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Old 10-27-2008, 08:20 AM   #2896
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Originally Posted by Kevin K View Post
It was awesome to see so many guys at the Gate for Trans AM thats a good sign......now here in the midwest(IL, IN and WI) there is two more races back to back....Hurricane All-Star Carpet series in Madison WI on Saturday the 1st and then the Great Lakes race in Michiana IN on Saturday the 8th....both should have close to 25+ guys in Trans AM alone I would think.
Just thought I would mention the race at michiana (mishawaka Indiana - www.michianarc.com) is on the 9th, Sunday. Were looking forward to it. Bring out your 12th stock/17.5 and TC 13.5 as well!

Seeya then.
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Old 10-27-2008, 08:23 AM   #2897
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you can't compare haynes times to the rest, he was just play dialed, he prolly did the same in 13.5 rubber, he tq'd and won both. I was there I saw the field, I am telling you they are close.
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Old 10-27-2008, 08:32 AM   #2898
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As previously stated, nothing is being changed yet, however, it is happening at too many tracks around the country that the FDR for 21.5 is producing cars that are just plain too fast. As always with the USVTA rules package, if we feel that there is an imbalance in competition, we will make adjustments to keep everything fair.

The object is NEVER to see one type of car 2.-.4 faster than another type, regardless of the track. And in the bigger picture, we never want to see Vintage Trans Am cars running the same lap times as Stock Rubber.

Decisions will be made for the better of the class as a whole, not for individual racers or tracks.
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Old 10-27-2008, 08:37 AM   #2899
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I agree with Mike..."Over-engineering" Kills. Could bring an unintended black cloud instead of the intended sunshine. Please don't get me wrong, I love rules and standards, but having too many, or constantly making changes will eventually chase racers away. Its probably best to leave things were they are, or if any thing maybe find ways to advance the other two go-power specs so they can compete better with the 21.5s. Allowing lower/limited MAH Lipos with the 17.5s for example...Just a thought.
I think it would be more attractive to maybe find ways to advance the other two allowed go-power specs (27t/17.5) over that of handicapping the 21.5 spec. This may put more smiles on faces. Slowing the 21.5s will more than likely put a frown on the faces of those who run that go-power spec, and could result in losing racers. ... JMO...

What ever is decided, I'm sure it will all work out, and close V-TA racing will continue.
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Old 10-27-2008, 08:53 AM   #2900
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I actually geared down in my 21.5 and got faster lap times, maybe something as simple as no timing advance of the motor? I got beat buy a guy who ran 4 cell 17.5 so I still don't understand teh problem. It is easier to go fast with the 21.5 lipo, maybe that is where the problem is.
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Old 10-27-2008, 09:14 AM   #2901
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Allowing lower/limited MAH Lipos with the 17.5s for example...Just a thought.
You would still have 7.4volts. I think if you did that then they would run away from the pack. It would be worse than it is with the 21.5 lipo.
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Old 10-27-2008, 09:15 AM   #2902
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Hey everyone I love this class! I have a couple of ?? .
I ran this weekend on carpet and was way down on lap times compared to the other cars. I know my setup was for asphaft. i was making changes all day and got alittle faster. Another problem I had was no traction compound on the tires.
1st dose anyone have a good starting point for a TC 5 on carpet.
2nd will adjusting the timing on the 21.5 make a big differnce, and how should i do it?

Outdoor I was running in the top 3 but inside tam almost last.

Thanks Rodney
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Old 10-27-2008, 09:20 AM   #2903
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I think it would be more attractive to maybe find ways to advance the other two allowed go-power specs (27t/17.5) over that of handicapping the 21.5 spec.
So all of those racers have to buy new stuff to be competitive instead of the 21.5 guys just having to buy a new pinion?

More importantly, like Doug is saying, ratcheting up the 4-cell specs to catch up with the 21.5 cars just plays into the "arms race" scenario where speeds exceed what is appropriate and intended for USVTA anyway.

It's not "over engineering". It's the same amount of engineering that there is currently, just with a different FDR value. This class is still young and there will inevitably be some adjustments.

Within a couple of years tops everyone will be running 21.5 anyway.
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Old 10-27-2008, 09:25 AM   #2904
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So all of those racers have to buy new stuff to be competitive instead of the 21.5 guys just having to buy a new pinion?

More importantly, like Doug is saying, ratcheting up the 4-cell specs to catch up with the 21.5 cars just plays into the "arms race" scenario where speeds exceed what is appropriate and intended for USVTA anyway.

