SMC Lipos 7.4 5000mah
09-24-2007, 04:48 PM
#376
I just killed my first Maxamps pack like a month ago...owned it for over a year. It has seen the underside of a car tire twice (my Pro4 got run over once because of me showing off, another time, a driver was a prick), met the boards several times, causing forced ejections from the car. The final ejection caused its demise and the car was HAULING. If any of these johny come lately's can send me a pack to abuse, I will give it my seal. Hey, anyone going to take me and TurboJoe up on the offer to have linger test the pack..chip in $10 dollars everyone. Linger will give it a go and if he says the SMC is worth a buck 30, then I'll ponder on making the leap.
09-24-2007, 04:52 PM
#377
No... this isn't about me trying to misquote anything you said 10 pages back, etc.
"Our" discussion... isn't really about SMC's stuff anymore.
See, that's not it at all. I never said it was a bad idea to ask... or a bad idea for SMC to give out more info.
Where we disagree is how much of a tantrum we should throw, and how much mud to sling if they don't give us what we want.
I'm saying some here are WAY over zealous in attacking a relatively small company who is bringing a new product on the market.
The dead horse thing is funny though.
BTW, if they are just normal "unsafe" lipos and don't have a special formula like the Kokams.... then they are like almost every other cell in the R/C market.
I'm pretty sure one of the SMC guys said... if you don't like it don't buy it. Maybe not the most PC response but it's pretty clear.
"Our" discussion... isn't really about SMC's stuff anymore.
See, that's not it at all. I never said it was a bad idea to ask... or a bad idea for SMC to give out more info.
Where we disagree is how much of a tantrum we should throw, and how much mud to sling if they don't give us what we want.
I'm saying some here are WAY over zealous in attacking a relatively small company who is bringing a new product on the market.
The dead horse thing is funny though.
BTW, if they are just normal "unsafe" lipos and don't have a special formula like the Kokams.... then they are like almost every other cell in the R/C market.
I'm pretty sure one of the SMC guys said... if you don't like it don't buy it. Maybe not the most PC response but it's pretty clear.
haha...
09-24-2007, 04:53 PM
#378
You know I am in agreeance with you on that. Orion has the hardcase and built in protection which others do not have. With full disclosure backing them, I can see why they cost what they do. Maxamps is a bit more for the budgeted and have more variety and have served me well which is why I am using them. BUT, for companies attempting to cheap their way into the fray (soft case) coming out the gate with near Orion prices, they need to ease off the crack.
6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, and bxpitbull and Turbo Joe agreed.
09-24-2007, 04:54 PM
#379
Kuzo, you are a damn fool! 
Actually, Turbo and I buried the hatchet a few weeks ago, around the time he went to Maui. The pitbull reserves the animosity for those that are deservant. People who actually THINK for a living, I want to converse with them, not debate (most of the time anyways)
Actually, Turbo and I buried the hatchet a few weeks ago, around the time he went to Maui. The pitbull reserves the animosity for those that are deservant. People who actually THINK for a living, I want to converse with them, not debate (most of the time anyways)
09-24-2007, 04:59 PM
#380
Anyway, I think I've done my part in beating Leodis' horse to a pulp. I'm done with this thread for the 2nd time.
09-24-2007, 05:03 PM
#381
Nope. I run soft case because of mitigating circumstances. If I bought a different charger and Orion wasnt so expensive (when I went lipo, I was nervous; figured if I burned one up, let it be less expensive). I remember your line of reasoning and they are quite valid. People that want to argue with you over your points and safety concerns are....DUMB!
09-24-2007, 05:05 PM
#382
Im glad to see I wasnt alone in my desire for information. Nice spirited debate. If nothing else Im sure anyone working on releasing a lipo that may have seen this thread learned a little bit about what people want in a lipo pack.
