Team Associated TC5
07-26-2010, 06:01 PM
Tech Adept
A few setup questions for the experts:
1) According to the instructions, the S/M/L shims are 1/1.5/2 degrees respectively. When I used a medium and a large shim on the rear and threw it on a setup stand, it looked like both sides have 3 degrees of toe. All my parts are suspension parts are stock TC5R. Are people actually measuring this? Is there something else wrong with my car that I just haven't located? Seems odd that they line up perfectly but just not at the angle I expect on both sides.
2) Has anyone had problems with inner hinge pins popping out? I had a few light board taps, and my front end spit out the inner hinge pin. Nothing is broken and the hinge pin still seems really straight when I roll it on a flat surface. Both front arm mounts seemed to swivel just enough to let go of the hinge pin. When I get back to the pits and check the screws, the screws still seem tight, so its not as though I didn't have everything tightened down. I check this before/after every run. Is this just a normal wear item that I probably just need to replace?
3) Based on the design of the arm mounts, it seems like the standard screw size on the rear arm mounts for the rear arms are way too short. I've replaced them with longer screws, but those screws keep getting bent. I'm using a 2mm ball head hex driver which doesn't seem all that strong so I don't think I'm overtightening it. Did I just end up with some cheap screws (random LHS supplied screws from Patriot RC or something of the like) or is this a design problem that everyone just lives with?
4) I'm running a Protoform R9-R on a parking lot with grape soda and my rear end still fishtails a bit while the front end is almost always planted. I know the body is part of the problem, as these forums are rife with complaints about too much steering and/or not enough rear traction. However, there are also a handful of people who rave about how awesome the body is, so I figured if I worked at setup, I could eventually make it work with some more chassis tuning.
I want to add more rear toe, but I wasn't sure what was a reasonable max amount I should consider before looking elsewhere.
I don't have the full setup on me but it's more or less the stock TC5R rubber tire kit setup (front spool/rear diff/etc) with the following changes:
front shocks stood straight up with 45 wt oil
rear shocks laid down with 35 weight oil
no rear sway bar (didn't seem to make much of a difference with or without)
I was trying to stiffen the front and loosen the rear, but when I tried using gold springs up front that didn't seem to make much of a difference.
From reading John Stranahan's thread (the other TC5 thread), he seemed to think some of the usual suspension mods didn't act exactly as you'd expect with a spool. i.e. stiffen front = loose front traction, loosen front = more front traction, etc, but I haven't seen anyone else mention changes that didn't mesh with the standard rules.
I was thinking my next step was to try more rear toe and softer springs all around. Any advice?
1) According to the instructions, the S/M/L shims are 1/1.5/2 degrees respectively. When I used a medium and a large shim on the rear and threw it on a setup stand, it looked like both sides have 3 degrees of toe. All my parts are suspension parts are stock TC5R. Are people actually measuring this? Is there something else wrong with my car that I just haven't located? Seems odd that they line up perfectly but just not at the angle I expect on both sides.
2) Has anyone had problems with inner hinge pins popping out? I had a few light board taps, and my front end spit out the inner hinge pin. Nothing is broken and the hinge pin still seems really straight when I roll it on a flat surface. Both front arm mounts seemed to swivel just enough to let go of the hinge pin. When I get back to the pits and check the screws, the screws still seem tight, so its not as though I didn't have everything tightened down. I check this before/after every run. Is this just a normal wear item that I probably just need to replace?
3) Based on the design of the arm mounts, it seems like the standard screw size on the rear arm mounts for the rear arms are way too short. I've replaced them with longer screws, but those screws keep getting bent. I'm using a 2mm ball head hex driver which doesn't seem all that strong so I don't think I'm overtightening it. Did I just end up with some cheap screws (random LHS supplied screws from Patriot RC or something of the like) or is this a design problem that everyone just lives with?