Bingo....if smaller pinion is needed for the 21.5 to tighten back up the cars then so be it. I dont know of a change smaller then that, that would inturn make racing that much better and not be that big of a deal plus be cheap to do.

Like Doug keeps saying this is just something that hes looking at.....nothing has been done yet so lets all see how it plays out.



TMhippo....I would start with one of the TC5R setup sheets and go from there as a good place to start. As far as the timing you loosen the 3 silver screws on the back of the motor and turn the black timing ring counter clock-wise until it stops to be at max timing....or depending on what ESC you have you can advance it in the ESC too.
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Old 10-27-2008, 09:32 AM   #2905
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I have to say I like not having to get a bag to take my car home. I broke my car every weekend running touring/13.5.

VTA is just better for me! Its just better.....

I can understand him wanting to speed the other classes up to 21.5. and I dont think the 21.5s are that much quicker than the other combos in most instances.

This is just a growing pain that will pass once most racers are on to 21.5 lipo. Perhaps leaving it alone is the best way to nudge every one toward the lipo powerplant.
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Old 10-27-2008, 09:49 AM   #2906
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This is just a growing pain that will pass once most racers are on to 21.5 lipo. Perhaps leaving it alone is the best way to nudge every one toward the lipo powerplant.
Honestly, this is a reasonable option, as well. We just don't want to have the VTA cars too close to lap times of Stock Rubber, making it just another class that is "too fast."


In my opinion, i don't know if reducing the FDR will change things too much, and I'm guessing that the timing might need to be dialed back on the 21.5s. The problem is, this will be very difficult to police everywhere, especially on cars that ESCs have adjustable timing.

It's a slippery slope, no doubt, but the object is to keep things as close and fair as possible for everyone.
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Old 10-27-2008, 10:19 AM   #2907
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Honestly, this is a reasonable option, as well. We just don't want to have the VTA cars too close to lap times of Stock Rubber, making it just another class that is "too fast."


In my opinion, i don't know if reducing the FDR will change things too much, and I'm guessing that the timing might need to be dialed back on the 21.5s. The problem is, this will be very difficult to police everywhere, especially on cars that ESCs have adjustable timing.

It's a slippery slope, no doubt, but the object is to keep things as close and fair as possible for everyone.
Yeah, the timing thing would be a pain to police. With FDR, bring your car by the tech table, I look at your spur and pinion, and pop them into your chassis' row on the FDR calculator on the USVTA web site. Done.
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Old 10-27-2008, 10:27 AM   #2908
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Back from racing VTA at the gate, Just want to thank the guys with gearing suggestion. VTA racing was actually faster than I thought it was, but it was still a blast, its good to see that you can throw any old car out there and the playing field it fun and equal. Nashracer it was fun duking it out with you in the b-main. And to the guys that created the series a big THANK YOU!.

I'm all for slowing things down, just keep in mind that the main reason that haynes car was as quick as it was it from his set-up, the car carries insane amounts of corner speed. There was a red mustang that had just as much rip as he did down the straight, but it seemed to lack the momentum in the infield.

bigemike the guy that beat you with the 17.5 did you get his FDR by any chance, I'm curious how far of my gearing was.
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Old 10-27-2008, 10:28 AM   #2909
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What would you consider to close to another class in lap times?

With the current layout we have here Super Stock is at 9.97 ( avg 10.2), Stock is at 10.5 (avg 11.2), Sportsman 12.3 (avg 13's) and T/A 11.3. Those are "hot lap" times and not race averages,and in the hands of the fast guys. Granted the layout is fast,probably to fast, but if you blow one turn during your run add a second to your lap time.
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Old 10-27-2008, 10:45 AM   #2910
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Hold your guns Fellas, u got a things a bit twisted...Not saying everyone should go out and buy new stuff to catch up to the 21.5s...just saying a more open option to the 17.5s "MIGHT" be another point to look at...It would be your choice to take the option. Just like the NIMH batteries, and "recommended" FDR for 27t/17.5... There is a LIMIT of 4600 MAH for 4c NIMH, but you don't have to "buy" expensive 4600 MAH...You can buy 39s or 42s if you like, but the "option" for a bit more go is there.
Hell, to be honest, I personally would like to see everything go down to 1 go power spec, period. 1 set motor, 1 set battery, with the recommended FDR..cut and dry. That way there would be no questions or speculations. No grey areas. No guessing which go power spec is faster on this or that track. Rule breakers would be more easily scouted... Tech would be easier, and the racing is on a real deal "spec" level...Again...JMO Fellas, JMO.
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