New Novak Stock Brushless
08-06-2006, 05:09 PM
#241
Are there any ways of positively identifying this motor as a 13.5 "stock" motor? Something easy for track personnal.
08-06-2006, 06:13 PM
#242
Originally Posted by syndr0me
So, if the sintered rotors are more resistant to heat damage, will we see motors with a higher cutoff temperature before they thermal, or more people cutting the sensor wires? If these rotors are legalized, hopefully they include some verbiage about not cutting sensor wires, and a standardized cutoff temperature.
The LRP/Nosram and Orion/GM speeds have no motor temp sensing so there is no diffrence with them.
08-06-2006, 08:54 PM
#243
The biggest problem with rushing off and allowing the brushless motors is the very distinct possibility of ruining stock motor racing. When you compete at the top level, you find out about things you don't discover fooling around at a weekend club race. I'm sure the novak motor would be a big hit at the club level. I don't see why there is an objection to running them there.
At the national race level, if these motors exaggerate the quality of the batteries (i.e. you need the *absolute* best to be fast, even more so than now), or thermalling problems are widespread, or there are a lot of variations in motor speed, that will turn people away immediately. That is *NOT* to say any of the above is true, just that we don't know these things yet. To mix the two motor types right now is premature.
Another factor to consider is that LRP and Orion, GM etc., have no equivalent motor- right now. Handing one manufacturer a whole class is not right. If they prove to be the best, and become the de facto standard (see Trinity), so be it. Not to mention, what about handout races? Or the speedo information posted above?
If you want to run these motors, talk to your local track. Rebuildable stock motors weren't legal until everybody had them and saw how much better it was.
At the national race level, if these motors exaggerate the quality of the batteries (i.e. you need the *absolute* best to be fast, even more so than now), or thermalling problems are widespread, or there are a lot of variations in motor speed, that will turn people away immediately. That is *NOT* to say any of the above is true, just that we don't know these things yet. To mix the two motor types right now is premature.
Another factor to consider is that LRP and Orion, GM etc., have no equivalent motor- right now. Handing one manufacturer a whole class is not right. If they prove to be the best, and become the de facto standard (see Trinity), so be it. Not to mention, what about handout races? Or the speedo information posted above?
If you want to run these motors, talk to your local track. Rebuildable stock motors weren't legal until everybody had them and saw how much better it was.
08-06-2006, 09:28 PM
#244
I just wanted to ask peoples opinions on ESC's and what people are using.
I was just about to spash out and get a GTB, as they can take both brushed and brushless motors, but then I thought about lipos and whether they could cope with a different type of battery, with a higher voltage, the GTB is rated for 6 cells.
I am now umming and ahhing over the LRP competition brushed/brushless esc, as it senses the type of battery nimh/lipo and adjusts, it can also take 7 cells. bit pricy, but I want to buy the *right* thing the first time...
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...2&I=LXLTY5&P=K
I was just about to spash out and get a GTB, as they can take both brushed and brushless motors, but then I thought about lipos and whether they could cope with a different type of battery, with a higher voltage, the GTB is rated for 6 cells.
I am now umming and ahhing over the LRP competition brushed/brushless esc, as it senses the type of battery nimh/lipo and adjusts, it can also take 7 cells. bit pricy, but I want to buy the *right* thing the first time...
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...2&I=LXLTY5&P=K
08-06-2006, 09:49 PM
#245
Tech Regular
Pete,
I have been using platinum lipo with 3 cars each equipped with GTB ESCs. Never had any problem. When Novak rated the ESC for 6 cells, they have already included the extra voltage achieved by the sub C cells right after it peaks. 7.4 lipo peaks at 8.4v and it's within the allowable voltage.
As for the Lipo auto shutdown, LRP Sphere competition has it but not the GTB. So far with GTB, after 10-12 minutes of running, I would be happy enough to stop cause my car handling has started to deteriorate.
Moreover, for long Lipo life, Team orion recommends that we use up to 80% of the capacity which is about 4000 mAh and not the full 4800 mah. Running it for 10 minutes using 5.5 BL consumes about 3800-4000 mAh. In this case, I dont really need that auto shutdown that comes with Sphere comp.
I have been using platinum lipo with 3 cars each equipped with GTB ESCs. Never had any problem. When Novak rated the ESC for 6 cells, they have already included the extra voltage achieved by the sub C cells right after it peaks. 7.4 lipo peaks at 8.4v and it's within the allowable voltage.