4) I'm running a Protoform R9-R on a parking lot with grape soda and my rear end still fishtails a bit while the front end is almost always planted. I know the body is part of the problem, as these forums are rife with complaints about too much steering and/or not enough rear traction. However, there are also a handful of people who rave about how awesome the body is, so I figured if I worked at setup, I could eventually make it work with some more chassis tuning.
I want to add more rear toe, but I wasn't sure what was a reasonable max amount I should consider before looking elsewhere.
I don't have the full setup on me but it's more or less the stock TC5R rubber tire kit setup (front spool/rear diff/etc) with the following changes:
front shocks stood straight up with 45 wt oil
rear shocks laid down with 35 weight oil
no rear sway bar (didn't seem to make much of a difference with or without)
I was trying to stiffen the front and loosen the rear, but when I tried using gold springs up front that didn't seem to make much of a difference.
From reading John Stranahan's thread (the other TC5 thread), he seemed to think some of the usual suspension mods didn't act exactly as you'd expect with a spool. i.e. stiffen front = loose front traction, loosen front = more front traction, etc, but I haven't seen anyone else mention changes that didn't mesh with the standard rules.
I was thinking my next step was to try more rear toe and softer springs all around. Any advice?
07-26-2010, 06:40 PM
If youre using the soft plastic kit shims/clips for toe adjustment/suspension mounts, then that is likely the culprit for problems 2 and 3. Use aluminum washers and that should do the trick. 
07-26-2010, 08:18 PM
A few setup questions for the experts:
1) According to the instructions, the S/M/L shims are 1/1.5/2 degrees respectively. When I used a medium and a large shim on the rear and threw it on a setup stand, it looked like both sides have 3 degrees of toe. All my parts are suspension parts are stock TC5R. Are people actually measuring this? Is there something else wrong with my car that I just haven't located? Seems odd that they line up perfectly but just not at the angle I expect on both sides.
2) Has anyone had problems with inner hinge pins popping out? I had a few light board taps, and my front end spit out the inner hinge pin. Nothing is broken and the hinge pin still seems really straight when I roll it on a flat surface. Both front arm mounts seemed to swivel just enough to let go of the hinge pin. When I get back to the pits and check the screws, the screws still seem tight, so its not as though I didn't have everything tightened down. I check this before/after every run. Is this just a normal wear item that I probably just need to replace?
3) Based on the design of the arm mounts, it seems like the standard screw size on the rear arm mounts for the rear arms are way too short. I've replaced them with longer screws, but those screws keep getting bent. I'm using a 2mm ball head hex driver which doesn't seem all that strong so I don't think I'm overtightening it. Did I just end up with some cheap screws (random LHS supplied screws from Patriot RC or something of the like) or is this a design problem that everyone just lives with?
4) I'm running a Protoform R9-R on a parking lot with grape soda and my rear end still fishtails a bit while the front end is almost always planted. I know the body is part of the problem, as these forums are rife with complaints about too much steering and/or not enough rear traction. However, there are also a handful of people who rave about how awesome the body is, so I figured if I worked at setup, I could eventually make it work with some more chassis tuning.
I want to add more rear toe, but I wasn't sure what was a reasonable max amount I should consider before looking elsewhere.
I don't have the full setup on me but it's more or less the stock TC5R rubber tire kit setup (front spool/rear diff/etc) with the following changes:
front shocks stood straight up with 45 wt oil
rear shocks laid down with 35 weight oil
no rear sway bar (didn't seem to make much of a difference with or without)
I was trying to stiffen the front and loosen the rear, but when I tried using gold springs up front that didn't seem to make much of a difference.
From reading John Stranahan's thread (the other TC5 thread), he seemed to think some of the usual suspension mods didn't act exactly as you'd expect with a spool. i.e. stiffen front = loose front traction, loosen front = more front traction, etc, but I haven't seen anyone else mention changes that didn't mesh with the standard rules.
I was thinking my next step was to try more rear toe and softer springs all around. Any advice?
