430LikesUnderstanding F1 Tuning: Let’s break it down
07-22-2019, 12:57 AM
#556
Tech Regular
07-29-2019, 11:01 PM
#557
Just finished a race with the handout tires being Sweep mediums and 24 rears. There was so much rear traction (or not enough front traction) where ANY setup change was ineffective. The next race is in a August with the same handout tires.
Question is, since nothing else took the push away, what can I do with the side links to get the car to turn? I can't remember what using the inner link (so the links make a V pointing to the front of the car) do. Or what shimming the links will do to get more steering.
Can someone please help and remind me?
Question is, since nothing else took the push away, what can I do with the side links to get the car to turn? I can't remember what using the inner link (so the links make a V pointing to the front of the car) do. Or what shimming the links will do to get more steering.
Can someone please help and remind me?
07-30-2019, 02:29 AM
#559
Asphalt. And since they were Arrowmax re-branded tires, I'm not sure which version. Probably V5 as they were similar to the handout tires at AOC race.
No change worked. We did everything with 3 cars. Well, almost everything. It was a very strange race day. We had every extreme condition covered from super hard to super soft and all of it had absolutely no change on the feeling of the car or lap times.
Now I'm hoping to understand the side link positions and heights and how they affect cornering. I believe I remember Vessel saying the V side link position generates a little rear turn in, but need confirmation. I also believe putting shims under the links changes roll center, but don't remember where to put the shims and how that change affects cornering.
Your suggestions are logical to me because I ended up with a super soft front with a super hard center for the last final, but this set up change did nothing to get the push out.
The only difference between my car and P1 was his gear ratio was lower to get him in and out of the corners a little faster. I'm looking to destroy him next round.
No change worked. We did everything with 3 cars. Well, almost everything. It was a very strange race day. We had every extreme condition covered from super hard to super soft and all of it had absolutely no change on the feeling of the car or lap times.
Now I'm hoping to understand the side link positions and heights and how they affect cornering. I believe I remember Vessel saying the V side link position generates a little rear turn in, but need confirmation. I also believe putting shims under the links changes roll center, but don't remember where to put the shims and how that change affects cornering.
Your suggestions are logical to me because I ended up with a super soft front with a super hard center for the last final, but this set up change did nothing to get the push out.
The only difference between my car and P1 was his gear ratio was lower to get him in and out of the corners a little faster. I'm looking to destroy him next round.
07-30-2019, 03:54 AM
#560
What I will do is move weight upfront. We tend to have around 10 gr in the front wing, 20 gr under the steering rack, some weights around the servo.
Also, it can help to put the lighter rear wing that you can find, Protoform one is small and light.
The V link set-up gives you some more mid-corner. I can not remember the effect of lifting them from the front or the rear.
Best regards
Javier
Also, it can help to put the lighter rear wing that you can find, Protoform one is small and light.
The V link set-up gives you some more mid-corner. I can not remember the effect of lifting them from the front or the rear.
Best regards
Javier
07-30-2019, 08:14 AM
#561
Adding v into the links will add roll steer, but it also creates more stability.
you probably are going to raise the links to take some grip out of the rear. On carpet this will help free the car up, so it should help kill some of that rear traction.
if you can raise the front upper arms at the kingpin, that may help you as well.
you probably are going to raise the links to take some grip out of the rear. On carpet this will help free the car up, so it should help kill some of that rear traction.
if you can raise the front upper arms at the kingpin, that may help you as well.
07-31-2019, 06:47 PM
#564
Drag brake set very high to like 30% so I could be very consistent at tight corner after very long straight. I was push braking on every corner to get the car to turn anyway.
Toe set to 2*. Initial turn in was OK or unnoticeable since the track was large and sweeping. Mid and exit was terrible.
When the front tires came off a run they looked square with a lot of rubber junk collecting on the outside edge. that part looked very rough like the tire was made out of plastic. I couldn't tell if that was my worn tire junk or collected from track. Asphalt was not applied with sugar water.
Thanks for all the info. I now have a plan and stuff to try.
Toe set to 2*. Initial turn in was OK or unnoticeable since the track was large and sweeping. Mid and exit was terrible.
When the front tires came off a run they looked square with a lot of rubber junk collecting on the outside edge. that part looked very rough like the tire was made out of plastic. I couldn't tell if that was my worn tire junk or collected from track. Asphalt was not applied with sugar water.
Thanks for all the info. I now have a plan and stuff to try.
09-23-2019, 03:15 AM
#565
Tech Regular
A quick question, when car accelerates, the rear shock lengthens or compresses?
