41LikesRunning shorty's in a touring car
03-12-2020, 01:59 AM
#76
great answer and I agree. But i did a piss poor job of explaining.
Not necessarily pointed to DeserRat...
disregard batteries for a minute. In a conventional layout what is harder to tune on the car. Corners or straight line stop and start? My opinion is corners. 50/50 or 60/40 or whatever your weight distribution preference is you still have to control COG and Roll center (the chassis does). So the control of Roll center and COG in my opinion should compliment cornering more that it does acceleration and deceleration just because corner speed is hard.
If we look at shorty batteries it does two things. It allows you to move weight down (weights) and minimize the front to rear distribution of weight that is high on the chassis. So lets take the weights out of the conversation now because we can do the same trick with a slim pack or a shorty. A shorty will condense the mass that moves from front to rear which is more of an acceleration/deceleration thing and the chassis is pretty good at handling that. A slim pack is moved closer to the centerline of the chassis potentially minimizing roll.
Thats really the question. Would you rather have weight closer to the centerline for left right or extended front to rear less?
Im pretty sure the answer will be an opinion probably supporting shorties but I dont hear about anyone trying slim packs and in my mind I would think they would help in the corners.
Chassis have been getting narrower and mass has been getting pushed to the center or center line of a chassis. Is one better than the other? Slim versus shortie kind of fits into that progression.
Not necessarily pointed to DeserRat...
disregard batteries for a minute. In a conventional layout what is harder to tune on the car. Corners or straight line stop and start? My opinion is corners. 50/50 or 60/40 or whatever your weight distribution preference is you still have to control COG and Roll center (the chassis does). So the control of Roll center and COG in my opinion should compliment cornering more that it does acceleration and deceleration just because corner speed is hard.
If we look at shorty batteries it does two things. It allows you to move weight down (weights) and minimize the front to rear distribution of weight that is high on the chassis. So lets take the weights out of the conversation now because we can do the same trick with a slim pack or a shorty. A shorty will condense the mass that moves from front to rear which is more of an acceleration/deceleration thing and the chassis is pretty good at handling that. A slim pack is moved closer to the centerline of the chassis potentially minimizing roll.
Thats really the question. Would you rather have weight closer to the centerline for left right or extended front to rear less?
Im pretty sure the answer will be an opinion probably supporting shorties but I dont hear about anyone trying slim packs and in my mind I would think they would help in the corners.
Chassis have been getting narrower and mass has been getting pushed to the center or center line of a chassis. Is one better than the other? Slim versus shortie kind of fits into that progression.
03-12-2020, 04:56 AM
#77
To my mind, the big benefit of a shorty is getting the CoG lower, when compared with a std size pack.
That's of particular benefit when running on higher traction surfaces that don't use as much battery during a run.. i.e. indoor carpet. The handling benefits of getting the CoG down low outweighs the reduction in capacity and voltage drop issues. Outdoors, on larger asphalt tracks, swings back the other way.
That's of particular benefit when running on higher traction surfaces that don't use as much battery during a run.. i.e. indoor carpet. The handling benefits of getting the CoG down low outweighs the reduction in capacity and voltage drop issues. Outdoors, on larger asphalt tracks, swings back the other way.
03-12-2020, 07:53 PM
#78
This past week I was able to test between R1 LCG 5500 and R1 4000 shorty pack configurations at Yatabe Arena which has CRC Black carpet.
In Japan, we run 17.5T boosted class, not blinky.
After running about 9 practice sessions using R1 LCG 5500 I found the car to be right on the edge of grip rolling (sometimes I could see the tire lifting off the carpet). So I had to be very mindful of not throwing too hard in and driving hard out of the corner. It also was slightly slower when transition through tight technical sections.
Afterwards, I switched over the to the R1 4000 shorty pack and noticed several things. The car was noticeably different when transitioning through the same technical sections. I could easily throw the car into the corner without it showing any signs of grip rolling. I noticed the car was much easier to drive and it allowed me to setup the car faster for the next corner.
However, the plus side of the 5500 mAh gave me the voltage I needed throughout a 5 minute run. Whereas the 4000 I noticed a slight drop in voltage around 4:30 mark, but wasn't an issue.
R1 5500 mAh LCG
25 5:10.5
Avg 12.4
Best Lap 12.0
R1 4000 mAh Shorty
25 5:07.3
Avg 12.3
Best Lap 11.9
When running the 4000 mAh setup I was consistently running 25 laps around 5:10 mark. I couldn't do this easily with the 5500 LCG as I would have to really push the car hard at the point of it grip rolling.
There is a noticeable difference in handling and consistency when running a short pack under high traction conditions. Though my situation is unique when it comes to running boost, I wouldn't recommend it for blinky class.
Hope this helps.
In Japan, we run 17.5T boosted class, not blinky.
