New Protoform body: DNA1: For Racing Only
07-24-2006, 02:16 PM
#91
Tech Addict
DNA1
k_bojar:
The DNA1 sedan body is geared specifically for carpet use as out press release states. It is a 4 dr and the foam tires mounted under it in the photos are cut down to about 56mm. The body has 2 lower edge trim lines - one for legal 115mm "legal" racing, and one for club racing thats a few mm lower. A ROAR/IFMAR legal 20mm rear "kick" on the wing will be "at" or slightly below hoof height when mounted.
There very well may be a rubber tire version and a 200mm version on the DNA at a later date. It will be evaluated.
robk:
On the DNA project I could have gone the route of doing a "Type M" (or whatever letter available) and given the body a hint of similarity to a real car. But I thought "who are we kidding here?" No offence to my friends Paul & Mike (at Parma), but their Type M body has virtually no (none - zero - nada) similarities to a Mazda body, if that was even really their intent, nor do many other "Type whatever" bodies. Why bother with some silly name-game that fools nobody?
I've been under the distinct impression that as long as the no-name new body submitted to ROAR fit within their rules for max/min. dimensions and has the reasonable appearance of a global 4dr sedan, it would be acceptable. There's nothing on this body style that's more radical than what's seen on todays generation of sport/touring sedans marketed by Audi, M.Benz, Alfa Romeo, Acura, Infinity etc
The proposed new rule package will be based on a more detailed set of A-to-B measurements to prevent trunk lid areas from getting too long, roofs getting too narrow and domed, hoods too short, side windows too low, spitters too deep etc etc. From what I know, the implementing of these new body dimension rules would kind of take things back a couple of years to what the rc touring cars looked like in approx. 2003. (Pf Stratus 2.0 era) Hopefully this will make even the BRCA folks happy. In my opinion I think its awsome.
Dale - PROTOform
The DNA1 sedan body is geared specifically for carpet use as out press release states. It is a 4 dr and the foam tires mounted under it in the photos are cut down to about 56mm. The body has 2 lower edge trim lines - one for legal 115mm "legal" racing, and one for club racing thats a few mm lower. A ROAR/IFMAR legal 20mm rear "kick" on the wing will be "at" or slightly below hoof height when mounted.
There very well may be a rubber tire version and a 200mm version on the DNA at a later date. It will be evaluated.
robk:
On the DNA project I could have gone the route of doing a "Type M" (or whatever letter available) and given the body a hint of similarity to a real car. But I thought "who are we kidding here?" No offence to my friends Paul & Mike (at Parma), but their Type M body has virtually no (none - zero - nada) similarities to a Mazda body, if that was even really their intent, nor do many other "Type whatever" bodies. Why bother with some silly name-game that fools nobody?
I've been under the distinct impression that as long as the no-name new body submitted to ROAR fit within their rules for max/min. dimensions and has the reasonable appearance of a global 4dr sedan, it would be acceptable. There's nothing on this body style that's more radical than what's seen on todays generation of sport/touring sedans marketed by Audi, M.Benz, Alfa Romeo, Acura, Infinity etc
The proposed new rule package will be based on a more detailed set of A-to-B measurements to prevent trunk lid areas from getting too long, roofs getting too narrow and domed, hoods too short, side windows too low, spitters too deep etc etc. From what I know, the implementing of these new body dimension rules would kind of take things back a couple of years to what the rc touring cars looked like in approx. 2003. (Pf Stratus 2.0 era) Hopefully this will make even the BRCA folks happy. In my opinion I think its awsome.
Dale - PROTOform
07-24-2006, 02:54 PM
#93
Tech Adept
iTrader: (4)
It's good to know something is going on behind the scenes to keep TC's as we know them alive.
Thanks for the responses Dale. Above and beyond what a lot of people would do on your end of the business.
One other thing to keep an eye on are windshields for 200mm. I think ROAR (going off of memory here) has a rule that says the 50% fueling/cooling hole has to be on the windshield. On several cars the fuel tank hole is pretty far back...so I guess what some body manufacturers would do is just to make the windshield ridiculously large so you can put that hole pretty far back (larger than the hood of a body out there already, in one case!). I guess it might be addressed with what you outlined above, though.
Thank you again. My $.02 has expired on this thread.
Thanks for the responses Dale. Above and beyond what a lot of people would do on your end of the business.
