LEDs are displayed (should only be LED 1 on).
Is this a feature?
Cheers
I'm using the RS PRO with v194 software.
Settings of interest:
Mode = Sensored Only
Motor Type = BL-FW
When I set this value on the Hotwire and read it back from ESC all is well.
However, on the standalone ESC LED display, when I select the Quick Tune Mode of "Motor Type", all the LEDs are displayed (should only be LED 1 on).
Is this a feature?
Cheers
05-31-2009, 08:54 AM
#4029
It should show 1 led. Make sure you're not trying to select TP 6 or 7 since those are not unlocked yet.
Most of the team guys run Dual mode in Mod TC. The punch should be very similiar as should the speed. You do have to find the right gearing/timing relationship to compare the two though, I agree.
Most of the team guys run Dual mode in Mod TC. The punch should be very similiar as should the speed. You do have to find the right gearing/timing relationship to compare the two though, I agree.
05-31-2009, 09:17 AM
#4030
It should show 1 led. Make sure you're not trying to select TP 6 or 7 since those are not unlocked yet.
Most of the team guys run Dual mode in Mod TC. The punch should be very similiar as should the speed. You do have to find the right gearing/timing relationship to compare the two though, I agree.
Most of the team guys run Dual mode in Mod TC. The punch should be very similiar as should the speed. You do have to find the right gearing/timing relationship to compare the two though, I agree.
(2) To check, I disconnect the hotwire from computer, wait for software to terminate, and then reconnect hotwire to computer.
The hotwire menu indicates BL-FW as I expected (as are all other values).
(3) However, the standalone ESC has ALL 7 LEDs on for "Motor Type".
I have repeated this several times with the same results.
I can manually select BL-FW (LED 1 on) at the ESC.
Concerned / Confused ?
05-31-2009, 10:10 AM
#4031
It should show 1 led. Make sure you're not trying to select TP 6 or 7 since those are not unlocked yet.
Most of the team guys run Dual mode in Mod TC. The punch should be very similiar as should the speed. You do have to find the right gearing/timing relationship to compare the two though, I agree.
Most of the team guys run Dual mode in Mod TC. The punch should be very similiar as should the speed. You do have to find the right gearing/timing relationship to compare the two though, I agree.
(1) I'm using TP3
(2) To check, I disconnect the hotwire from computer, wait for software to terminate, and then reconnect hotwire to computer.
The hotwire menu indicates BL-FW as I expected (as are all other values).
(3) However, the standalone ESC has ALL 7 LEDs on for "Motor Type".
I have repeated this several times with the same results.
I can manually select BL-FW (LED 1 on) at the ESC.
Concerned / Confused ?
(2) To check, I disconnect the hotwire from computer, wait for software to terminate, and then reconnect hotwire to computer.
The hotwire menu indicates BL-FW as I expected (as are all other values).
(3) However, the standalone ESC has ALL 7 LEDs on for "Motor Type".
I have repeated this several times with the same results.
I can manually select BL-FW (LED 1 on) at the ESC.
Concerned / Confused ?
(2) I've tried some more experiments.
(a) In DualMode, everything at both ends works fine (Hotwire & ESC), and changing any end reflects accurately at the other end.
(b) In SensoredOnlyMode, the MotorType shows all 7 LEDs on.
If I change the MotorType at the ESC, the hotwire indicates that the operating mode is now DualMode.
(c) In SensoredOnlyMode, here is what happens between Hotwire and ESC:
Hotwire=BL-FW >> ESC=All 7 LEDs on.
Hotwire=BL-F/R >> ESC=LED 1 on.
Hotwire=BL-DL >>> ESC=LED 1 on.
When I disconnect and then reconnect the ESC (without changing anything at the ESC), the hotwire software gets the MotorType correct !!
I have no idea what is going on.
05-31-2009, 10:36 AM
#4034
There were a few versions of 194.
Please download the latest version and recheck:
www.teamtekin.com/hotwire.html
Please download the latest version and recheck:
www.teamtekin.com/hotwire.html
05-31-2009, 10:54 AM
#4035
Tech Fanatic
I don't think I've ever seen a greater collection of amateurs trying the patience of a single professional!!! 
It was the great Chinese philosopher Tao who said that "unless you have personally experienced something, you cannot possibly understand it." Me? I'm just doing exactly what Randy tells me to do and trying it all out on the track. I don't understand it yet (as every time Randy explains it, someone else puts something else up that confuses me!!) but I know one thing - my World GT has never been faster!
Next time someone tries to explain it, here's my challenge - do it in plain English in less than 25 words. For mere mortals like me that's the only chance I have of getting anywhere near an understanding!!
It was the great Chinese philosopher Tao who said that "unless you have personally experienced something, you cannot possibly understand it." Me? I'm just doing exactly what Randy tells me to do and trying it all out on the track. I don't understand it yet (as every time Randy explains it, someone else puts something else up that confuses me!!) but I know one thing - my World GT has never been faster!
Next time someone tries to explain it, here's my challenge - do it in plain English in less than 25 words. For mere mortals like me that's the only chance I have of getting anywhere near an understanding!!