As for the Lipo auto shutdown, LRP Sphere competition has it but not the GTB. So far with GTB, after 10-12 minutes of running, I would be happy enough to stop cause my car handling has started to deteriorate.
Moreover, for long Lipo life, Team orion recommends that we use up to 80% of the capacity which is about 4000 mAh and not the full 4800 mah. Running it for 10 minutes using 5.5 BL consumes about 3800-4000 mAh. In this case, I dont really need that auto shutdown that comes with Sphere comp.
08-06-2006, 09:52 PM
#246
Originally Posted by robk
The biggest problem with rushing off and allowing the brushless motors is the very distinct possibility of ruining stock motor racing. When you compete at the top level, you find out about things you don't discover fooling around at a weekend club race. I'm sure the novak motor would be a big hit at the club level. I don't see why there is an objection to running them there.
My hope would be that that a brushless can be built with tighter tolerances and make the motor side even. It would be nice to show up for a big race and think that I have just as much rip as the next guy. On the battery side I think everyone who is serious buys new packs for a national event. Now will 1.21's get beat out by 1.22's? I doubt it, but if you show up with some tired 3300's your going to get beat no matter what kind of motor you have.
Last edited by tomdav; 08-07-2006 at 02:35 PM.
08-07-2006, 01:25 PM
#248
Originally Posted by robk
...Another factor to consider is that LRP and Orion, GM etc., have no equivalent motor- right now. Handing one manufacturer a whole class is not right. If they prove to be the best, and become the de facto standard (see Trinity), so be it. Not to mention, what about handout races? Or the speedo information posted above?
...
...
, please take a look at the "list" of the ROAR approved 19T motors ( http://www.roarracing.com/approvals/smotor.php ) 
I have a Corally 19T Spec which is far better than any of those two on the ROAR list... those motors are far from de facto standards but even if they are better still ROAR should give us more choice right?
08-08-2006, 01:33 AM
#251
Im giving Novak a big kudos for bringing the 13.5 to the table. I feel its kind of like Trinity when they came out the the Paradox rebuildable stock motor back in the late 90's. They were the only game in town until the other motor companies caught on and broght their rebuildable stock motors to the market and I feel this situation will be the same. Other companies will see that the 13.5 is a hit and make thier own stock brushless.
08-09-2006, 12:15 PM
#252
Originally Posted by CarbonWorks
Are there any ways of positively identifying this motor as a 13.5 "stock" motor? Something easy for track personnal.
Well, I just received my two Novak Super Sport 13.5 Stock Brushless Motors today and was very disappointed to see only a single tiny sticker that says "13.5" on it. I thought it would be mechanically imprinted on the case or endbell, not just a sticker. Novak, you are being too cheap! Only a sticker to identify the differences with half of their other brushless motors? Argh! I count 6 motors that look identical other than that small sticker?
This certainly makes it easier for cheating. Why not sell some stickers while you are at it Novak! I'm really rooting for brushless to take over as the new standard, but this cost cutting strategy is hurting everyone including Novak's future brushless sales.
Last edited by James35; 08-09-2006 at 12:52 PM.
08-10-2006, 04:23 AM
#254
I've enjoyed reading all of these posts. I've been racing on and off since 1991. I have seen people come and go (different reasons). I can remember not going to a race because I didn't have the money that week to buy another motor or armature or brushes. I hardly every ran at my house unless I got ahold of a cheap Kyosho 20 turn or something and even then I didn't run it much because I know I would need to rebuild it.
I bought my son a SS 5800 two years and 3 months ago. I had to install a 5-volt fan in front of the ESC to keep the temp down (right after I got it), but we have had no problems with it since then. I then bought a Sphere/Neo combo and then a GTB/6.5 combo last year for myself. Well, let me tell you... I have ran more batteries thru an RC vehicle in the last year than I have since 1991!!! I have gotten a lot better with my driving (practice makes perfect). Well, now when I go race I run my brushless stuff and if there is no body else there to run mod, I just run with stock and tell the track owner not to count me with the stock class. I will never put another brushed motor in a vehicle of mine again. They are what turned me to trying nitro. I have been waiting for brushless ever since I saw an AVIOX motor system in a MRC World Scale RC truck in Car Action YEARS AGO and they are finally here. Now I have sold all my Nitros. Of course they have bugs (rotors coming apart -I've had a Reedy to do it, ESC temps), but they are getting these fixed as we speak. We've started racing in a different location and everybody says "run whatever will keep you coming back and whater works for you. We are sick of seeing people leave the race track to never come back. All the guys who have stuck with it (some of which have turned to Nitro only) have really been impressed with my Cars and Trucks performance (especially with a Max Amps 8000 Li-Po). Running with Nitro 1/10 scale is a hoot!.