One other thing to keep an eye on are windshields for 200mm. I think ROAR (going off of memory here) has a rule that says the 50% fueling/cooling hole has to be on the windshield. On several cars the fuel tank hole is pretty far back...so I guess what some body manufacturers would do is just to make the windshield ridiculously large so you can put that hole pretty far back (larger than the hood of a body out there already, in one case!). I guess it might be addressed with what you outlined above, though.
Thank you again. My $.02 has expired on this thread.
07-26-2006, 06:45 AM
#94
Dale:
Do you have any estimate on when the new body will be ROAR approved? I'm sure it's been submitted, and you probably have a good idea on how long it typically takes.
My reason for asking is the IIC states that only ROAR and IFMAR approved bodies are permitted.
Not sure if the "ROAR and IFMAR" is going to cause any confusion. I.E. does it have to be approved by BOTH, or simply either one?
Thanks!
Do you have any estimate on when the new body will be ROAR approved? I'm sure it's been submitted, and you probably have a good idea on how long it typically takes.
My reason for asking is the IIC states that only ROAR and IFMAR approved bodies are permitted.
Not sure if the "ROAR and IFMAR" is going to cause any confusion. I.E. does it have to be approved by BOTH, or simply either one?
Thanks!
07-30-2006, 03:55 PM
#95
I've read a few of these posts talking about "licensing" and "fees". Question 1: Do the current bodies require Protoform (for example) to pay royalties in order to use the name and likeness of a particular car, and Question 2: will we see the price of touring car bodies come down when these royalties are no longer being payed?
07-31-2006, 02:59 AM
#96
1. yes, but many makers get around this by making faked logos (OFNA with a quasi-Ferrari logo on a Porsche body) or just calling them D-type or M-style, etc.
2. possibly!
2. possibly!
08-03-2006, 02:11 PM
#97
Tech Addict
DNA1 Questions
Sorry for the slow responce guys. I was away on a little mini-vacation. I only had a chance to get my creative "batteries" half charged. But - I'm back to making dust in my shop.
McSmooth:
Yes, the DNA1 has been submitted to ROAR for approval. I don't have any tentative date as to when we will recieve an answer. I'll post it here as soon as I know something. (I don't expect any problems - meaning I'm fairly certain it will be on Scotty's IIC approved list when it goes to print)
stiltskin:
1. Yes - RC body manufacturers are required by law to pay royalties to the auto manufacturers for the name and likeness of every body thats sold. Some body companies (especially those in Italy, Asia, Holland and UK) "fly under the radar" so to speak, and pay absolutely nothing.
2. No - you probably won't see prices come down much or even at all. Lexan is an oil by-product and thus the price is constantly on the rise. We've seen our gasoline prices triple in the last couple of years - with no relief in site. In the early 90's an average rc body list price was $19.95. So, in the last decade and a half the cost of the average racebody has only increased approx. 25 - 30% while our costs to manufacture the average body has gone up approx 400% or more. These increases are from: raw material price increases for lexan as well as mold-making materials, increases in labour rates and associated employee benefits and insurances etc, shipping costs that have over doubled, increases in advertising rates, and other promotional tools, the rising cost of packaging materials, decals & window masks (which were not included 10 years ago) and the grossly out of line royalty rates - not to mention the cost of clerical personel to keep the books and contracts up to date. It's all about volume these days - just to make it worth doing.
As for PROTOform, you'll notice that the DNA1 (like the Nemesis) is already a dollar less than the fully licenced bodies on our web site. We're trying our best to be fair - believe me.
Guess this is one reason why it's kinda tough to know just how to feel about a situation like the one I faced at the Worlds in Italy. Some dude has a body sales table set up outside the pit area - where he proceeds to proudly shows me his latest and greatest backpoured Mazda 6 body - that he made by backpouring someone elses "backpoured Pf Mazda 6". (he proudly showed me that one as well) It's just gotten totally crazy out there right now with the blatant bootlegging of proven, successfull rc bodies. Maybe this is why some "more reputable" rc companies now feel they have the moral right to rip us off and hide behind the "Type S/Type M" names. Hey, without the royalty payments to cut into their expenses, they're even able to sell the product for less money than Pf as well.
All I know for sure is this: Integrity always wins in the end - even if you end up going out of business while trying . There's much more to life than easy profit.
Forgive me for my rant - but it's all indirectly related to your question.