09-24-2007, 05:07 PM
#383
just came back around to repeat what I said already. (before taking cheap shots left and right) Glad we don't have to go 12 rounds again to get you to understand that
09-25-2007, 02:21 AM
#385
To Jack or Danny,
Would it be possible for you guys to post data comparing the new Lipo pack to the SMC IB 4200 6 cell pack? I'm interested in what the voltage discharge curve compares from a full charge to 5.4 V at 35 amps. Also, I'm interested in the performance of the pack after 50 cycles, 100 cycles and 200 cycles, and if you have some old data from the IB 4200 to make a comparison.
Also, does your battery support the 2C charging rate, and what is the recommended chargers for your lipo battery?
Would it be possible for you guys to post data comparing the new Lipo pack to the SMC IB 4200 6 cell pack? I'm interested in what the voltage discharge curve compares from a full charge to 5.4 V at 35 amps. Also, I'm interested in the performance of the pack after 50 cycles, 100 cycles and 200 cycles, and if you have some old data from the IB 4200 to make a comparison.
Also, does your battery support the 2C charging rate, and what is the recommended chargers for your lipo battery?
I could give you the info your looking for but it would take me sometime. One of the things is that Lipos shouldn't be discharged under 6 volts while NiMH can be discharged down to 5.4 volts.
It's my experience and understanding that NiMH will have more available power especially in the early part of the discharge curve. Near the middle it's similar then the extra capacity of the Lipos will take over but in the majority of the racing classes the extra capacity is overkill.
As I have said before the problem with Lipos is that it's relatively new technology with many manufacturers involved. We seem to be getting some people upset because were not using Kokam, Ennerland or Saehan Lipos which seem to be the most commonly used. That being said the manufacturer we use is making high quality lipos and yes they are made in China. The problem I see is that Lipos will evolve and there is no real way to tech them. Since the price for a high quality lipo is 100+ dollars this can hurt competitive racing. Yes Lipos do have some advantages for certain types of racing but in high end racing it will create issues due to companies pushing the limits to have better performing lipos.
You can get upset at me and my company but the fact is that I have been racing RC cars for 22 years and have been involved in this industry for many years and my concerns are real and based on what I know and understand.
09-25-2007, 02:29 AM
#386
actually, i dont. With all of the companies sprouting up with soft cased lipos, I feel eventually, safety will be compromised. To keep costs down (except SMC, $130-$152 soft case
), it seems that almost everyone out there is coming out with cheapie lipos. This makes me a lil nervous. I can vouch for Maxamps, but it seems that manufacturers are dropping it like its hot just to have their packs in the fray. When the hullabaloo was "hard case is the way to go", the fact that so many are abandoning this option is a bit startling.
), it seems that almost everyone out there is coming out with cheapie lipos. This makes me a lil nervous. I can vouch for Maxamps, but it seems that manufacturers are dropping it like its hot just to have their packs in the fray. When the hullabaloo was "hard case is the way to go", the fact that so many are abandoning this option is a bit startling.There is no problem for a regular style Lipo when used in the proper car/truck. I know this is an onroad forum where most of you run sedans but cam you stop and think that our Lipo pack was designed and built to fit in offroad cars/ trucks.
When we do come out with a Lipo pack in a hard case then you guys can pass on your proffesional comments.
As far as pricing goes last time I checked Horizon Hobby was selling our Lipo pack 15 dollars cheaper than the Orion 4800/20C pack. When I look at Lipo pricing capacity and C rate increases the price.
09-25-2007, 02:35 AM
#387
People offer softpacks because they are available easily and from many sources. There is no investment required to buy these already available packs. Almost all of them are not really the right size or perform as they claim. Consistancy is also a major problem with the lack of manufacturing control. We have a pile of lousy lipo samples
Anyone of you can buy these batteries, as is, right now... as long as you have the cash for minimum orders and have nothing to lose or can afford the product liability insurance.