For all the guys that get a chance to participate regularly at a track where the stock class is big in entries every week, don't think this is the case everywhere. I raced down at Redstick a few time in Baton Rouge (awesome indoor track), and it was sickly impossible to stay up with those guys that had all the motor equipment and boxes of motors and now the track is closed for lack of participation. I like the idea of this stock brushless motor coming out. I think a lot of people are getting there drawers in a wad a little to quickly about it taking over stock racing though! The serious guys are what make up most of the stock racing and this will not happen over night. So don't worry. Myself, I'm just enjoyed the mess out of brushless.
I bought my son a SS 5800 two years and 3 months ago. I had to install a 5-volt fan in front of the ESC to keep the temp down (right after I got it), but we have had no problems with it since then. I then bought a Sphere/Neo combo and then a GTB/6.5 combo last year for myself. Well, let me tell you... I have ran more batteries thru an RC vehicle in the last year than I have since 1991!!! I have gotten a lot better with my driving (practice makes perfect). Well, now when I go race I run my brushless stuff and if there is no body else there to run mod, I just run with stock and tell the track owner not to count me with the stock class. I will never put another brushed motor in a vehicle of mine again. They are what turned me to trying nitro. I have been waiting for brushless ever since I saw an AVIOX motor system in a MRC World Scale RC truck in Car Action YEARS AGO and they are finally here. Now I have sold all my Nitros. Of course they have bugs (rotors coming apart -I've had a Reedy to do it, ESC temps), but they are getting these fixed as we speak. We've started racing in a different location and everybody says "run whatever will keep you coming back and whater works for you. We are sick of seeing people leave the race track to never come back. All the guys who have stuck with it (some of which have turned to Nitro only) have really been impressed with my Cars and Trucks performance (especially with a Max Amps 8000 Li-Po). Running with Nitro 1/10 scale is a hoot!.
For all the guys that get a chance to participate regularly at a track where the stock class is big in entries every week, don't think this is the case everywhere. I raced down at Redstick a few time in Baton Rouge (awesome indoor track), and it was sickly impossible to stay up with those guys that had all the motor equipment and boxes of motors and now the track is closed for lack of participation. I like the idea of this stock brushless motor coming out. I think a lot of people are getting there drawers in a wad a little to quickly about it taking over stock racing though! The serious guys are what make up most of the stock racing and this will not happen over night. So don't worry. Myself, I'm just enjoyed the mess out of brushless.
08-10-2006, 05:30 AM
#255
Originally Posted by James35
When I first saw this question, I didn't think much about it, because usually today's motor manufacturers physically change something on the motor itself, like the endbell, case color, imprinting into the case, labels glued onto the armature etc..
Well, I just received my two Novak Super Sport 13.5 Stock Brushless Motors today and was very disappointed to see only a single tiny sticker that says "13.5" on it. I thought it would be mechanically imprinted on the case or endbell, not just a sticker. Novak, you are being too cheap! Only a sticker to identify the differences with half of their other brushless motors? Argh! I count 6 motors that look identical other than that small sticker?
This certainly makes it easier for cheating. Why not sell some stickers while you are at it Novak! I'm really rooting for brushless to take over as the new standard, but this cost cutting strategy is hurting everyone including Novak's future brushless sales.
Well, I just received my two Novak Super Sport 13.5 Stock Brushless Motors today and was very disappointed to see only a single tiny sticker that says "13.5" on it. I thought it would be mechanically imprinted on the case or endbell, not just a sticker. Novak, you are being too cheap! Only a sticker to identify the differences with half of their other brushless motors? Argh! I count 6 motors that look identical other than that small sticker?
This certainly makes it easier for cheating. Why not sell some stickers while you are at it Novak! I'm really rooting for brushless to take over as the new standard, but this cost cutting strategy is hurting everyone including Novak's future brushless sales.
A DVOM can be used to tech the motor.