1) According to the instructions, the S/M/L shims are 1/1.5/2 degrees respectively. When I used a medium and a large shim on the rear and threw it on a setup stand, it looked like both sides have 3 degrees of toe. All my parts are suspension parts are stock TC5R. Are people actually measuring this? Is there something else wrong with my car that I just haven't located? Seems odd that they line up perfectly but just not at the angle I expect on both sides.
2) Has anyone had problems with inner hinge pins popping out? I had a few light board taps, and my front end spit out the inner hinge pin. Nothing is broken and the hinge pin still seems really straight when I roll it on a flat surface. Both front arm mounts seemed to swivel just enough to let go of the hinge pin. When I get back to the pits and check the screws, the screws still seem tight, so its not as though I didn't have everything tightened down. I check this before/after every run. Is this just a normal wear item that I probably just need to replace?
3) Based on the design of the arm mounts, it seems like the standard screw size on the rear arm mounts for the rear arms are way too short. I've replaced them with longer screws, but those screws keep getting bent. I'm using a 2mm ball head hex driver which doesn't seem all that strong so I don't think I'm overtightening it. Did I just end up with some cheap screws (random LHS supplied screws from Patriot RC or something of the like) or is this a design problem that everyone just lives with?
4) I'm running a Protoform R9-R on a parking lot with grape soda and my rear end still fishtails a bit while the front end is almost always planted. I know the body is part of the problem, as these forums are rife with complaints about too much steering and/or not enough rear traction. However, there are also a handful of people who rave about how awesome the body is, so I figured if I worked at setup, I could eventually make it work with some more chassis tuning.
I want to add more rear toe, but I wasn't sure what was a reasonable max amount I should consider before looking elsewhere.
I don't have the full setup on me but it's more or less the stock TC5R rubber tire kit setup (front spool/rear diff/etc) with the following changes:
front shocks stood straight up with 45 wt oil
rear shocks laid down with 35 weight oil
no rear sway bar (didn't seem to make much of a difference with or without)
I was trying to stiffen the front and loosen the rear, but when I tried using gold springs up front that didn't seem to make much of a difference.
From reading John Stranahan's thread (the other TC5 thread), he seemed to think some of the usual suspension mods didn't act exactly as you'd expect with a spool. i.e. stiffen front = loose front traction, loosen front = more front traction, etc, but I haven't seen anyone else mention changes that didn't mesh with the standard rules.
I was thinking my next step was to try more rear toe and softer springs all around. Any advice?
You will continue to struggle with the rear end running that body.....just my $0.02
07-26-2010, 08:52 PM
07-27-2010, 07:35 AM
Check your sway bars. You should run the black ones front and rear.
Your rear shock oil should be 25 and the front 35.
I would change the springs to blue in front and green in the rear.
Next you need to adjust your droop. I set the rear droop about 3 with the plastic droop tool that came with the car.
You didn't mention your speed controller or motor you are using.
If you have a adjustable speed controller, set to the lowest setting a first until you get the rear loose problem fixed.
I have found the correct droop will fix this problem.
As far the axles falling out, make sure when put them back the blue axle holders a snug up against the a-arms. There should be no slop in the arms.
Your rear shock oil should be 25 and the front 35.
I would change the springs to blue in front and green in the rear.
Next you need to adjust your droop. I set the rear droop about 3 with the plastic droop tool that came with the car.
You didn't mention your speed controller or motor you are using.
If you have a adjustable speed controller, set to the lowest setting a first until you get the rear loose problem fixed.
I have found the correct droop will fix this problem.
As far the axles falling out, make sure when put them back the blue axle holders a snug up against the a-arms. There should be no slop in the arms.
07-28-2010, 08:36 PM
so
So I'm hoping you guys can give me a hand on setup.
I'm running ROAR sportsman 17.5 rubber on low/med. bite asphalt and just trying to get this thing handling as best I can for me. Now I'm used to running no brakes and a 1 way, or some drag brake and 1 way so this is a definite change in my driving style. Additionally the chassis is balanced left to right and not tweaked at all and a tad on the heavy side.