If you want a cell that is designed for our applications specifically it takes thought and investment. Designing and tooling the 'right' product is not cheap. Of course you might go broke competing against the cheap stuff. It is sad but in the end you have to admit price rules for the masses.
Tekin Prez
Anyone of you can buy these batteries, as is, right now... as long as you have the cash for minimum orders and have nothing to lose or can afford the product liability insurance.
If you want a cell that is designed for our applications specifically it takes thought and investment. Designing and tooling the 'right' product is not cheap. Of course you might go broke competing against the cheap stuff. It is sad but in the end you have to admit price rules for the masses.
Tekin Prez
Nice post.
Yes we have invested in tooling to get our 5000 pack to be a size that fits offroad cars/trucks and sedans if you want to run a regular case pack.
It has never been my companies goals to bash other companies products. I have tested allot of Lipos from various companies and we have released what we feel is the best 5000/22C lipos currently available on the market.
I could easily post graphs and data but to do this I would have to name other companies that I compare our packs to and I don't feel this is good business practice.
09-25-2007, 02:38 AM
#388
Team Tekin: I applaud you for saying what most here know: quality and value must be thought through and the product planned out.
On another note, tekin has been refining their new speedos for a year. You are doing things the way they should be done, perfect the product for the market and then release it.
I think that when it comes to batteries, racers are willing to spend more on premium product. In this thread, the accepted cost for a 5000mah lipo pack is $120-$150, which is the cost for the orion hard cased 4800 pack. The debate is whether smc has done anything to justify their price versus saying "trust us."
It seems that smc has done exactly what you said, find a source to create generic lipo packs, slap on a label, and voila, you are in the lipo battery business. Of course the best way to refute that claim is to simply offer any meaningfull specs on the pack.
On another note, tekin has been refining their new speedos for a year. You are doing things the way they should be done, perfect the product for the market and then release it.
I think that when it comes to batteries, racers are willing to spend more on premium product. In this thread, the accepted cost for a 5000mah lipo pack is $120-$150, which is the cost for the orion hard cased 4800 pack. The debate is whether smc has done anything to justify their price versus saying "trust us."
It seems that smc has done exactly what you said, find a source to create generic lipo packs, slap on a label, and voila, you are in the lipo battery business. Of course the best way to refute that claim is to simply offer any meaningfull specs on the pack.
What has Orion created ? They just use Kokam packs and market them. Last time I checked Kokam wasn't the leader in Lipo technology but you guys may want to believe all the hype.
Sorry that SMC hasn't designed and built it's own Lipo pack.
09-25-2007, 05:15 AM
#389
Tech Apprentice
Thank you for your candid responses Danny, I think many here will appreciate them, regardless of whether or not they agree.
Last edited by undark; 09-25-2007 at 07:38 AM.
09-25-2007, 06:02 AM
#390
Danny,
I have a few questions for you (while you are at it):
- If you were to puncture this pack (lets say from a nail sticking out on the track barrier). What would happen?
- If your charger went haywire and didnt cut off properly when fully charged what would happen to the pack?
- If you were to short the pack out what happens?
- If you accidentally over discharged the pack what happens?
- If you happened to dent the pack what happens?
- How many cycles can I expect to get out of the pack before I begin to lose noticable performance?
- Can I charge this pack at 2C? What does it do to the lifetime of the pack?
- What temperatures should I store the packs at?
- When do you recommend balancing the pack?
I have a few questions for you (while you are at it):
- If you were to puncture this pack (lets say from a nail sticking out on the track barrier). What would happen?
- If your charger went haywire and didnt cut off properly when fully charged what would happen to the pack?
- If you were to short the pack out what happens?
- If you accidentally over discharged the pack what happens?
- If you happened to dent the pack what happens?
- How many cycles can I expect to get out of the pack before I begin to lose noticable performance?
- Can I charge this pack at 2C? What does it do to the lifetime of the pack?
- What temperatures should I store the packs at?
- When do you recommend balancing the pack?