Regards - Dale - PROTOform
McSmooth:
Yes, the DNA1 has been submitted to ROAR for approval. I don't have any tentative date as to when we will recieve an answer. I'll post it here as soon as I know something. (I don't expect any problems - meaning I'm fairly certain it will be on Scotty's IIC approved list when it goes to print)
stiltskin:
1. Yes - RC body manufacturers are required by law to pay royalties to the auto manufacturers for the name and likeness of every body thats sold. Some body companies (especially those in Italy, Asia, Holland and UK) "fly under the radar" so to speak, and pay absolutely nothing.
2. No - you probably won't see prices come down much or even at all. Lexan is an oil by-product and thus the price is constantly on the rise. We've seen our gasoline prices triple in the last couple of years - with no relief in site. In the early 90's an average rc body list price was $19.95. So, in the last decade and a half the cost of the average racebody has only increased approx. 25 - 30% while our costs to manufacture the average body has gone up approx 400% or more. These increases are from: raw material price increases for lexan as well as mold-making materials, increases in labour rates and associated employee benefits and insurances etc, shipping costs that have over doubled, increases in advertising rates, and other promotional tools, the rising cost of packaging materials, decals & window masks (which were not included 10 years ago) and the grossly out of line royalty rates - not to mention the cost of clerical personel to keep the books and contracts up to date. It's all about volume these days - just to make it worth doing.
As for PROTOform, you'll notice that the DNA1 (like the Nemesis) is already a dollar less than the fully licenced bodies on our web site. We're trying our best to be fair - believe me.
Guess this is one reason why it's kinda tough to know just how to feel about a situation like the one I faced at the Worlds in Italy. Some dude has a body sales table set up outside the pit area - where he proceeds to proudly shows me his latest and greatest backpoured Mazda 6 body - that he made by backpouring someone elses "backpoured Pf Mazda 6". (he proudly showed me that one as well) It's just gotten totally crazy out there right now with the blatant bootlegging of proven, successfull rc bodies. Maybe this is why some "more reputable" rc companies now feel they have the moral right to rip us off and hide behind the "Type S/Type M" names. Hey, without the royalty payments to cut into their expenses, they're even able to sell the product for less money than Pf as well.
All I know for sure is this: Integrity always wins in the end - even if you end up going out of business while trying . There's much more to life than easy profit.
Forgive me for my rant - but it's all indirectly related to your question.
Regards - Dale - PROTOform
08-11-2006, 11:19 AM
#101
Tech Addict
DNA1
Anthony.L & Jack Smash:
I can't really figure out what's going on with Horizon's buying habits ?? Either way, Great Planes, HRP, ERI etc have all ordered the body. It was released July 17th.
DA_cookie_monst:
Like it appears numerous times in this thread: the DNA1 is a carpet/foam body.
It's been sent to ROAR for inspection/approval. Hope to hear something soon in that regard.
Dale - PROTOform
I can't really figure out what's going on with Horizon's buying habits ?? Either way, Great Planes, HRP, ERI etc have all ordered the body. It was released July 17th.
DA_cookie_monst:
Like it appears numerous times in this thread: the DNA1 is a carpet/foam body.
It's been sent to ROAR for inspection/approval. Hope to hear something soon in that regard.
Dale - PROTOform
08-11-2006, 12:39 PM
#102
Tech Master
Originally Posted by daleepp
Some dude has a body sales table set up outside the pit area - where he proceeds to proudly shows me his latest and greatest backpoured Mazda 6 body - that he made by backpouring someone elses "backpoured Pf Mazda 6". (he proudly showed me that one as well)
Did you tell him it was your designs and that you wished him #**^Ī!!=** & Ī#""!
08-15-2006, 04:19 PM
#103
hmm... think I've just found the shell to use on my Evo5
Deffiently different, and as I'll really only really be using the car indoors (albeit on rubber) should be fine
Suit my paint scheme too 
Any idea when we'll get some over here in the UK Dale?
Cheers
Ed
Deffiently different, and as I'll really only really be using the car indoors (albeit on rubber) should be fine
Suit my paint scheme too Any idea when we'll get some over here in the UK Dale?
Cheers
Ed
08-15-2006, 04:31 PM
#104
Originally Posted by daleepp
Anthony.L & Jack Smash:
I can't really figure out what's going on with Horizon's buying habits ?? Either way, Great Planes, HRP, ERI etc have all ordered the body. It was released July 17th
I can't really figure out what's going on with Horizon's buying habits ?? Either way, Great Planes, HRP, ERI etc have all ordered the body. It was released July 17th