Currently I would like to have a bit more off power steering as the car seems to push a little entering turns and steers slow off power, also rear gets a little loose on hard acceleration. On power the car is extremely stable and nice to drive.
Current setup
I'm running ROAR sportsman 17.5 rubber on low/med. bite asphalt and just trying to get this thing handling as best I can for me. Now I'm used to running no brakes and a 1 way, or some drag brake and 1 way so this is a definite change in my driving style. Additionally the chassis is balanced left to right and not tweaked at all and a tad on the heavy side.
Currently I would like to have a bit more off power steering as the car seems to push a little entering turns and steers slow off power, also rear gets a little loose on hard acceleration. On power the car is extremely stable and nice to drive.
Current setup
07-29-2010, 06:01 AM
So I'm hoping you guys can give me a hand on setup.
I'm running ROAR sportsman 17.5 rubber on low/med. bite asphalt and just trying to get this thing handling as best I can for me. Now I'm used to running no brakes and a 1 way, or some drag brake and 1 way so this is a definite change in my driving style. Additionally the chassis is balanced left to right and not tweaked at all and a tad on the heavy side.
Currently I would like to have a bit more off power steering as the car seems to push a little entering turns and steers slow off power, also rear gets a little loose on hard acceleration. On power the car is extremely stable and nice to drive.
Current setup
I'm running ROAR sportsman 17.5 rubber on low/med. bite asphalt and just trying to get this thing handling as best I can for me. Now I'm used to running no brakes and a 1 way, or some drag brake and 1 way so this is a definite change in my driving style. Additionally the chassis is balanced left to right and not tweaked at all and a tad on the heavy side.
Currently I would like to have a bit more off power steering as the car seems to push a little entering turns and steers slow off power, also rear gets a little loose on hard acceleration. On power the car is extremely stable and nice to drive.
Current setup
You might need to run heavier front oil with these shock locations.
07-29-2010, 08:27 AM
huh
Im was contemplating starting with subtle changes to droop and ackerman (perhaps going with integy steering blocks if need be)
07-29-2010, 08:45 AM
Moving the shock in on the front arm (a-hole) softens the suspension from a leverage stand point. Moving it on the tower changes the progression rate of it.
Also camber link 5 might be a little off, maybe try going to 3 front and rear.
Also camber link 5 might be a little off, maybe try going to 3 front and rear.
07-29-2010, 09:02 AM
yes
Yes, gosh-darnit. I am so easily confused by setup changes. Thanks Josh, I'm gonna give that a shot!
08-09-2010, 08:41 PM
to the top
i run the car and i am having a ton of fun
17.5 carpet foam
anybody try a gear dif yet?
i run the car and i am having a ton of fun
17.5 carpet foam
anybody try a gear dif yet?
08-09-2010, 08:46 PM
awesome
Josh, just wanted to say that I made the changes you mentioned above to the shock position and it made a huge difference in the steering! I now have a perfect balance of steering both on and off power. I didn't change the camber link yet as I wanted to see how much each change would help.
On another note, I am getting a ton of chassis roll and the entire left side of the chassis under the motor and the motor itself are scraping the ground heavily. I'm wondering if changing the camber link could help with that. I was considering changing the droop slightly.
Thanks again mate!
On another note, I am getting a ton of chassis roll and the entire left side of the chassis under the motor and the motor itself are scraping the ground heavily. I'm wondering if changing the camber link could help with that. I was considering changing the droop slightly.
Thanks again mate!
08-10-2010, 07:58 PM
I'm glad those changes worked for you.
Raising the links on the tower should help the chassis roll, my car ran the fastest with the front camber link all the way up and the rears in the middle.
Raising the links on the tower should help the chassis roll, my car ran the fastest with the front camber link all the way up and the rears in the middle.
08-12-2010, 01:26 PM
Has anyone found washers that will work well for adjusting the toe? What size, diameter and thickness should I be looking for? Any available online? Thanks!
08-12-2010, 02:41 PM