Thanks!
Thanks!
09-23-2019, 07:31 AM
#566
09-30-2019, 11:25 PM
#567
Tech Regular
Number of balls in the ball diff.
Some spur gears allow two rows of balls, as many as close to 30 balls Some only 1 row, about 12 balls, such as the one on Xray X1.
I put 2 rows of balls in my Serpent 48p spur, but I still feel some slippage under acceleration. Some local fast guys say 2 rows will slip, 1 rows won't. I haven't try it yet because I use two rows of balls in my 1/12 pan car diff and it's perfect.
To my understanding, the more balls, the more contact surface area, so you don't need to tighten the diff as much.
Please share your thoughts.
Thank you.
Some spur gears allow two rows of balls, as many as close to 30 balls Some only 1 row, about 12 balls, such as the one on Xray X1.
I put 2 rows of balls in my Serpent 48p spur, but I still feel some slippage under acceleration. Some local fast guys say 2 rows will slip, 1 rows won't. I haven't try it yet because I use two rows of balls in my 1/12 pan car diff and it's perfect.
To my understanding, the more balls, the more contact surface area, so you don't need to tighten the diff as much.
Please share your thoughts.
Thank you.
10-01-2019, 02:47 AM
#568
Drag brake set very high to like 30% so I could be very consistent at tight corner after very long straight. I was push braking on every corner to get the car to turn anyway.
Toe set to 2*. Initial turn in was OK or unnoticeable since the track was large and sweeping. Mid and exit was terrible.
When the front tires came off a run they looked square with a lot of rubber junk collecting on the outside edge. that part looked very rough like the tire was made out of plastic. I couldn't tell if that was my worn tire junk or collected from track. Asphalt was not applied with sugar water.
Thanks for all the info. I now have a plan and stuff to try.
Toe set to 2*. Initial turn in was OK or unnoticeable since the track was large and sweeping. Mid and exit was terrible.
When the front tires came off a run they looked square with a lot of rubber junk collecting on the outside edge. that part looked very rough like the tire was made out of plastic. I couldn't tell if that was my worn tire junk or collected from track. Asphalt was not applied with sugar water.
Thanks for all the info. I now have a plan and stuff to try.
Suggestions already made to raise the front of the side links will help with rotation. I'd also consider flattening the angle of the centre shock.
A gear diff would also be on my list to try. Might be too much on the surface as you describe it, but they are effective at releasing a locked down rear end.
Hope that helps
10-01-2019, 02:55 AM
#569
Number of balls in the ball diff.
Some spur gears allow two rows of balls, as many as close to 30 balls Some only 1 row, about 12 balls, such as the one on Xray X1.
I put 2 rows of balls in my Serpent 48p spur, but I still feel some slippage under acceleration. Some local fast guys say 2 rows will slip, 1 rows won't. I haven't try it yet because I use two rows of balls in my 1/12 pan car diff and it's perfect.
To my understanding, the more balls, the more contact surface area, so you don't need to tighten the diff as much.
Please share your thoughts.
Thank you.
Some spur gears allow two rows of balls, as many as close to 30 balls Some only 1 row, about 12 balls, such as the one on Xray X1.
I put 2 rows of balls in my Serpent 48p spur, but I still feel some slippage under acceleration. Some local fast guys say 2 rows will slip, 1 rows won't. I haven't try it yet because I use two rows of balls in my 1/12 pan car diff and it's perfect.
To my understanding, the more balls, the more contact surface area, so you don't need to tighten the diff as much.
Please share your thoughts.
Thank you.
As you probably already know diff plates will tend to get grooves in them after running. A new row of diff balls would run on a new area of the diff plates, which may explain the slippage. So worth either changing the diff plates or using fine glass paper to grind them flat again.
Hope that helps
10-01-2019, 04:39 AM
#570
Tech Regular
Thank you! You have a very good point.
I should change to a new set of plates and balls.
Will report back any new findings this coming weekend.
I should change to a new set of plates and balls.
Will report back any new findings this coming weekend.
My understanding would be the same as yours: more balls in the diff = more contact area.
As you probably already know diff plates will tend to get grooves in them after running. A new row of diff balls would run on a new area of the diff plates, which may explain the slippage. So worth either changing the diff plates or using fine glass paper to grind them flat again.
Hope that helps
As you probably already know diff plates will tend to get grooves in them after running. A new row of diff balls would run on a new area of the diff plates, which may explain the slippage. So worth either changing the diff plates or using fine glass paper to grind them flat again.
Hope that helps