After running about 9 practice sessions using R1 LCG 5500 I found the car to be right on the edge of grip rolling (sometimes I could see the tire lifting off the carpet). So I had to be very mindful of not throwing too hard in and driving hard out of the corner. It also was slightly slower when transition through tight technical sections.
Afterwards, I switched over the to the R1 4000 shorty pack and noticed several things. The car was noticeably different when transitioning through the same technical sections. I could easily throw the car into the corner without it showing any signs of grip rolling. I noticed the car was much easier to drive and it allowed me to setup the car faster for the next corner.
However, the plus side of the 5500 mAh gave me the voltage I needed throughout a 5 minute run. Whereas the 4000 I noticed a slight drop in voltage around 4:30 mark, but wasn't an issue.
R1 5500 mAh LCG
25 5:10.5
Avg 12.4
Best Lap 12.0
R1 4000 mAh Shorty
25 5:07.3
Avg 12.3
Best Lap 11.9
When running the 4000 mAh setup I was consistently running 25 laps around 5:10 mark. I couldn't do this easily with the 5500 LCG as I would have to really push the car hard at the point of it grip rolling.
There is a noticeable difference in handling and consistency when running a short pack under high traction conditions. Though my situation is unique when it comes to running boost, I wouldn't recommend it for blinky class.
Hope this helps.
Last edited by EDWARD2003; 03-12-2020 at 10:48 PM.
03-12-2020, 08:16 PM
#79
Tech Master
Great info and i appreciate the answers. When mass is converted to energy and multiplied by distance it can get complicated to control. I should go model this in RC3 and see if it makes a difference.
03-13-2020, 12:42 AM
#80
I have set my car up for shorty but not yet run it.
My batteries are 5600mah full size at 290gr and shorty are 6000mah at 217gr.
my 5600 are right on the edge of dropping of at the end of a heat , even though my shorty is bigger mah are they going to drop off more being a shorty ?
My batteries are 5600mah full size at 290gr and shorty are 6000mah at 217gr.
my 5600 are right on the edge of dropping of at the end of a heat , even though my shorty is bigger mah are they going to drop off more being a shorty ?
03-13-2020, 03:24 AM
#81
I have set my car up for shorty but not yet run it.
My batteries are 5600mah full size at 290gr and shorty are 6000mah at 217gr.
my 5600 are right on the edge of dropping of at the end of a heat , even though my shorty is bigger mah are they going to drop off more being a shorty ?
My batteries are 5600mah full size at 290gr and shorty are 6000mah at 217gr.
my 5600 are right on the edge of dropping of at the end of a heat , even though my shorty is bigger mah are they going to drop off more being a shorty ?
03-13-2020, 12:39 PM
#82
Shawtys
I Snagged an Mugen for the Elecs it had.
Was gnna sell it till I realized I had extra elecs to get it going. 21.5 med grip assphalt Car. I stacked the WT. Next to the motor to keep wt on the Rear.
Have not Scale Yet but Feels Close.
Feels close is what I said about My T4 aswell.
T4 1st time on scales went 50-50,50-50. Amazing!
Gnna rain Here for daze...Need Shakedwn on MTC1
Was gnna sell it till I realized I had extra elecs to get it going. 21.5 med grip assphalt Car. I stacked the WT. Next to the motor to keep wt on the Rear.
Have not Scale Yet but Feels Close.
Feels close is what I said about My T4 aswell.
T4 1st time on scales went 50-50,50-50. Amazing!
Gnna rain Here for daze...Need Shakedwn on MTC1
03-14-2020, 04:41 PM
#83
I got to race with my shorty setup on a medium large outdoor track.
while the car handled amazing with the balanced setup and the extra weight that was needed mounted nice and low on the chassis the voltage drop off sucked completely.
it dropped way more than I expected it to even running a 600mah
it might be ok for some cars and tracks .
i was running 13.5 blinky touring car
while the car handled amazing with the balanced setup and the extra weight that was needed mounted nice and low on the chassis the voltage drop off sucked completely.
it dropped way more than I expected it to even running a 600mah
it might be ok for some cars and tracks .
i was running 13.5 blinky touring car
03-15-2020, 02:53 PM
#84
I have set my car up for shorty but not yet run it.
My batteries are 5600mah full size at 290gr and shorty are 6000mah at 217gr.
my 5600 are right on the edge of dropping of at the end of a heat , even though my shorty is bigger mah are they going to drop off more being a shorty ?
My batteries are 5600mah full size at 290gr and shorty are 6000mah at 217gr.
my 5600 are right on the edge of dropping of at the end of a heat , even though my shorty is bigger mah are they going to drop off more being a shorty ?
03-15-2020, 04:56 PM
#85
even if that was the case
from the math I did it’s only a couple of hundred milli amps difference and the shorty would still have more capacity
03-15-2020, 08:28 PM
#86
03-16-2020, 08:18 PM
#88
Tech Master
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